a700hitter

My guess is that neither of you has a real job in a real business responsible to management or stockholders. Just a guess. Doing nothing when your business has deficiencies is not progress. You would get fired.

Business is not about doing nothing, especially when your business is very weak or deficient in a critical area as is the Red Sox pitching. If they don't want to improve the major league staff then they should be improving their pitching on the farm. It's a completely unrealistic to think that there were no opportunities to improve either their current or future pitching. You are entitle to your own opinion, however, I am free to view them as lame ass excuses.

It's a record of negative accomplishment. That escaped you? Really?

I have UN on ignore, so I don't see his posts, but now that you have quoted it, I'll answer. First of all, every one and every organization makes mistakes. His question is moronic because he does not even define the terms of his own question. What constitutes "a lot of mistakes"? Two, three, more? So, how does one answer that? I will venture to say that examples of teams that have done a good job are the Giants and Cardinals. It would be hard to criticize them. There, I just squashed the crickets.

So, no ownership group has accomplished what the Red Sox have done-- spent $170+ million and finish last. That is just a fact.

You really can't grasp anything today. In fact for the last couple of day, I hope that you understand yourself.

I am sorry, but in my business, not doing anything is not making progress toward a long term plan. Saying that not going for Greinke, Hamilton et. al. is an implementation of their plan for the future is a stretch. I wish that I could sell that to my boss-- that my doing nothing was progress, because at least I didn't make any stupid moves. They didn't blow up Fenway either. Was that also part of their implementation of their long term plans?

And I am not at all proposing a short term approach. What I am saying, and I'll spell it out very clearly for you is that this off season they have made only 1 move to improve the starting pitching in the near term and none to improve the future of our pitching. Doing nothing in an entire off season to address future needs is not the best way to meet your long term goals. Long term goals don't get addressed at the end of 3 or 5 years. They get addressed throughout the period. You don't take a year off. That's not the best way to achieve the long term objective.

Every team has an off season plan. Your inability to understand that is astounding. That doesn't preclude it from being part of a 3 or 5 year plan. Are you in business? Have you ever seen your Company's financial plan and it's goals? Businesses have annual and even quarterly objectives which fit with long term goals. It sounds like you need some business training from iortiz. He's very proficient with that stuff.

This is just stupid. The possibilities that I see at this point are: 1. they have not completed their off season plan yet, 2. they were unable to implement their off season plan, or 3. they formulated a poor off season plan. I am hoping that #1 is correct, because 2 and 3 give us little hope for the upcoming season. I don't see any other possibilities, because they have done very little to improve our current starting pitching and nothing to improve our future starting pitching. Starting pitching is this teams biggest need.

This is the off season thread. I have said over and over that they have done nothing this off season to improve the starting pitching in the short term or the future. They have done less to build the future of our starting pitching than the present. I am assuming they acquired Dempster for the present. I don't think his acquisition will help much. They have done nothing with an eye to the future. As for your assertion that they might have made an offer of Ellsbury for Bauer and other trades, I don't care. Results count. Cleveland got the deal done and got back a nice young arm plus a replacement CFer in Stubbs. We didn't. If they were trying to move Ellsbury, they should have made a more compelling argument, because Ells is a more talented player than Choo. If they questioned his injury-proneness, they should have made the case that he is fully healthy and that those injuries were freak incidents. They should have brought a DVD showing Ells doing his off season training. They didn't get the deal. That's all that matters. We don't know the effort so we can't judge it. There is a possibility that there was no effort. We can only judge results, because we don't know what efforts are being made. Other teams are improving their weaknesses. We have not.

Ortiz has to hit 3rd or 4th. Napoli might hit 4th if Victorino gets dropped tho 6th or 7th.

They have not articulated any such approach, so you are speculating as to their off season plan. Also, they have not made a single move this off season to build the future of this team's starting pitching. If you are going to assert a strategy that has not been articulated by the FO, you should have some evidence to back it up. Doing nothing is not a strategy for the future when your organization is thin on starting pitching talent at all levels.

We were discussing what they did this off season. The purge was in August. They have done nothing developmental this off season. Their strategy has not been cohesive. Which of their moves this off season will build the starting pitching for the future? I am not seeing any. If the DBacks liked Choo for Bauer, maybe we could have explored that deal for Ells.

You obviously did not read my entire post, or you didn't understand it, or you chose to answer what you want to think I said.

When did results stop mattering?

If Ellsbury shows that he has regained his pwer stroke in Spring Training, I think the top 4 could be Victorino, Pedroia, Ells and Ortiz. If Ells power stroke is not there, Victorino might get dropped to 6th or 7th spot.

If the FA pool is thin, then trades should have been explored. If they wanted to be competitive now, they should have traded for established pitchers. If they are planning for the future, they should have traded for pitching prospects like Bauer. They have done neither. Great pitching is not going to show up at Fenway by itself and bit Cherries on the ass and say here we are. Sitting and doing nothing about the starting pitching this off season will not improve us in the short term or the long term.

What "development approach"? They haven't acquired any young talent this offseason. They have signed an aging CF and a catcher/1B with a bad hip for big bucks. They signed a mediocre starter with little track record of success in the AL for big bucks. They have managed to pump up their payroll to $170 million. They signed a closer in his walk year. They have not traded Ellsbury for young talent even though Ellsbury is in his walk year and they are expected to let him walk. I have not seen any building with younger players or acquiring top prospects. I see little evidence of a cohesive strategy. This is not a win it now approach, because they have ignored the starting pitching need. It's not building for the future, because they have done none of that this off season. Whichever way they are going, it looks like the execution of the strategy has been poor.

It doesn't change the fact that thus far they really made little attempt to fix the starting pitching for the upcoming season. They have not articulated their reasons for this approach, but they are on record several times (even before acquiring Dempster) saying that their starting pitching is improved over last year. I am not in agreement with that.

I don't think it will be easy to figure out the optimal lineup with Victorino and Ellsbury.

What year did they finish last with a $170 million payroll? When is the last time that they finished last?

I read your whole post twice, and I have to admit that I can't find a coherent point in the entire post. Are you seriously comparing our FO to that of the Giants which have won championships in 2 of the last 3 seasons? I think we'd be basking in glory if we were in their position, and we wouldn't have any expectations for the off season. The Giants did the one key thing that they needed to do over the last couple of years. They kept their exceptional starting pitching intact. They extended Matt Cain and didn't let him get to Free Agency. They resisted the suggestions that they should trade a CY Young pitcher like Lincecum. They are sitting pretty. If I were a fan of theirs, I'd be giddy with happiness.

In this recent exchange between SBF and UN, UN lobbed the first personal attack telling Fred that he was blabbering. I am sorry but UN doesn't get to operate with impunity. If he makes it personal, he should expect return fire. Why don't you ever call out UN? Be fair about it if you are going to call out people. UN is constantly offending people without provocation, but you let him off the hook because you like his targets. Lay off Fred unless you are willing to go after UN too.

As every off season comes to a close, people start making excuses for the FO. You start reading things like: the market was too high, no one was available, it a b ridge year etc., etc. I think people just are tryting to avoid the reality that the team isn't good enough to be a serious competitor and they want to start the season with hope. Even Fred has been susceptible to this false hope as he has said numerous time that he likes the moves made this off season and that he thinks the team will be improved. The reality is that the FO has made a very weak effort at improving the starting pitching which is our biggest need They are rolling the dice that last year's crew will improve. I think that is a bad strategy.