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You would think these guys would not want to repeat the start of last season. We keep pointing to September and musing over what might have happened without the September collapse. The real message of warning for the 2011 Sox was the miserable ST followed by the awful start to the regular season that they had. Anyway whatever attitude they came out of that ST with, whatever they were or were not prepared to do, they could hardly win a game through that stretch. While I am sure we were all hopeful still at that point, that start should have been the dead giveaway that the 2011 team was in very serious trouble. A slow start is one thing. When you can't hardly even win a game that is something else again. When crunch time came later in the year, they toppled like the house of cards that they were, having never shown the fortitude to come back in games when they were behind by the 7th inning. At any rate as I said at the top, you would think they would want to avoid that again at all costs and would appreciate a ST that might actually prepare them to play regular season baseball.

I expect that Ortiz having earned a reputation for pouting the Sox lost their nerve against the potential for his going into a blue funk. The arbitration hearing would have forced the Sox to describe what Ortiz is not. Having already invested $12.5M into him, I am guessing they decided that another $2M was not worth the trouble. I do agree however that the whole thing smacks more of PR than anything else.

I don't know about ST conditioning having much to do with what happens in September of any year. In the first place ST is not long enough to get in condition. Players need to show up in condition and then hone their baseball skills in ST. Then they need to stay in decent shape throughout the season without working so hard that they run out of gas. There are good many things that V will change. It already sounds like he is going to run a tougher ST. But in baseball conditioning is still the responsibility of the player. Either he shows up ready to go or he does not. Either he takes decent care of himself through the season or he does not. Last year as an example many players gained weight during the season! They gained so much weight that they were noticeably bigger during the season than when the season started. Pretty hard thing to do when you think about it but a good many of our guys managed to pull it off.

My prediction for Salty is that he is going to have the most forgettable career of any Boston catcher in recent memory. He will however be our Mr. Adequate until Lavarnway is ready to be our everyday catcher.

I am really hoping that Lavarnway comes on and improves at a rate that ultimately gets him to the top of the depth chart for Sox catchers. Salty is a decent catcher but I don't think he is going to improve much from where he is now. Lavarnway appears to me to have more natural ability and much more upside. I just think his catching instincts are better than Salty's and he appears to have a bit more athleticism in his game as well. Hence I think he has more upside than Salty has. There is no question in my mind which one is quicker. Lavarnway moves around home plate much more gracefully than Salty does. Salty should be able to hold the fort for now anyway.

You can find the whole interview on the internet. While Adrian downplayed the chicken thing with his comment that "people have to eat" he goes on to say that the team needs to remember what happened in 2011 and "play hard" for every run scored and every run scored against. Adrian commented that "we did not play good baseball" and "did not get our pitchers enough runs and did not prevent enough runs". Adrian appears to be talking about effort here, not talent. I could tell that Storm believed that was the gist of his response as well and she did not pursue it farther. As for his condition he reiterated his comment from last year that his shoulder is 100% but that he did "fatigue" at the end of last season. It is "a long season" and "something you have to play through" where his last comments in this interview on his 2011. AGain the whole interview is not hard to find so please do feel free to watch/listen to the whole thing.

I get this every once and awhile but not to often....thank God! Will get it in other places if it happens to be C4 or C5 that are acting up on me at a particular time.

I think they did Beckett the day after opening day. I did not remember the exact date they did Gonzalez. It is transparent anyway. Nobody is really fooling anybody waiting till the eleventh game. The problem for anybody wanting to contest doing it this way is that there is no binding agreement to extend until it becomes official. Somebody wanting to contest doing it this way, would have to point to some stipulation in the preliminary agreement that binds one party or the other or both parties. So for example, in the case of Gonzalez (again I can not remember exactly how long after opening day the extension was made formal) if Adrian concluded that he was really worth Ryan Howard money ($25M per just before the Gonzalez extension had been formalized) he could have thrown a monkey wrench into the deal and asked that the Sox meet the $25M that Howard was getting. There was nothing that actually prevented Gonzalez from pointing to that contract and saying I want that and nothing in writing demanding that the Sox give it to him. But it would have been a sticky situation because Adrian could probably have made a good case for getting Howard money. So the team actually accepts some risk in all of this as well. Both parties accept some risk because there is nothing formally binding them to the extension.

