Dojji

And when did I contradict that? Socrates was pretty much the ultimate brilliant *******.

You guys knew that endurance would be an issue for Joba going in. You can't just assume he'll develop endurance when that was one of the biggest questionmarks going in. That and his physical conditioning (or lack thereof) were a big reason why a lot of people were slotting him for the bullpen. BTW I think you're wrong. Buchholz' fastball command has been the big thing. The big knock on Clay when he was coming up througgh the minors was that his fastball might be his third or fourth best pitch and that the command wasn't yet there -- in other words he was getting through the minors mostly on his dominant offspeed stuff. That caught up with him last year in the bigs. Now he's made the adjustments needed. Old Number One sets up everything else. You can throw your offspeed stuff mostly out of the zone IF you're getting your fastball over the plate for called strikes. Buchholz has done that, forcing hitters to take his fastball seriously, in turn allowing him to set up the change to devestating effect. Also better fastball accuracy is allowing him to throw harder. He lit up the gun at 97 a couple times according to Pitch f/x in the Kansas City start, and throw those pitches for strikes, and was sitting comfortably at 94-95 throughout that start. In other words, painting the zone with his fastball has pretty much made him the pitcher we all saw his potential to be.

You guys speak as if Bowden wasn't still one of our top 10 prospects. Or that he didn't throw mid 90's heat with a decent slider and a great change.

Yeah, I went to Fangraphs and got 34.3 for Holliday and 33.2 for Bay. Replacement value still favors Holliday, mostly because of defense. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1873&position=OF#value http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1717&position=OF#value Interestingly Baseball-Reference is not kind to Mr. Holliday's glove. If I'm reading this right it says for his career, Holliday is actually a slightly below average left fielder. (about 2.3 runs below average over his career). http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hollima01.shtml#standard_fielding it's entirely possible I'm not reading this right. disregarding the nontrivial risk of getting neither. We're a playoff bound team with either bay or Holliday next year. Monkeying with that for the sake of draft picks? that's asinine.

Where else would he be? Sure, he's got below average range in left, but it's not going to get that much worse from here between now and whenever his injuries catch up with him. It's worth noting that while he is below average this year he is a significant improvement over where he was at the same time last year. To say nothing of the whole Manny thing.

Take a good long look into the depths of your own soul and tell me you really want to start that all over again. Matt Holliday is about a run better than Bay offensively. it's something like 34 to 33 offensive runs above average on the year. Any gains will come on the defense end. And we're talking left fielder here. Not exactly a premium defensive position. Add in that Holliday's overall defensive numbers are well down this year for some reason and has gotten worse as the season went along (below zero UZR/150 with the Cards,above with the A's, averaging to 1 or so), and as long as Bay makes the routine plays, I don't think left field is a place we need to rock the boat. Although to really make such things as RAR useful I need to find one that does RAR/150 so we're comparing apples to apples. Not unless we can trade for Carlos Beltran anyway.

Socrates taught some of the most unpleasant and unsavory characters in Greek history, and by many accounts was one himself. He annoyed his neighbors so much they voted in a bloc to kill him. I'm pretty sure the Socratic method has something to do with that.

Gonzo is not good enough defensively to not hit. By UZR/150 he's only a little above average with the glove. Limited range hurts him a lot.\ When I say "go for defense" I mean really go for defense, not just scrounging up some no-bat veteran who survives on his reputation like Gonzo.

In the wrong forum no less.

when devising a trade, you have to figure out some way it makes sense to the other team. Very very few possible scenarios involve a franchise caliber cost controlled elite offensive and defensive SS being available on the trade market. I'd rather go for defense anyway. It's easier to find and we have other issues to resolve -- and what we're really looking for isn't really a top flight SS, just an alternative to Jed Lowrie in case he gets healthy and still can't cut it.

That topic isn't going anywhere. Neither is Troy Tulowitzki for that matter. the Rockies wouldn't trade Helton for Lester and Lowell, they sure as heck won't trade Tulo.

It supports him as a better option than Alex Gonzalez.

Either someone hijacked Jacko's computer, or he couldn't resist a chance to deliver so many backhanded complements to the Sox at once.

Actually, we're not just talking about hitting the ball. Not any more than talking about pitching is talking about throwing the ball, or talking about fielding is talking about catchin the ball. There's a whole lot of layers to this that you're just not gonna get if you stick to such a simplistic outlook.

Yes, and it's a beneficial difference, since walks are just as legitimate a way to extend a rally as, say, infield hits, and are much easier to obtain without insane luck. And actually it measures getting on base per "plate appearance" since a walk is not an official at bat. Yes, that means it's possible to have an OBP *lower* than your AVG.

http://www.kidspot.com.au/admin/images/contentarticles/544.jpg

That sort of depends on your definition of what it is to "hit." Is it to get a lot of singles and nothing else? because that's the only time I'd ever use AVG as an end-all statistic without at least bringing slugging percentage along for the ride.

It's intellectually dishonest because you didn't say "with the Red Sox." You said "this year." Gonzalez spent part of the year with the Reds. That brings his average down -- to .239 You may not have made the statistic but you certainly misapplied it.

Not by itself it doesn't. Batting average is one component of a whole number salad of things that "judge hitting." Even by your own old-fashioned customs, such numbers as slugging average, RBI's, homers, extra base hits, etc. also come into the mix.

No, it's stupid because it's really ill-informed, a bit intellectually dishonest, and professes a determination to ignore anything that doesn't support your point.