SoxFanForsyth

It's his arm they are worried about not his glove at 3B, although I do wish they would at least see what he's got over there

No, what I provided was validation that I am not the only one who values 6 years of Betts higher than 2 years of Strasburg. If teams never made trades because of MLB time, no prospects would ever be traded. If I am waving pom poms, then so are Alex Speier and Dave Cameron, plain and simple. They are both extremely unbiased and plugged in more than any couch GM is on this site. And yeah, I was touting Bogaerts and only people on here who don't understand that he should have been in Salem, not Boston, are the ones giving up on him. Just because Bogaerts didn't come to immediate fruition doesn't mean that he's not going to, or that I, or anyone else who rated him extremely highly, was wrong about him. Betts for Strasburg, I would hesitate to do, and so would Cherrington, but I guarantee you that if Stras was available, and the Sox offered Betts alone, it would get done. Nobody is saying Betts, right now, is better than these pitchers. I'm saying that 6 years of Betts is likely to provide more value to this team than 2 of Strasburg or 1 year of the other guys. And let's not even talk about Hamels. If Amaro even mentioned Betts and not 'and we will eat 55mm of his 5/110' then it's a non starter.

Or maybe you're just smarter than the head of Fangraphs and one of the most plugged in best writers in all of baseball. Sorry. I'll go ahead and say no, you're not. No offense, neither am I, but you're absolutely wrong here.

Ok. I'm a homer. Then so is Dave Cameron of Fangraphs: And Alex Speier in a recent chat, when asked about trading Stras for Betts. Alex Speier: More seriously -- this is, I suppose, the type of move that makes sense to consider the top level of Sox' young chips (Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, probably in that order) whom the team would be most reluctant to deal. They'd only consider doing so for a superstar-caliber performer in his prime. Still, would you rather have two prime years of Strasburg for six of Betts, or either another pitcher (whether one of the free agents or a starter who was in a tier below Strasburg) and Betts? My inclination is to say that the only guy who'd be worth Betts for two years is Stanton. But, this is the sort of conversation that does make you go hmmmmm.... And I do wonder whether the Nats will make either Stras or Zimmerman available. So, huh, maybe I'm not such a Pom pom waving homer after all.

Cueto, Zimmerman, Shark all have 1 year left. Hamels is essentially signing a guy to a 5/110 deal. Betts, a potential star, the #11 BA midseason prospect (per BA if he was eligible) is an enormous overpay for any of those. If you don't think that the Nats would trade 2 years of Stras for 6 years of Betts, you're out of your mind crazy. They have an enormous hole at 2B, Betts was already a 2 win player in 1/3 of a season, is projected to be a 4-4.5 win player next season, and is cost controlled. I'm not sure you understand how valuable a 22 year old is with that kind of talent being shown at age 21.

Betts, by himself, would land Strasburg, would be an overpay for Cueto, Zimmerman, Samadzija, or Hamels. He would land Cashner or Tyson Ross alone. The only pitchers he wouldn't land (Sale, etc) aren't available.

He did say that we would need more than Betts to get an ace, which is laughable.

It's almost as if a player who plays multiple up the middle positions while having the ability to provide a 130ish wrc+ and strong base running is a bad prospect to Jackson.

'Not sure he can hack it in the infield' Rated as a strong defensive 2B by all the reports I've ever read (which is a lot). 'Not sure if he can cut it in the OF' Learned CF on the fly, posted a -0.1 UZR there. Basically average in his first ever exposure.

Oh that's how that works? Huh. If you don't play every position, you're a tweener. Or if you've got an MLB player locked up in your position, you're a tweener. That's a really strong case you have Jacko. Really strong. This might be your dumbest argument I've ever heard. I've seen you grasp at straws before but this? This takes it to a new level.

Look at BABIP. Holt: when he was hitting .300 (through 8/5) his BABIP was .370. Middlebrooks BABIP in 2012 was .335 (he's a slow guy and his k:bb ratio of 6:1 was always worrisome. His peripherals were always terrifying) Bogaerts BABIP was near .400 to start the year before he fell off the cliff. All of Betts peripherals are in line That

Just to be clear on Mookie: - He posted a 1.9 fWar last year. For offensive players, that would have been 5th on the Yankees (min 150 PA). And he played 52 games. - His fWar of 1.9 would translate to a 5.7 win player over 156 games. It was a small sample, but his peripherals were all in line with what he did in the minors with an appropriate adjustment (AAA k rate: 14.2%, MLB 14.6%; AAA BB% 12.3%, MLB BB% 9.6%; AAA BABIP .380, MLB BABIP .327). So he didn't flash in the pan with a .400 BABIP (a la Jesus Montero in 2011) and make his numbers look artificially inflated. - His DEF rating was at 0.6 but you can certainly expect that to increase significantly given that he was learning an entirely new position at the MLB level last year. So explain, please Jacko, how Mookie is a 'tweener' prospect because, frankly, that's as laughable as it gets. A guy who played for 52 games at a 6 win pace is a 'tweener'. And oh by the way, Mookie for Hamels is one of the worst trade ideas I have ever heard on this site. And that's saying a lot.

lol wut. Betts lands virtually any player available. He would be an excessive overpay for guys like Cueto, Shark, Zimmerman, etc. A deal of Strasburg for Betts straight up actually makes sense. This is complete Yankees jealousy of the Sox prospects.

