SoxFanForsyth

Your point is mooted by the fact that the Red Sox offense is better than any offense that has won the ALCS with a corresponding pitching staff having a sub-4.00 ERA.

Wait. You think I started the season without them??

Screw it. I'm putting Jimenez on my MLB The Show 2011 team. Last November, I put Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford on my MLB The Show 2010 game, and that panned out.

That's where free agency and other trades come in. Obviously you don't want to fill all of your holes with free agents, but if you get into a bad spot where you trade a guy like Middlebrooks and then your back ups don't pan out, you hit the market.

I've thought about it a little more. Here are our holes for the next few years, outside of the SP hole which is what this team is attempting to fill right now. SS - Iglesias is the "SS of the future", if he can ever get his bat up to a reasonable level. Scutaro has an option for 2012, which will give Iggy an extra year, if need be. His glove is so good that we can call him up a little early and let him polish off his offensive development in the MLB level. Bogaerts is only 18 and has drawn comparisons to Asdrubal Cabrera, so if Iglesias doesn't pan out, we have insurance or a good future trade chip. 3B - Youk is under contract through 2013, and will surely be re upped once his contract expires. Once it expires, though, he may be moved into a DH role. Best replacement at 3B is Middlebrooks, Cecchini, and Vitek, all of which are top 20 prospects in our organization. This makes Middlebrooks at least reasonably expendible. C - Saltalamacchia is making huge strides. Lavarnway doesn't have the best defensive skills, but they are developing nicely. His offense is MLB ready, though. If the FO thinks that Salty is the future, then Lavarnway is expendible. RF - Kalish/Reddick. Keep one (or both) of these guys because they're going to play a big part of our future. So basically, if we can pull the trigger on a deal with Middlebrooks + Ranaudo + Weiland, we would be replacing our biggest weakness (P) without mortgaging our future. Obviously young pitching is a premium, but the Sox just drafted Barnes and have some significant arms in the wings. Not only that, but the Red Sox would have a rotation of Beckett - Lester - Jimenez - Buchholz - Lackey through 2014 (including club options for Jimenez). Kolbrin Vitek, the Sox 2010 first rounder, draws comparisons to Michael Young, and could be up in the MLB by late, 2013, which would be about the same time you would want to filter in a new 3B for Youkilis. Outside of that, you've got your entire team locked up for years with unbelievable talent, so a trade involving some of the better prospects wouldn't necessarily hurt the club too bad.

I'm really torn on this. I don't know how much I'm comfortable giving up for Ubaldo, but at the same time, I absolutely do not want to have to face him in pinstripes.

I can't believe there are no Wakefield lovers out there jumping at the opportunity to start the GT for his potential 200th win.

Well, fortunately Bedard's DL stint was not arm related, but rather just a strained knee, not that knees are anything to mess with, but it's better than a shoulder or elbow. I'm actually getting a little excited about the potential move we make, be it Jimenez or Bedard. I really think we're going to get 1 of those 2. Just read an article on the NY Post that said the Yanks view Jimenez as a #2 starter and don't want to give up the haul you would give up for an ace. It's going to be interesting to see if Theo views him the same way. Either way, I'll be watching the Mariners/Rays game tonight for sure. Hopefully Bedard comes out and has a nice showing and the Sox can pull the trigger on him. If Bedard could stay healthy, he could be a top lefty in the AL. Scouts say that this season, his stuff had completely returned to him, and it showed. From April 27 - June 27 (his last start before the DL), he posted a 1.77 ERA, 8.58 K/9, 1.89 BB/9, resulting in an otherworldly 4.53 K:BB. Like I said, his stuff reminds me a ton of Cliff Lee. 8-9 K/9, low BB/9 (albeit, not as low as Lee obviously). And as far as his numbers - they're not affected by Safeco. He's got a 2.16 ERA in 41.2 IP away from Safeco, and a 3.72 ERA in 48.1 IP at Safeco.

Watched some of Bedards highlights on MLB.com from this year, this guy looks pretty sick. His repertoire reminds me a ton of Cliff Lee. He's got 92-94 mph fastball, a nice little cutter he can get in on a righties hands, and a knee buckling curveball. I'm not saying he's as good as Cliff Lee, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying his stuff is extremely similar.

Was this intended for me? If so, go back and read my posts. I've been advocating getting Bedard for the short term and waiting for this offseason when Felix becomes available. That's been the entire premise of my argument this whole time.

Felix bumps up BY 10mm, not TO 10mm. Beginning next year, he is owed $59mm over 3 years. That's an extremely expensive contract for the Mariners.

For the record, Rollins (2007), Morneau ( 2006), and Gibson (1988) are the only MVP winners that did not make the All Star team.

