Elktonnick

You mean Hoffa's body is somewhere on Yawkey Way:D

I don't think there is any disagreement between your view and mine on either DD.s departure from Detroit nor BC's departure from Boston.

I've said before that Farrell has to know that he is in a very uncomfortable( tenuous) position. I wouldn't put it past a character such as Hanley to try and take advantage of the situation and he may not be the only one. That's why it is imperative that the Red Sox have a good spring training and get off to a good start once the season gets under way. If they don't it could get ugly in that clubhouse real quickly. I'd feel a whole lot better if neither the Panda nor Hanley were around.

Surely not everyone???

Nothing hypocritical at all. People are fired for different reasons. Dave and Ben held different jobs in their respective organizations. Ben never had either the authority or responsibility that David held in Detroit who was the CEO. Ben had Larry overseeing his every move. Larry was between Ben and the principal owner, John Henry There was no one between David and Mitch llitch. Ownership simply believed that Ben was not qualified to assume the role that Dombrowski now has. Only the future will tell if any owner thinks Ben is qualified to assume such a role. You hold the view that Ben could have gotten such a job if he had only interviewed for it. I don't I do think he'll get a subordinate role, We see who is right.

To put it another way once you take a position nothing will change your mind.

Reportedly they are trying to trade him but who would want him? And, at what price?

I still want to know who gets Jeremy Kaperstein's yellow headphones, Larry?

Absolutely

I also believe that Dombrowski coming to Boston had been in the works well before DD was released. I like you see this all coming about when LL decided either to step aside or was pushed. It has been well reported the JH has zero people skills so it is no wonder that he would want some one like DD who he had worked with before to in effect take LL's place "running" the Red Sox.

I didn't mean it to be offensive or demeaning but you have a very strong point of view.

Dombrowski situation in Detroit is irrelevant to Cherrington's in Boston. For the record I believe Cherrington was fired because Lucchino left. My opinion is that Cherrington was more a Lucchino protege (if that's the right word) than a Henry or Werner. Once Larry was going to move on, Henry simply didn't have confidence that Ben could do the top Baseball Ops job without a strong personality like LL overseeing him. The chain of events seem to bear that out. People get fired for different reasons. Dombrowski's was CEO and had more authority in Detroit then Ben had in Boston. One could surmise that DD could have been released in Detroit as a mutual parting of the ways so he could accept the Boston job. The fact the Dombrowski was out of a job only two weeks is just too coincidental. Or Dombrowski could hve been "fired" because after so much time together he and the owner got sick of one another. Ben isn't totally incompetent. He just doesn't have the requisite competency to do the job that Dombrowski now has. That isn't just my opinion but obviously John Henry's as well.

lol

The Speier article was written in May of 2013. The part I quoted was the first of three parts. I haven't had a chance to read the other two yet. I think part of the rationale of the piece was Henry Werner and Lucchino wanted to rebut some of what was written in Shaughnessy's book on the Francona firing

You are right. Speier later in the article I posted an excerpt from above quotes a former associate as saying that Henry has no leadership or interpersonal skills. I think that explains a lot.