Seabeachfred, notice I wrote that it put Oswalt "about one step on the ladder above Wakefield". I think you believe that I wrote that it put Oswalt one step on the ladder below Wakefield.

Actually I think the wording in the piece you are quoting is confusing. Probably just poorly written. Notice how at the top of the piece the author talks about what would have happened if the Sox had made the contract official "prior to opening day". At the bottom of the same paragraph the author talks about the result for having made the contract official "after opening day". I actually think the author has it right at the bottom of the paragraph but almost right at the top of the paragraph. I think the Sox had to wait till the day after opening day baseball but did not have to wait any longer than that to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish. I am not sure if you can cut it finer than the day after opening day and still accomplish what you intend. It is my recollection that every time the Sox have done this with an extension, they have waited till the day after opening day to make the extension official and have not cut it any finer than that. I am not sure if you could actually cut it any finer than that.

Well if Muggah was taking my comment verbatim and overlaying it on what he believes Sox management expectations to be I did identify it as my "minimum" expectation. The Sox did not bring V in here with the expectation that he would bring the Sox a ring this year. I don't even think they believe it likely that V will be here for very long. They brought him here with the expectation that at a minimum he would have a positive impact on the underlying issues that I believe were considered an embarrassment to the organization as a whole. I don't know what the organization expects for performance for the team that they have so far built for 2012. However, I do think at a minimum they don't want to see this team touch any of last year's behavior with a ten foot pole. Josh Beckett comments that fans should have the right to expect better behavior along the lines of meeting some expectations as a team. It seems to me that Josh believes that some players should still be entitled to their individual benies regardless of how well or poorly the team is doing. Further Josh contends that the real problem was that the behavior was leaked to the media not the behavior itself. He then went on to sight the now famous drinking sessions of the 2004 team as an example of his expectations for what fans and the media know and when they know it. To me, Josh misses the point here. The 2004 "team" won the world series. That is the biggest difference between the 2004 team and the 2011 team. Won the world series vs. biggest collapse in baseball history. The other place where Josh misses the point in my view is that it is rare to have a team that is inherently united in a way that does not result in elements of the team being polarized off into the entitled vs those that are not entitled. It appears to me (obviously from the outside looking in) that in 2011 privileges and benies became a domain for an entitled few that insisted on maintaining those benies and privileges regardless of how the "team" was performing. You can't have guys acting as if they still deserve their benies because their ERA is XYZ or their batting average is ABC. It can never be "I am doing my job as an individual player" so don't talk to me about what else I should be doing to help the team win. Lastly and I think here again Josh misses the point, in all likelihood certain behaviors of the 2011 team were leaked because it appeared to be behavior that was inherently flawed for that team in that circumstance. Don't condemn the messenger Josh. Be enough of a pro and a veteran to understand where the team you are playing for is and when your behavior has a negative impact. I am glad Josh showed up early for camp but I worry about him particularly. His comments, only a few days old now, seem to suggest that he still does not get it and is still unwilling to yield to the needs of the team as a whole. Further his comments suggest that he is going to be looking for "rats" in a year when this team and individuals on it are going to be under a microscope because of what happened last year. Ya' got better things to do Josh than police the clubhouse for rats. That is not leadership. Ya' wanna' do something worthwhile? Police your own behavior and the behavior of any other player that appears to be putting himself above the team as a whole.

The point is we are thin in some critical areas....surely thinner than we want to be. The Sox may be happy with where they are but I think we will be and are less pleased. However I still think the team will be interesting and competitive as long as some of the jackass behavior from last year's team does not rear its ugly head this year and some guys raise up out of the cadre of young guys that they have and hopefully have to bring up to play. I am more interested in them than the scrap heap bunch. Seeing how Bard and Aceves meet the challenge thrown at them should hopefully be fun as well. If they come out and play every game hard this year and play for team goals as opposed to whining about their individual stats or finding some way to check out early then they will at least meet my minimum expectations. That does not sound like much but considering the fact that they missed that mark last year, I would have to consider that an improvement.