Wainwright has a club option on his contract, but the contract stipulates that "club must exercise 2012 and 2013 options at same time, but may void if Wainwright is on disabled list with arm injury at end of 2011 season". Wainwright is going to finish 2011 on the DL. Felix's salary bumps up by $10mm going into the 2012 season. He will almost certainly be available during the offseason. You never know how this stuff is going to turn out. All I'm saying is, if there is any sign that there is going to be a better pitcher on the market during the offseason, don't overpay for Jimenez when you can get Bedard for a decent price, assuming he appears to be perfectly healthy, and then you can go big for an elite pitcher. It's Theo's job to anticipate the availability of certain pitchers, be it Weaver, Wainwright, Felix, etc.

Well, look. Lose Beckett after you've lost Lester, Buchholz, and :thumbdown DiceK :thumbdown, and yeah I can agree. But with a full, healthy rotation, especially if we acquire Bedard or Jimenez, a rotation of Lester - Buchholz - Jimenez/Bedard - Lackey - Miller/Wakefield isn't terrible. As of right now, Beckett would hurt the most. But assuming full health of all players, I guess I should have lead with that, who is the most important.

This looks like a segway into a political discussion regarding the tiered tax system, which turns into welfare, tax the rich save the poor, etc. I'm not going to get into that. That is the least of the things that should be on the TalkSox trade thread

Looking at Fangraphs, the Red Sox have 3 of the top 7 WAR players in the MLB. The Sox have 3 of the top 5 WAR players in the American League. Oddly enough, Adrian Gonzalez has the 3rd highest WAR on our team, behind Pedroia and Ellsbury. So I was curious, who do you think is the most important player on this baseball team? Also, Pedroia is currently 2nd in the MLB in WAR at 6.5 (Bautista at 6.8 leads), and is creeping up rather steadily (he's picked up 0.3 points on Bautista over the past 2 games). So I started thinking, if Pedroia wins the MVP this year, which is entirely possible, has there ever been an MVP that did not make the All Star team? Here are the stats to help with your decisions: Pedroia: .308/.409/.493/.900, 21 SB, 15 HR, 54 RBI, 72 R, 12.6 UZR, 6.5 WAR Ellsbury: .325/.382/.525/.907, 29 SB, 17 HR, 62 RBI, 78 R, 8.1 UZR, 5.8 WAR Gonzalez: .352/.414/.560/.974, 17 HR, 87 RBI, 74 R, 7.4 UZR, 5.0 WAR I gotta go with Pedroia. Watching anyone else play 2nd base makes you appreciate just how insanely good this guy is, and then he comes out and goes through one of the hottest streaks of his career. Not only that, but when the Sox were 0-6, it was Pedroia who put the team on his back during that Yankees series to notch the first couple of wins. This team could have easily been 1-8 or 0-9 without Pedroia that weekend, came up huge for us.

The taxpayers money?? Does the government now subsidize any poor signings that the Red Sox make?

Middlebrooks looks like he's going to be an absolute stud. Kid has all star written all over him, and he's made enormous steps this year. I know everyone thinks we're set at 3B because we have Youk over there, but I disagree. Youkilis seems like he is always banged up and will soon become a full time DH for this team. Ortiz has about 2 years left with this club, and then Youk moves to DH and Middlebrooks becomes the future at 3B. Give him a couple years to learn his plate discipline better, and he will become a huge asset. The more I've thought about it, the more I'm on board with going after Bedard. Jimenez would be a big improvement, but I don't know if he would be that much better than Bedard that you could justify the extra prospects. But what's even more important is that you save your stud prospects for a bigger trade this offseason, be it for Felix, Kershaw, Weaver, Wainwright, etc. Solidify the rotation this year by making a smaller move (Doubront + Chiang for Bedard), and save your blue chips for this offseason.

The move that the Sox make will make their opinion on Buch's health very very transparent.

If Theo thinks Bedard is healthy and we can get him for a reasonable package that does not involve Middlebrooks, Ranaudo, Lavarnway, Kalish, or Iggy, I'd pull the trigger on that over a deal that involves one of the big name prospects for Ubaldo, and I'll tell you why. You get Bedard in here, he's a low to mid 3 ERA pitcher, high k/9 lefty, and you save your farm. This offseason, when Felix comes available, you mortgage the farm for him. Theo has had as much of a love fest for Felix as he did for Gonzo, and when Theo wants a player, he goes out and gets him. Felix will most definitely become available. Jack Z is smart not to sell him now. He'll get just as much of a haul this offseason, and he'll fill up his stadium for another 2 months this year and generate some extra revenues with him on the mound. Next year, Felix's salary bumps up by $10mm to around $20mm. He's got a no trade clause, so the Sox will have to shell out the money for him, so what. You get Felix and you have a rotation of Felix - Lester - Beckett - Buchholz - Lackey. I think Theo will go all out for Felix and will not be outbid by the Yankees like he was on Tex. A little revenge, I already smell it.

Youk's strikeout when we had Hochevar on the ropes really hurt. Should have been a tie game when Pedroia hit the HR

Ugh. Piece of s***.

Come on Navarro. Get your first walk off.