Imperial59

I was just fact checking. You said he never had any shoulder troubles with the Red Sox after 1985 so I looked it up and saw that he went on the DL in 1990 because of his shoulder. It's alright, you admitted that you're not actually correct 100% of the time the other week so we're not breaking any new ground here

He was just trying to counter my "irreverent" injury history when I pointed out that Beckett tore his labrum. Don't worry though, it was just a little tear and he could always use his other arm if it becomes an issue down the road.

By the way, he's joining ESPN so we'll all get the chance to see him on a daily basis now. Yay!

Now you're claiming that I'm about to bash Beckett. Awesome. Nowhere did I bash Beckett, in fact, I clearly said that I wouldn't be upset if we ended up with either pitcher. Can't we just agree to disagree about which pitcher we'd prefer and leave it at that?

Oh, come on. If you think a minor foot surgery puts Lee at risk or injury in the future, then you must REALLY be sweating these injuries to Beckett: Oct 3, 2009 - Back injury Sep 5, 2008 - Right elbow injury Apr 27, 2008 - Neck injury Mar 24, 2007 - Back spasms May 17, 2007 - Finger injury etc... Every pitcher gets minor injuries.

So just to clarify, which one of your arguments am I supposed to be "keeping up" with? The one where you claim that he struggles with pitch selection at times and tries to throw his fastball by everyone... ...or the argument where you say that I'm "ridiculously untrue" when I say he struggles with pitch selection at times and tries to throw his fastball by everyone?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4938385 For such an insignificant player, he had such a huge influence over the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry. He robbed the Red Sox of a possible World Series victory, paved the way for the Yankees signing A-Rod, may have influenced the Red Sox signing Schilling and Foulke, and who knows, he may even have played a role in Beckett's career by setting up his coming out party in the 2003 World Series.

The MRI didn't raise any new red flags. Meaning it's quite possible that it did show some damage that the Red Sox were already aware of.

What hasn't he put together? You claimed he had great movement on his fastball, he has great breaking stuff, and he knows when to throw his breaking stuff. P.S. - Lee has allowed 0.5 and 0.7 HR/9 IP the last two years respectively. He's not the same pitcher he was before when he'd routinely allow more than a home run every 9 innings.

I understand why they tested his elbow but I was discussing that he has a slight history of shoulder injury and you gave me a source about his elbow looking healthy in 2008. Who knows what kind of scar tissue he may or may not have in his shoulder. I'm not saying he's going to go on the DL, but shoulder injuries are very hard for pitchers to overcome, so it's something to keep in mind when signing someone to a long-term deal. It could be a deal breaker for the Sox like Bay's knees were this offseason. Or perhaps the Sox could negotiate a shoulder clause like they did with Drew.

EDIT: I assume this is the article you're talking about. http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/08/30/beckett_aces_all_his_tests/ They ran tests on his elbow, not his shoulder.

Another thing to consider, Beckett has had shoulder issues in the past and pitchers with shoulder injuries don't have a very good track record. Once a shoulder goes bad, doctors don't really know how to fix it completely.

If he has such great movement on his fastball and he goes to his secondary stuff in appropriate situations then why's he give up a home run every 9 innings?

I'd have to agree with you Kilo, it's a riot

I think we can both have differing opinions without saying the other person is "ridiculously untrue" or "4 years out of date". That really doesn't add anything to the conversation. Beckett still does, and always has thrown his fastball 2/3rds of the time. I just don't see that playing out very well when his fastball is 93 mph and he's still trying to throw it by everyone.

His two-seamer is quite good. He seems to get a lot of strikeouts on it.

His velocity is going to be the first thing to go. And I'm not excited about having a 35 year old Beckett getting lit up on his 93 mph fastball and not knowing how to make the adjustment. He's a thrower, not much of a pitcher.

So SIERA is supposed to be the new, sexy, most advanced pitching independent metric out there. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=10027 Just for jollies, I thought I'd post the Red Sox pitching stats according to SIERA, I've included their actual ERA's in parenthesis after their SIERA ERA. Lester - 2.99 (3.41) Beckett - 3.34 (3.86) Lackey - 3.91 (3.83) Matsuzaka - 4.39 (5.76) Buchholz - 4.16 (4.21) Papelbon - 2.92 (1.85) Okajima - 3.85 (3.39) Ramirez - 4.67 (2.84) Delcarmen - 5.03 (4.53) Bard - 2.97 (3.65) Wakefield - 5.16 (4.58) My first reaction is, wow, SIERA really hates our bullpen. And with the poor FIP's they also posted last year, perhaps this is cause for concern. The lone bright spot in the pen is that they projected that Bard pitched better than his ERA suggests. My next reaction was, wow, our defense really sucked last year. I don't think it's any coincidence that every defense independent pitching stat out there loves our pitching staff. With a good defense behind them, I expect Lester, Beckett and Lackey to have great years in 2010.