a700hitter

The odds are against all the "ifs" coming out in a positive way. That's just how it is. If you have one question mark, if it doesn't work out, you might be okay. In order of importance, both Lester and Buchholz need to rebound. If one of them doesn't rebound, we're dead. Next in importance is that Dempster is not an ALE pi?ata. We don't need him to be an AllStar, but he needs to be solid and make quality starts. Lackey needs to be at least 2010 Lackey. We can live without Dempster or Lackey if Buch and Lester come up big. I don't think we can survive both Lackey and Dempster failing even if Buch and Lester come up big.

Here here or hear hear!

I made the appropriate correction in bold.

I don't doubt that they are in our top 5, and I think that speaks volumes to the lack of overall talent in our system. SFF, I do follow this stuff, but I acknowledge that you follow the prospects more closely. If your solution to our pitching strategy is to wait 3 years and Barnes, De La Rosa and Webster will be anchoring our rotation, that's fine. That's one strategy, and only time will tell.

I'll respectfully disagree with you on our pitching prospects. They are not our best prospects, and they are just not that good yet. Let's see if Barnes can dominate at AA before we start penciling him into the 2014 rotation. Let's see if De La Rosa can hold up over the course of a season as a starter anywhere before we start mentioning him in sentences with Pedro. As for Webster, he's just slightly better than Zach Stewart.

I think it all flows from the pitching. We had a strong run producing team for about 3/4 of 2012, but the pitching sunk us and then the wheels came off the whole thing. I don't think the offensive acquisitions will be enough to overcome suck ass starting pitching. The strengthened pen will help, but it will wilt from pitching 3 or 4 innings every game.

Bells, the problem is that Anthony Rizzo and our current prime youn talent are not pitchers. We can be as patient as we want, but that is not going to make young pitching talent appear in the organization. For several year we have sucked at identifying and signing good young pitching. We got scooped by Cleveland who landed Bauer for Choo (in his walk year). Why not offer them Ells to get Bauer and the Cincy CFer?

Everyone would love for the Sox to get an ace, but teams aren't exactly lining up to have fire sales for their ace pitchers. They are keeping them long term. When Gio was available last off season we didn't land him. Big mistake. He signed a 5 year/$40 million extension. He should kill his agent.

You have presumed wrong, so you don't know what the core of the argument. I have said what my expectations and hopes were for 2013 many man times. I do not expect an elite team at all. I was hoping for a somewhat competitive team that would play meaningful games throughout August and hopefully into September. If you are going to presume what I want, get it right or don't put words in my mouth. That being said, the biggest need on this team going into the off season was starting pitching. That is as clear as the nose on your face. Thus far they have chosen to address that issue with the great Ryan Dempster. There isn't a Sox fan on this planet who thinks Dempster will fix our rotation. The real mystery to me is why they would pump up the payroll when they have built a 4th place pitching rotation. The possibilities that I see are 1) they are not finished building their pitching (that's what I am hoping), 2) they like the staff and think everyone will rebound and the team will compete (this is pure folly IMO), or 3) they spent the other money expecting to also improve the pitching, but they couldn't execute that part of the plan. If they went into the off season without the expectation of improving the starting pitching, then they should have saved their money. So, you see you are wrong again. I don't want them to spend every penny. Spending 84% of their money on stopgap position players while spending only 16% on the biggest need is foolish. After asking you twice how you would rebuild the pitching and how long it should take, it is obvious that you have no strategy. We don't have the talent in our system to rebuild a rotation any time soon. You answered with nothing but wrong assumptions and presumptions about my positions on these issues. You basically just spewed insults. In your next lame attempt at empty rhetoric and accusations maybe you could accuse me of wanting to give tax breaks to the wealthy or accuse me of being in bed with big business. From what I can see, it seems that you are taking approach #2-- the staff will all improve in 2013-- the approach that I have called "folly". Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, because - wouldn't want to put words in your mouth. I will leave open one slim possibility for all of the starters to improve. I call it the Salty effect. It is possible that he has been a big part of the problem, and that getting rid of him will pay "addition by subtraction" benefits.

I'll take a shot at asking again. So, who do you like and when will they become available? In short, how would you go about rebuilding our pitching and in what time horizon?