His trade value has skyrocketed from the AFL. Gammons reported that some scouts like him more than Lindor of the Guardians.

Ervin Santana wanted 100mm last year. What'd he get? A 1 year deal at around $13mm. Just because a player WANTS something doesn't mean he'll get it. 6/120 will never, ever happen for Panda. He's probably getting an offer from the Giants of around 5/85 or 5/90 and the Sox will offer him 5/95 or 5/100. An overpay? Yes. But the supply of good 3B is extremely dry, so the demand increases significantly. This doesn't prohibit the Red Sox from signing pitchers by any means. In fact, the Sox priorities were "two SP and a LHH 3B". Panda is visiting Boston next week. Know what else is happening next week? The Red Sox ownership group is meeting with Lester's agent. Not Cherrington. The owners. I literally cannot remember the last time an ownership group met with a player for any team. It just doesn't happen. The Lester deal AND the Panda deal get done soon. And the Sox will also be trading for an arm soon too (I am still projecting Samardzija in a deal around Marrero).

Bring me Alex Avila. He's available via trade. His stock is way down right now. Bring him in, let him play 50-60 games, mostly vs RHP while Vazquez plays 110. He's a very good defensive catcher. His offense isn't very good, particularly vs LHP, but his defense is excellent and you pair him with Vazquez, that's a very strong defensive C. Probably can be had for next to nothing given that he's a FA after this season and they've publicly made him available.

Red Sox are "all in" on Pablo Sandoval and are currently "making a big push to sign him". http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/11861086/boston-red-sox-making-big-push-sign-free-agent-pablo-sandoval I'm all for signing Panda or HanRam. Don't care which one it is. Just give me one of them. Panda seems like a better fit because he's a true 3B and a LHH, so hopefully this comes to fruition soon.

Yeah, this came out last night per Gammons, but it's excellent news.

Need a LH power hitter. Give me the pop for the extra dollars and years. Panda the most logical fit to me.

Spud - I like where your head is at. Allen Craig played 246 G at 3B in the minors so it's not entirely new to him. Though he did post a .927 fielding percentage there, so he would need to start working on his defense now. Love this option. I also agree with you, he is a near lock for a bounce back this year. Offseasons don't get nearly enough credit for players success and when you have your offseason cut down because of a foot injury plus a deep October run (like Craig in 2013), it's not hard to expect some struggles the following year. A full, healthy offseason should get him to be the hitter he was with the Cardinals. His defense, though, is worrisome. Mookie, to me, is your starting RF. I love Victorino, I really do, but to count on him for anything more than 75-85 games is a fools errand. For that reason, I keep Mookie in the outfield. And to be honest, I trade Vic. I like Holt, but not as an everyday player. He may be the best backup super sub in the game. A Ben Zobrist type player that doesn't play everyday. I think that's the position that he thrives. I still really like Panda. Think Fenway would be a great park for him. Sox need that LH stick. And his defense is underrated. We need solid defense at 3B while Bogaerts is still learning at SS, which steers me toward an established 3B over a lottery ticket, even if those lottery tickets could be a great player.

Yup. Everyone always says 'players never get traded and then sign with the team that traded them' I say look at Cliff Lee. Theyre right. Players generally don't don't do that. But players also don't value comfort over dollars, either, like Lee and Lester. I'm not 'playing this card', if you will, and I don't think that Lester feels that he owes anything to Boston, but the fact that the Sox were the team that helped him through easily the toughest time of his life (battling cancer) certainly plays with his heart strings, as it would for anyone, and as it should. For that, I think he has a special relationship with the Sox that goes beyond dollars and years. Tack on the familiarity and comfort for he and his family, and I think he's the Sox opening day starter.

I see the offer as 6/138 (23mm AAV) and the deal gets done. I think they land Panda at 5/95, and trade for Samardzija using Marrero as the centerpiece. I saw you and not seen this mentioned - I posted a Gammons article a day or two ago in this thread, it's a great read, highly suggest, he mentions this deal in there. I hope the Sox roll the dice on Brandon Morrow as a reliever and same with Luke Hochevar. Both big time K pitchers that would be excellent additions to the pen.

Sign lester, sign panda or HanRam, trade for Samardzija or Cashner. Call it an offseason.

Oh and Lester pulled his house off the market on 10/22. Yes yes yes!!! Come home, Job. We love you.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=bostonred-sox&city=boston&i=TWT&id=41068&w=1ekks !!!!!!!!!!!