BSN07

a700, have you made your Doubront predictions yet?

They have the prospects for sure and I read a couple articles mentioning them. I don't see it though as Stanton is arb eligible after this year and hes going to get expensive quick if he continues along his current path. Stanton most likely will end up on a team that can drop big $ for an extension. Unless he takes a Longo type deal.

Ok that's a little more reasonable. I don't think all ? will fail or turn out perfectly. It will be some combination.

Of course it's plausible. What planet do you live on? I didn't say he wasn't contacting other teams. He doesn't need a press conference to announce he's back on the market. How good would it be for him to say the Red Sox and himself have ended negotiations? It's better for him to have teams believing Boston is still involved.

Or they have moved on and both parties agreed to keep it quiet as it will help both sides in negotiations with other teams/players if they think the 2 are still involved? At this point I'm expecting him to go elsewhere. If he still signs in Boston then ok.

Ok you have taken "the glass is empty" look on every single SP. Go take that same look at all the other division SP and maybe you won't feel so bad about the Sox chances. In fact I will give it a whirl, TB- Lost Shields, needs Hellickson and Moore to become 2-3, if they don't they are in trouble as they will have a harder time adding talent. Baltimore- hahaha just look at the rotation, I don't even have to say anything. Yankees- CC had elbow surgery, Pineda will give nothing this season, Hughes is as wonky as Bucc, Kuroda is good, but we know what happens to Japanese pitchers exposed over time in the AL East. Nova? he needs to take a big step forward Toronto- Romero is terrible, Johnson is Beckett 2.0, Buerhle is a soft tossing LHP now and Dickey is a 38 year old KB riding a three year run of success. He will either regress or keep his streak going and probably be considered the greatest KB ever. What's more likely? Now an alternate look at the Sox SP I'm not willing to overlook Lester's body of work for his career for a 12 month span. Doubront talent emerged last season when he was the head of the rotation for the beginning of the season. He hit a wall as he broke past his innings total from the previous season and understandably struggled for a period. I believe his last 5-6 starts last season were all good starts. I probably dislike that moose knuckle Lackey more then anyone here. But even I can step back and look at his ineptitude in Boston being partly to blame from a bum elbow. He wouldn't be the first and won't be the last guy to bounce back from TJS. I wasn't thrilled with Dempster. I would have rather had Marcum considering he has some AL experience. But given the Sox issues last year in the rotation, getting a guy that pitches close to 200 innings every season was important.

They did do something to help the pitching. they added an innings eater and a couple nice pieces to go in the BP, helping shorten the game, thus helping the rotation. I didn't say he would fail. I said he wasn't worth the money he got. And that's the reason I wasn't upset they didn't get him. I don't need a crystal ball to project Sanchez being a #3 in the AL East. Anything higher is pure hope. And for a #3 he was too expensive IMO. Their SP prospects aren't ready yet. That's just fact. Maybe some mid season(De le Rosa, Webster, Wright) maybe some next season(Barnes). But within the next year or two they should start to show up. There would be nowhere for them if they added Sanchez or Ajax for 4+ seasons. I believe the FO feels(although I admit having no possible way of knowing, just guessing from what they have been doing of late) these players will be ready within the next couple years and was unwilling to block them for average over priced guys. BTW it's nice to have a decent conversation with you

I looked briefly a while back. It's lot of the same. I was ok with Salty, but when I looked into it there is something to pitchers and their ERA ballooning throwing to him.

That would have decimated the farm system and locked the Sox into the LT for the next 3-5 years. This is not MLB the Show, money matters and you actually have to give up something in trades and not just turn the "force trades" on.

Exactly. Lackey was better and more accomplished at Sanchez's age. Glad to see you finally get it...

So the Yankees are ancient, Baltimore's done absolutely f*** all and is not going 18-1 or whatever in 1 run games and Toronto has won the off season title.* Why do some of you look at the Red Sox and everything is a sure fire miss while everyone else in the division will come up roses? I still take that bet, I say they finish 3rd or above, you think they are a 4-5. Exactly, no point in filling the team with mediocre SP when they have that.

You keep saying the spent money on other positions. Has it even crossed your mind that they SP they did like out priced themselves, and instead of sitting on the money this year(a700 and others would have had a god damn conniption fit) they spent it on other pieces to help solidify other parts of the roster? I don't know for sure and I'm not making excuses for anyone. I'm just looking at it reasonably.

You think this is a last place team? I'll take the over on that.

I don't know who is or isn't available. I'm not plugged in. I just now that it's an ever changing landscape and what's available today might not be what's available in June-July when teams start selling(always happens) or even into next off season. Everything I read has Price being moved as he's getting more expensive and approaching FA. A trade is unlikely, but him signing an extension with the team that does trade for him might not be a given. He hits the market and he will break CC's deal. Timmy is also is available after the year. Those are a couple "names" I can think off the top of my head. What would I do? Probably close to what they did. I would have went for Marcum instead of Dempster. But given Marcum has some injury issues and Dempster seems to be able to add up the innings every year, I can see why they went with him instead. I would have strengthen the BP in order to shorten games as the SP options were not great, something they have done. I'd still like to see them add Jurrjens for some depth. This all comes back to our core argument. I don't mind them not winning this season. You do. I'm ok with them taking some time to rebuild/retool the roster for a couple seasons while the next group of talent comes up. Your not. I like the thought of building from within and using $ when need be. You want every dime spent and a name at every position with WS expectations every season. We both love the Red Sox. We just approach it differently. I also don't think it's outlandish to think Some of the SP will rebound.