Lets face it, a ton of stuff is going to have to go right for the Sox to have a shot. However if they do bring some of these young guys from the system up this year, this team should be fun to watch. Being a preseason juggernaut contending for the ring is fun but it can also be tedious. Every lost game can become a disappointment and a bone of contention. Would it be so bad if were were in a position this year with young players that were kinda' more potential than reputation? I would love to see some of these guys come up and perform well for us and for once have the kind of season where we surpassed expectations instead of not meeting them.

I think the one thing that would send Bard off to the pen sooner rather than later is if he starts slowly AND losses confidence in his ability to pull this off. We have seen opinions and even voiced them here that being a SP is not something that he has necessarily been drawn to up to this point. If he starts slowly but remains confident and enthusiastic about the possibilities as a starter then I think they will keep him there even with a slow start. Hopefully that will not be an issue because it would likely help Bard immensely to have a good start. Knocking on wood as I speak.

I have become more pessimistic regarding Oswalt upon learning that his back problem is actually degenerative discs. Making all of his starts in August is hardly a recommendation under the circumstances. This is not something that gets better over time. It is something that you manage over time and the fact that he has been using cortisone so early in his life and extensively to boot is not at all encouraging. I would suspect that every year he has pitched with this particular malady is another year that he has bashed away at those discs. Plus you end up adding up what has been happening with Oswalt looking for a rational. Does it make sense that Jackson gets $10M from the Nationals and Oswalt, a pitcher with his record of accomplishment cannot get either the Cards or Rangers to even consider moving somebody aside so that he can have a #5 spot in the rotation? Does it make sense that he apparently cannot get anybody to offer him more than $5M and that he has attracted so few teams to offer him anything to date? Many of us have been saying that something does not smell right for weeks now. For my part I just did not have anything that I could put my finger on other than thinking that teams were concerned about his back's health all be it somewhat nebulously. Once I found out that the heath problem was degenerative discs at least to me a good deal of what has been reported about offers that have been put before him finally made some sense. While I only just found out it was degenerative discs, teams obviously would have known this and it appears to me that they are taking it into consideration. In fact if I am not mistaken was it not reported that what offer the Sox had made to Oswalt had been withdrawn? The Sox do not need a guy that can bend over the wrong way one morning and be on the shelf for a month or longer. I certainly could not pencil him in as a #4 anywhere under the circumstances and the chances are pretty good that he could not even give you the 150 innings or so that you would expect from a #5. Before this I have contended that I thought some NL team would come out of the woodworks late and sign him for something around the $5M that has been tossed about for weeks now. Now, knowing this I am more inclined to think he will not get an offer till teams see what they have in ST. If the #5 somebody has been planning on does not seem to be able to fill the bill and that team does not have somebody that can move into that spot then I think he will get an offer, probably lower even than the $5M that has been thrown around up until now. In my view it will take that sort of event for some team to take a shot at giving him a rotation spot. That puts him about one step on the ladder over Wakefield if that provides some perspective and that might be generous.

There is a part of me that hopes that Sox are actually backing themselves into a corner on Iglesias coming up this year. While it is something of a gamble he has got to get up here sometime and I would prefer to see him up sooner rather than later if it is possible. By all accounts he "could" end up being the kind of defensive shortstop that makes you forget that he perennially occupies the bottom of the batting order. It is at least a possibility that his hitting liability might be overshadowed enough by his defense. Might be hard for the "Bostons" to like a guy like that but when guys like that do come along, they can be very exciting to watch.

Have not tried decompression myself as yet. I have so far been able to keep the number of recurrences down by keeping my core in decent shape so that part of my body is not making life more miserable for another part of my body and by doing what I can to keep my weight down. While I have not been able to street run or jog for a long time now as it is just to much of a pounding for my back to take, I can treadmill and three seasons of the year I bicycle virtually every day. So far, keeping the core strong, the weight down and learning how to lift things, and how to bend from the knees and not from the waist I have been able to avoid unmanageable numbers of recurrences. Every once and awhile I will forget that I should not bend from the waist and I will be leaning over as I realize I have zinged myself again and have some pain penance to do as a result. One of the more stupid feelings you can have is leaning over having forgotten not to bend from the waist and realizing that just like that....in a nanosecond, the damage is already done and knowing that in a couple hours it is time to start your pain penance.