^ This is all ridiculous. If you can't back up your arguments, just say nothing. It's hard to back up some opinions, but this stuff ^ is garbage.

Of course, we are all hoping that the team is not a finished product, because as it stands, the best thing you could say about our starting pitching is that it is too thin with many question marks. Pitching with so many question marks usually proves to be bad pitching at the end of the day. As for the "serial negative Nancy" stuff, give me a break. There was a consensus on the board by the FO ballwashers and the Negative Nancys at the beginning of the off season that the team need to improve its starting pitching first and foremost. Everyone agreed that if that didn't happen that the FO hadn't done its job. Now, as hope of improvement fades, the Stockholm Syndrome takes hold and people circle the wagons and make excuses for the FO. It happened last year, and history repeats itself. We are already seeing ridiculously unrealistic projections of the our starters performance. Without further additions to our starting pitching after January 1st, this staff is essentially the same staff that led this team to the basement. IMO, it will lead us to the bottom again unless everything breaks right.

So, who do you like and when will they become available? In short, how would you go about rebuilding our pitching and in what time horizon? Finally, if there were indeed no pitchers available to improve the biggest weakness on the team, why in the world would they spend $170 million on payroll for a team that really has very little chance of success.

They have a team with no first baseman (until Napoli signs), 3 catchers, only 2 real OFers (Gomes is a hack with the glove), and 5 starting pitchers (all with question marks). This is not a strong team as constituted. The pitching is pretty much the same as last year and September 2011. Expecting a markedly improved result from this group does not have a high probability IMO. If things don't break right, there will be little market for under performing pieces.

Do you like Dempster better than Dickey, Buehrle or Josh Johnson? What about the numerous other pitchers who have been traded or signed? Dempster tops your list?

At the beginning of the off season, no one thought that the Marlins would move both Josh Johnson and Buerhle and that the Mets would move RA Dickey after winning the CY Young. The Toronto GM made things happen. Our guy didn't make things happen. Assuming that pitchers weren't there is an excuse. Check the transactions wire. Plenty of pitchers were available and plenty changed uniforms by FA and trade. Saying no one was available completely belies the facts.

Excuses and rationalizations. It wasn't just last year. The rotation in September 2011 fell apart. Expecting essentially the same group to make a big turnaround is unreasonable IMO. They still need pitching help. What we have now is very thin and very flawed. The Blue Jays added Josh Johnson, Mark Buerhle and CY Young winner, RA Dickey. We added Dempster, but make excuses that the FO did its best. The FO needs to do more. If this is what we go to Ft. Myers with, well, they will have done a lousy job.

It's better to have opened eyes. We can hope for a surprise, but if it doesn't happen the disappointment will not be as crushing, because we knew the probability that it would come. I am still hoping for some reinforcements. I never give up hope.

and the excuses for not building the team the right way begin. Who was out there? The guys we have should improve. . . yada yada yada. The Stockholm syndrome starts to take form. Everyone went into the off season acknowledging that the pitching needed to be improved. Everyone also said to stay away from Dempster, but as the options dwindle everyone forgets what we needed and starts to believe we have what is needed. Hogwash. This is essentially the same group of starters less Beckett who have been dragging this team to embarrassing levels since September 2011, but we expect that to miraculously change with the acquisition of Dempster? I think people are just kidding themselves.

From Peter A: Cherington,s quote below is some serious "head up ass" thinking. He's expecting improvement not from 1 or 2 pitchers, but 3 pitchers. Great plan. Let's all cross our fingers and wish.

The Mets, Twins, Cubs and Padres are interested in Marcum. The Mets should be easy enough to knock out of the box as they are still on an austerity budget. The Cubs have plenty of money for Theo to squander. Hopefully, we can give him an attractive 1 year deal that will help him rebuild his long term value. Jurjensbis still available too.

They should still be pursuing pitching, not a first baseman with a bum hip.

True about Bragg. Didn't he hit a grand slam off Randy Johnson at Fenway? I liked him as a 4th OFer.

I don't think it is hating if you just recognize that a player is merely adequate and not good.

There is a chance that we move one of the arms as part of a package in another deal. One of the catchers (i.e. Salty) has to go, especially if Napoli gets signed. They could package a BP arm with Salty. That would open up a deserved spot for Tazawa.