Orange Juiced

Doubront's season last year: Section 1 (Apr 9-June 2): 11 g, 6-2, 3.75 era, .715 ops, 1.35 whip, 9.5 k/9 Section 2 (June 3-Sep 7): 14 g, 4-6, 6.47 era, .894 ops, 1.66 whip, 8.7 k/9 Section 3 (Sep 8-Sep 29): 4 g, 1-2, 3.08 era, .555 ops, 1.10 whip, 10.6 k/9 Really good start and really good finish but a lot of stink in-between. This year, he pitched OK to start the year, had two bad starts in a row, and then has put up this line in his last 5 games: 29.0 ip, 25 h, 10 er, 15 bb, 28 k, 3.10 era, .706 ops, 1.38 whip, 8.7 k/9 The whip is a little too high (still walks too many for my taste), but he's been very effective. His main problem is the pitch count. His control still isn't what it needs to be, and even if he doesn't walk guys he still throws a lot of pitches, and can't seem to get past six innings. But as a #5 starter? This is tremendous. Costs the Sox nothing, is young and is improving, and has big-time swing and miss stuff. That's a lot to like about a #5 starter.

Not nearly as good as he is now, I wouldn't imagine. It clearly would be a "go for it now" kind of move for sure. But his Sept/Oct numbers are tremendous. I'm surprised you aren't bullish on those.

If the past is any way to gauge things, then yes, he will be. Go here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=leecl02&year=Career&t=p#month_extra) and look at his performance in Sept/Oct. He's a stud late in the season.

I get your logic, but Lee isn't a #2 or #3 starter. He's a bona fide ace. I mean, he's having a tremendous season now, but since 2008 his numbers are: 78-44, 2.86 era, 144 era+, 1.09 whip, 7.9 k/9 Average game looks like this: 7 1/3 innings, a little over 7 base runners, 2 er, more than 6 k's That's tremendous.

Well, he's not just a "rent-a-star". He's under contract through 2016, I believe. I don't know if I'd give up Webster for him. I like Webster a lot. But if, come trade deadline, the Sox really look like they are going to be a legitimate player, then yeah, I'd definitely consider it. I mean, a rotation of Lee (unquestionable ace), Buchholz, Lester, and, say, Lackey (who seems like a new man after his surgery) is extremely formidable.

So for Boston to get him, assuming they pay all of Lee's salary, what level prospect do you think would get the trade done?

Yeah I think you're right. So which 'Tek season do you think?

I'm wondering if Philly would have to kick in some cash to make a deal work. Lee's making a HUGE amount of money. I know he's terrific but if they expect some team to take on a monster contract *and* give them a really good package of players/prospects, that may be too high of an expectation. Maybe they can get back a good package but have to give up some $$ to make it work, or they don't chip in any $$ but don't get back as good a package in return, but I doubt they'll get the $$ relief AND a really good package.

I'm sorry...you must mean Lowe's 2000 season. His 2002 season he was one of the best starters in baseball. His 2000 season in relief was awesome.

Ok got it.

Pick one for the moment. Which is your preference?

In some ways, yes, but in other ways no. Schilling and Beckett had better K, K/9 numbers, W-L records, and WHIPs.

What about Victor Martinez in 2010? Here's Tek's best seasons compared with Victor's: Varitek 2003: .273/.351/.512/.863, 120 ops+, 25 hr, 85 rbi, 3.0 WAR Varitek 2004: .296/.390/.482/.872, 121 ops+, 18 hr, 73 rbi, 4.0 WAR Varitek 2005: .281/.366/.489/.856, 122 ops+, 22 hr, 70 rbi, 3.9 WAR Martinez 2010: .302/.351/.493/.844, 122 ops+, 20 hr, 79 rbi, 3.6 WAR Pretty even, right? Maybe 'Tek in 04 gets the nod because of the special season that was?

Done. Yeah he was great. But look at some of these other notable SP seasons: What do you think? - Schilling, 2004 - Eck, 1978 - Tiant, 1974 - Kinder, 1949 - Lester, 2010 - Beckett, 2007

Lots of pitching slots still available too, people. And lots of excellent candidates to fill those roles.

I changed Paps' to 2006, but I'm sticking with Ortiz' 2006 season. I know his ops+ was higher in 2007, but in 2006 he set the Sox' record for HR, so that's gotta be in there somewhere. But yeah, lots of good options there.

There are no CIF spots left. Petrocelli has taken that CIF spot, and Ortiz has the U spot. Only MIF need apply now. Actually, check that. Petrocelli in '69 was more of a SS than a 3b. So we can shift him to the MIF position. That leaves us with a CIF spot open. What say ye? Here are the candidates in my view: - Adrian Beltre 2010 - Mo Vaughn 1995 or 1996 - Kevin Youkilis 2008 (can play 1b or 3b) - Walt Dropo 1950 - Adrian Gonzalez 2011 - Vern Stephens 1949 - Mike Lowell 2007 What do you guys think?

I put in Paps' 2007 season, Cy Young's 1901 season, and Ortiz' 2006 season, where he hit 54 homers (it was a tough call between his 2005 and 2006 seasons). EDIT - changed Paps' season to his 2006 year.

Still have some offensive sub spots available, and lots of pitchers' slots. I am curious for that last MIF spot whether it'll go to Pedroia or Cronin (or maybe someone else, but those are my two leading candidates).

Ok, that's a terrific season. He hit more homers that year than some *teams* did. But man, that leaves out some incredible seasons for left-fielders, like: - Jim Rice, 1978 - Manny Ramirez, 2001-2005 - Mike Greenwell, 1988 But that's cool. Ruth gets a spot.

Incredible season, but Yaz didn't play RF in '67 or ever. He only played 7 games in RF his entire career consisting of 3228 games. He was the LF on that team, and someone already put Ted Williams' 1941 season up. I guess we could put Yaz' '67 season in a reserve OF slot. Wanna do that?

Super.

Thanks for this very helpful contribution to the thread.

I'll throw in another starting pitcher: Roger Clemens in 1986. 24-4, 2.48 era, 169 era+, 238 k, 0.97 whip, 8.4 k/9, plus a 20-k game vs. the Mariners thrown in for good measure.

This sure is a really fun time for the Red Sox and their fans. Not only are they in first place, but they're playing an exciting brand of baseball, have lots of homegrown players, and have a lot of quality players in the pipeline. Homegrown on the Major League Roster: 2b Pedroia CF Ellsbury OF Bradley, Jr. OF Nava 3b Middlebrooks (DL) OF Kalish (DL) SS Iglesias SP Buchholz SP Lester SP Doubront RP Tazawa And then here are some more prospects that I personally just find to be very exciting: SP DeLaRosa SP Webster SP Britton SP Barnes SP Ranaudo SP Owens SP Workman RP Wilson C Lavarnway C Swihart C Vazquez SS Bogaerts SS Marrero 3b Cecchini OF Brentz OF Jacobs Clearly not all these guys will pan out, but there's a lot of talent there. One guy I'm really intrigued by is Ranaudo. He was a stud in college, but struggled in the minors until this year. And now, at age 23, he is dominating AA: 59.1 ip, 6-1, 2.43 era, 0.98 whip, 9.6 k/9 So is it finally clicking for him? If he came up to the Red Sox as a bona fide starter midway through next year, at age 24, that would be pretty sweet.