The problem with degenerative discs and pitching at a major league level from what I can see is what happens when you do really ding them. He has already been getting cortisone shots when he has been ailing and that is not a good treatment plan long term. Clearly he has been using them because they have been necessary for him to be able to get back out there on the mound and pitch but the more cortisone shots you get and the longer the period of time you use it, the worse things get. I don't find the fact that he has already been using them extensively encouraging at all. Once you ding the discs as I suspect you are aware, you are left with a major league back spasm as the muscles of your back struggle to pull the vertebrae off the discs that are now basically screaming in pain. So there is the back spasm that you need to calm down before you can even walk without being bent over again and the discs need to back down off of that screaming in pain level. I would bet that Oswalt has already been doing everything he can do including decompression sessions to stay on the mound and given the amount of time he misses, it has not been enough. So much does begin to make sense in light of this issue. Can I blame the Cards for not being willing to allocate a rotation spot to Oswalt? Absolutely not! Likewise for the Rangers. Do the $5M offers make sense? If anything they might be a little high. The only thing that does not fit is that Detroit offer at $10M early on. I did not believe that Detroit offered him $10M when I heard it the first time and I did not believe Oswalt would have turned up his nose at an offer of $10M from Detroit had they offered it.

My thoughts exactly 700. I hate to say it but the other thing that Oswalt's degenerative discs says is that this entire off season discussion about the Sox making a real effort to sign another starting pitcher has been a joke. This is not a criticism of the Sox FO from the perspective of exposing their true intentions. I would not be making my intentions blatantly known if I were them either. However I can no longer take seriously any effort on their part with regard to a SP. To me, this means the last SP in the FA market that was a real possibility was Jackson and considering what they could have done, possibly even as far back as Berhlie. Oswalt is not help for this team and realistically he was never an option that mattered. Inserting Oswalt into this rotation would not have given us anything to cheer about. Going after Berhlie hard was probably something that would have taken more courage than the Sox have shown lately but in truth that is likely what they would have had to do at least as it relates to FA pitchers. That would surely have meant passing on an Arbitration offer to Ortiz and that seems like it would have taken more courage than they have exhibited of late as well. A multiyear deal for Berhlie probably would have made more sense than trying to drag Jackson over here for something like $10M for one year. I could not see any possibility of the Sox offering Jackson something like $10M for one year. By then Ortiz arbitration offer had already been made and while we can muse about the Sox potential to have both offered Ortiz arbitration and signing a pitcher like Jackson, clearly Sox Management has decided to make additional expenditures an issue this year. It matters not the reasons why it is hard at this point to deny that the Sox have made it an issue. I suppose there is still the chance that they trade for somebody. However that trade window is not very wide. There is a period where teams will consider making changes and then as the season gets closer that window closes and it does not realistically open again until you get close to the trading deadline. As unlikely as it would have seemed to some a few months ago, it appears that the Sox are prepared to at least go into ST with either Bard or Aceves definitely making it to the rotation, possibly both which they have claimed to be ready to do. It is either that or one of the guys off the scrap heap distinguishes himself. But it would be a total surprise to have two of those guys off the scrap heap make it to the rotation. However unless something changes, the first injury to a rotation guy will result in one of those guys being inserted into the rotation even if he is not there on opening day.

Before anybody gets the wrong idea, I don't want to suggest that there has not been advances in disc surgery during the last 20 years or so. However it is still at least in my estimation a very risky business as pumps suggests and the chances are still pretty good of not being much better off for having endured a very painful surgery with a long recovery period than if just continued with much less invasive efforts to limit the recurrence of pain and the depth of pain when you do have a recurrence.