In 2013 Alex Speier wrote a lengthy piece on Red Sox ownership which is a fascinating read. Here is a lengthy excerpt. HOW DECISIONS ARE MADE: WHERE ARE THE OWNERS INVOLVED? At an operational level, one can characterize six different levels of decisions in the organization, some of which require ownership input, some of which do not. First level: A decision that can be implemented without further discussion with bosses. For instance, the hiring of someone in ticket sales won't be vetted through Henry or Werner. The Red Sox can implement such a hire without ownership involvement. Second level: A decision about which owners are told as a kind of fait accompli. For instance, if there is a sponsorship agreement negotiated by Kennedy, he will tell Henry, Werner and Lucchino, though their input won't be necessary. Third level: A decision about which owners are informed and given a heads-up before it is finalized. A lower-level trade, for instance, might feature an opportunity for ownership consent and input before it is finalized. Still, this might be an area of limited input. Fourth level: A decision on which the owners' opinions will be sought at the outset before moving forward. For instance, ticket pricing decisions necessarily will involve ownership feedback at the outset (rather than a rubber stamp) before moving forward. Fifth level: Collaboration and involvement from the outset. The trade between the Red Sox and Dodgers last August represented a notable and significant demonstration of such a case. The conversation started between Dodgers president Stan Kasten and his Red Sox peer, Lucchino. From the outset, and throughout the entirety of the deal, it necessarily involved not only the entire baseball operations department but also the full attention of the ownership group. Sixth level: Ownership suggest or initiates a program for the club and the front office executes it. Often times, these ownership-directed programs (in the case of the Red Sox) will relate to charitable undertakings, such as Werner's Run to Home Base. The instances of ownership-mandated baseball operations decisions are virtually non-existent. Indeed, the instances of owner fiat are virtually non-existent, in part because of the philosophical commitment on the part of the organization to collaboration and consensus-building. A few years ago, the book "The Wisdom of Crowds" circulated through all levels of the organization to underscore the notion that widespread, rigorous debate among many people with different perspectives yields demonstrably better outcomes than decisions made with a narrower input base. Virtually all of the decision-makers in the Sox -- from the owners to the staffers in various departments -- embrace that vision. And so, there are rarely mandates. There are ideas put forth, but there's an expectation that people will be open to changing their mind based on dialogue with colleagues. Perhaps that explains why there are rarely dictates emanating from Henry or Werner. The emphasis is more often on dialogue than commands. Lucchino characterized the function of the Red Sox ownership group as one of offering "advice and consent," though with the caveat that such a default role on questions facing the organization "does not preclude the occasional suggestion or question or exploration." It's a model that the owners view as having been the basis for considerable success over the first eight seasons of their tenure, and one that they believe can continue to work going forward.

With a title! Sort like being President of Italy. Gets to live in big house, in Larry case he gets to watch games from the executive suite.

Is that a question or an opinion?

Leaving Boston was probably Ben's right move and one I may have done myself if I had been in his position. But make no mistake about it, Ben was fired. Henry just did it in such a devious way that it gave him "plausible denial" as we used to say.

Dombrowski is President of Baseball Operations. If you check the Red Sox front office website it lists the following: Principal OwnerJohn W. HenryChairmanThomas C. WernerPresident/Chief Executive OfficerLarry Lucchino EXECUTIVE/FRONT OFFICE Executive Vice President/Chief Operating OfficerSam KennedyExecutive Vice President/Business AffairsJonathan GilulaExecutive Vice President & Senior Advisor to the President/CEOCharles SteinbergExecutive Vice President/Corporate Strategy & General CounselEd WeissFinancial Advisor to the President/CEOJeff WhiteSenior Advisor/Baseball ProjectsJeremy KapsteinSenior Advisor/Strategic PlanningMichael PorterVice President/Business DevelopmentTim ZueVice President/Corporate Strategy and Special CounselDavid BeestonSenior Business Development ManagerKurt ZwaldRed Sox Rewards CoordinatorAnne Marie RoweSpecial Assistant to the Principal OwnerSylvia MoonSpecial Assistant to the President/CEODan Rea IIISpecial Assistant to EVP/COOStephen KelleyExecutive Assistant to the President/CEOFay ScheerExecutive AssistantsCaitlin O'Reilly, Barbara Bianucci, Jackie Dempsey, Claire Durant, Caitlin SullivanExecutive Personal AssistantBrienne Hart BASEBALL OPERATIONS President of Baseball OperationsDave DombrowskiSenior Vice President/General ManagerMike Hazen so you can see that on paper Larry has the same job he had before.

There is a distinction between being fired from an organization and being fired from a position but remaining with the organization. The Japanese do this. We do it too especially in government where civil service rules make it extremely difficult to remove people from the payroll. We find a position where the employee will have less responsibility. Some may use the term demotion but the person was fired from their previous position. This is what happened to Ben. He was fired from his previous position which was re titled. Ben couldn't take the humiliation of accepting a job with less responsibility so he left. Henry may have foreseen this but it really doesn't matter the effect is the same. Of course Ben will find another job in baseball. If he swallows his pride he'll find a job sooner rather then later. Ben is qualified for many jobs in baseball. I agree with you, however, that being the President of all baseball operations, the nbr1 baseball job in a franchise, just isn't one of them.

Jeremy Kaperstein sitting behind home plate with his yellow headphones was the evil genius behind it all. He had to go!

Is being "less" fired sort like bring a little bit pregnant rhetorically speaking?

I can see how you would think my statement was misleading if you also think that Henry was premature in firing Ben.You don't wish to have anything upset your world view.

Can you unring a bell?