iortiz

mmmm.... I'm not sure what you want to probe making that list and then compare each other player's WAR. I just find it worthless. As A700 said, you don't need to look at sabermetrics in order to know that Pujols, Gonzalez, Bautista, Votto, Cabrera, etc. are great players. Which one is better? Well, It depends on what you want to look at -- RBI, OPS, WAR, BA, 2B, RAR, etc., etc., etc. -- and still, I find it worthless, since you can go to the tables and figure it out Where I find it interesting the use of stats for example, are in criterial-situations, like judging whether Carl Crawford was a good signing or not by the the Red Sox, after and before the season. Regarding on this situation, I'd put for example the next question: why would you like to sign a player who would play/played at the middle/bottom of the order great part of the season (regardless you're plenty of LHHs) and who gonna cost you 142 M/7yrs --Sure, he put .296/.337/.444/.781 in his career in TB and had a 6.1 WAR in 2010 TB -- when you could sign a type-guy like Markakis who has even better BA/OBP/SLG/OPS after 6 years with the O's-- just saying a name --and who arguably would cost substantially less than Crawford and who could delivery decent numbers without all the risks associated in the transaction(financial, time, adaption, etc.) and mostly when your FA record at big tickets is horrible? -- maybe JH had a little bit of these arguments in order to say what he said about CC --. If you were the Phillis or SF you arguably could have a case, but would you have a case with the Red Sox? I'm not sure. In this case your arguments could come from advanced-stats and the way you see the game... But in the end, this is like religion or politics, nobody would be completely right at all. Sure we'd spend a lot fun, that's for sure. BTW.. As a fan? I liked CC before the season, these days? I'm not sure about him anymore. As a Owner? I would go for a guy like Markakis in order to play in the mid/bottom of the order and I'd better improve other areas like our pitching-depth/BP/rotation and even the farm.

I like stats (simple and advanced) and I believe that they are very supportive but as I said, they are not the panacea. My buddies love using advanced stats, and they actually use them very well. Nevertheless, sometimes they are terrible noticing some aspects (strategy and tactic) of the game while it is playing. Balance is the key. As I said, sabermetrics are not that difficult to use or apply, you just need to interpret and correlate well the meaning of the stats for a given situation, that's all. What I really find interesting in advanced stats is how you can create your own methods/models like Markov (simulate the impact of Each event) or Heipp ("plus-one" method) did with their estimators in Linear weight, for example. Anyway... I still like BA.

I envy you man! Got a lot of friends in Cancun! I love El Caribe Mexicano! Have fun! :thumbsup:

Anytime, I can help you with your Spanish my friend. I think that I'm pretty good at it.

I think that I don't explain myself well . Sure, I like RBI, OBP, OPS, etc. ... but BA is what I like the most since it isolates and rates one of the most incredible and toughest abilities in baseball and in all sports (to hit). But that's me!

welcome!

E1 is trying to to say that I said that; and I didn't even talk about this I said that RBI correlates better with runs scored by a team than OPS/SLG/OBP. that's all.

again, Who is talking about player value?. Show me where I'm talking about player value.

sorry man! my bad! but .... do you think that he is the worst pitcher in 2011? IMO, he is.

You were who said that "RBI are not strongly correlated with runs." and i said that it is not true. I already showed you. Sorry E1, I already made my point. I don't want to disrespect you but I can't find more elements in order to show, what I already tried showed you. and it is not what I was talking about either.

hahahahah E1, are u defending Lackey now? C'mon man! You don't even need to look at stats in order to make a call. He is terrible. IMO he is done!

E1, why do you like twist things? I'm just saying that RBI correlates better RS than OPS/OBP/SLG, I already showed you.

As I said, Unbelievable!

E1, RBI corralete better with RS than the other 3. It doesn't matter how you split it.

well, 1.- I never said the opposite. 2.- if this is a simple intrinsic meaning (formula) to you, you are a genius my friend. You can't correlate easily an event with that stat as u can do with BA. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/math/5/f/b/5fbadb7ed54cc46b2c363a26608537a5.png 3.- sure counting stats are raw, i just meant that BA is a raw PERCENTAGE/RATE stat in order to built OBP and OPS, thats all. 4.-... just saying . Seriously, my whole point is that I like the HIT EVENT/ABILITY isolated since the nature of its difficulty in order to be executed, that's all. I'm not saying that it is better or worse than others, each stat has a purpose and measure different abilities, and BA isolates the hit events/ability in a determined range of turns AB.

Yup, about SLG vs OBP at higher numbers; but if you want to correlate better RS, you should look at RBI, it definitely correlates better than OPS/OBP/SLG. Since, batting average: 1.- is a measure of a batter's success rate in achieving a hit during an at bat, 2.- has a simple intrinsic meaning between the event (hit) and the stat (number), 3.- is the raw material (that's what i meant with pure) for another advanced stats, 4.- determines the batting champ, is why I like it. IMO the most exiting thing to watch in a BB game is a hit, and according with sport illustrated magazine that ability is one of the most difficult executions to make in any sport (or the most if I remember well), and that primitive stat rates that incredible ability. so.... if i have to choose one and only one offensive stat, I would choose BA; But that's me.

ERA... You bet! , ... and then WHIP. For Hitters, BA. Maybe it is the most primitive stat in baseball, but it tells you if a player can really HIT; with power or not but HIT. Sure, OBP and OPS show you more abilities combined (discipline AB and power), but BA is pure!, that's why I rate it in a first tier. BTW, the OPS stat does not have a simple intrinsic meaning as BA does since the nature of its formula; One fault of OPS is that it weighs on-base average and slugging percentage equally, although on-base average correlates better with scoring runs. Statistics such as wOBA build on this distinction using linear weights, avoiding OPS' flaws. Magnifying this fault is that the numerical parts of OPS are not themselves typically equal (league-average slugging percentages are usually 75-100 points higher than league-average on-base percentages).

I don't blame 'em, JD is awesome :harhar: Seriously, is this a common practice in the majors? I mean, drinking just before or during the game? Really?

Bravo, Maestro!