Yes you are right pumps. I have answered that same question for myself the very same way as I have had degenerative discs in C4 and C5 and L4 and L5 for a number of years now. In Oswalt's case he may have hammered those discs so badly, especially if he has had years of cortisone shots that surgery may be more of an option for him than it is for me. I can go years without having my discs flare up and so have learned to live with them without surgery. However I have not been trying to pitch at a major league level either. I would hazard a guess that while Oswalt is much younger than I am, I would be willing to bet there is a very good chance that his discs are in much worse shape than mine. You are also correct in your comment that in many cases those that undergo surgery are no better off than those that do not undergo surgery and are sometimes worse off. However, It would not be a complete surprise to me that when he does get to be my age, he may likely be in much worse shape and enduring far worse and more frequent bouts with pain than I have. We who suffer from degenerative discs often have received the same advice from neurosurgeons. Avoid surgery for as long as you can tolerate the pain and for as long as you can keep the pain incidents to a tolerable level and hope for the day when the surgery becomes something of a Dr. McCoy, Star Trek kind of affair with the good doctor waiving his surgical thingy over your back and Walla', back pain gone.

In truth if I had known that Oswalts back problem was actually degenerative discs, then I would have recommended that doing almost anything with our time, like basket weaving for example would have been time better spent than musing about his coming here or more importantly coming here and being effective. If he has been getting cortisone shots for that long a period of time I suspect that while helping his pain it would have actually accelerated the pace of his failing discs. Tells you something about the draw of major league millions. I doubt that we will admire the way he walks down the street 20 years from now although I would also not be surprised if he does actually undergo surgery once he retires. He has probably stressed out those discs much worse than any of us would under normal circumstances.

If the problem is degenerative discs in his lower back then there is no way that his making it through a season is anything more than a major roll of the dice. You can learn to live with degenerative discs while avoiding surgery. There are things you learn how to do a certain way or things you just don't do. However I doubt that pitching at a major league level sits on the safe side of the line. Maybe he is headed toward retirement after all. I can definitely see the Sox not really having interest under the circumstances and almost wonder that they would even offer him $5M given the number of pitching bodies they have put on the shelf in the last few years. With that sort of problem, Oswalt may not even make it out of ST.

iortiz....I think this is a case of immovable object meets irresistible force. The Sox appear unwilling to budge in any meaningful way relative to what was reported as their opening gambit. That is simply not enough money to motivate Oswalt in Boston's direction. I suspect at this point that just the points you raise are also having an impact on the Sox and their willingness to raise their offer. I actually do believe that Oswalt has little interest in pitching in the AL East and while he could possibly be swayed in that regard I believe he would demand something of an AL East surcharge to pitch here. that makes it even less likely that the Sox have a real shot at him. I still do believe it likely that the team that signs him has not even been mentioned yet relative to Oswalt. At some point I believe that some NL team that is acceptable to Oswalt will make him an offer similar to what he has been offered so far, maybe even a little less and that will end up being the offer he takes. If that is an offer of $5M then I would think that it would take an offer of at least $8M for the Sox to get him. Just opinion of course but have consistently said the same thing for weeks and don't see anything that would suggest things are any different now. One thing to remember is that just the DH alone makes pitching in the AL much more difficult than pitching in the NL. Add to that the difficulty of pitching in the AL East and I don't find it at all hard to believe that Oswalt at this point in his career wants no part of it. If what we have heard is accurate he has already turned down $10M to pitch for Detroit. I have mused that I think he has turned down some offer from Detroit but I would be surprised that the offer was $10M. If he truly did turn down $10M from Detroit then I would judge the chances that he is signed by the Sox even at this late date to be pretty slim.

It does not matter that we could have had both and in part that is my point. It only matters what the Sox do or do not do and until the Red Sox hire you or me or any one of us, what we think about what they could have done does not amount to a hill a' beans. These are worthy points for discussion here, but we all to often transcend what we do here to a point where it suggests that it has a bearing on what the Sox do. I have been saying that it does not matter the reasons why. It does not even matter whether the Sox have gone down this road because of the LT. What is obvious at this point is that the Sox have adopted a more restrictive approach to spending this year and as a consequence it does not appear that we are getting both or will get both. In light of that outcome, that we could have had both appears irrelevant.