Sorry I forgot TB holds a monopoly on developing pitching, how stupid of me.

Then I'd rather they take the development route or possibly trade(for a true front line SP) and stay away from giving guys like Jackson, Sanchez etc etc long term deals. The only instance I'm ok with those type of moves, if it's the final piece on a Championship caliber team(Detroit is that, so them paying that much for Sanchez that much is ok). There's no reason to overpay for mid rotation SP when you have plenty of that and need front end.

They team is not a final product. What they currently have is not bad, especially in a wide open division. And the team you start the season is usually 99% never the team you end with. Of course the team is not strong in your opinion. Your a serial negative nancy. It's just your nature. The team could be full of HOF's and you's complain about the bat boy not being quick enough to react after a broken bat. There is no scenario were you will be happy. You can't be, you wouldn't have anything to say or write about, and that probably violates some law of nature and the universe would cave in upon itself.

You don't just sign players to sign players. They have to be smart business choices as it effects how you can sustain a team long term. Sometimes that means waiting. Again why is it so hard to believe these guys can bounce back to career norms? Does wearing "Red Sox" on your jersey make that feat impossible?

Dempster isn't on my list. I was against the signing when it was rumored to be 3 years. Fact is there is no list this off season, they guys I like or liked were not available for obvious reasons or were too expensive. Buehrle no, I explained why. Johnson is Beckett 2.0, do we want to go through that again? When he's good he will be good, when he's bad it will be ugly. Sanchez, too expensive. He got close to Beckett and Lackey money with an injury history and a far less proven track record, regular season and post season. Jackson? For 4/52m? Are you serious? The guys couldn't get a multi year deal last season, settled for a pillow contract and then pitched fairly average(worse then his prior season) and got 4 years? That's insane. Kuroda only gave the Yankees the chance to sign him. He had no interest in going anywhere else in the MLB and thought about returning to Japan. I don't dislike these guys, they have talent, but the price it would have cost to acquire them via free agency or trade outweighed that. Fact is I don't like Dempster much either, but they needed someone. And he came on a short term deal.

I don't particularly like any of those guys. I think that's probably why we are disagreeing. i don't see those as guys worth moving pieces for. Dickey is a 38 year old knuckler that has success in the NL and in a pitchers haven. Johnson is Beckett 2.0 and Buerhle looked like a a soft tossing LHP last season. He will be durable, but he's not some top of the line SP.

My thought it they have a decent team now and if things break right they could be pretty good. No one is a runaway favorite in the division. If things don't break right they should have plenty of sought after piece at the TDL that could completely revamp the roster and farm system.

I'm not making excuses for anybody. There wasn't anyone on the market I felt gave them what they needed at the prices they were going for. That's it. I'm not apologizing or making excuses for the FO just because the way I view things is similar. And I'm not blaming them for not getting what wasn't actually there. If that's making excuses for them, then that's a fairly warped view at things. BTW I'm don't like or dislike the FO. I'm pretty much in the middle, they have done nothing to swing me either way.

Has anyone said he wouldn't get a chance? To think if he is healthy and not part of the starting 5 making 15M is lunacy.

Salty seems like a good dude. I don't dislike him. I'm just kinda over watching him catch. If Napoli signs he will get moved between now and at some point in the early stages of the season. There's a good chance he might get moved even if Napoli doesn't sign. If Lavs hits in ST they might decide to go with Ross and Lavs anyways. Salty hit 22 HR last season. He has some value as a "bat". He isn't a good catcher. But if a team losses their starting C early on, he will look like a decent plan B.

The pitching did need improvement. They added Dempster(I'm luke warm with him) and added some nice BP pieces to make it a strength for the team. The top tier SP was too expensive. Grienke was too long and too much. Sanchez hit the lottery when Cain and Hammels got extended. The pool below that had Dempster in it which they signed. They didn't add anything flashy or fix the pitching with one big move. They made some smaller moves and are looking to Lester and Bucc to step up. Which isn't absurd. Teams do this all the time. Just because someone they are tied into long term doesn't work one season you dump them. I don't see why some find it so inconceivable that these guys bounce back in some manor. Lester has had one bad season. One. Before that he was considered one of the best LHP in the game. A lot are looking at just last season as to what they should expect from the rotation in 2013. That's ridiculous. If s*** hits the fan and Lester and Bucc crumble, well it will be a lost season anyways. But the Sox will have plenty of chips to trade away and that will bring in some youth to a nice developing core in the Sox system and free up some funds as well. So either way I see a positive outcome.