Hammer, who can argue with your stats. It says it all. Again, though, back to the original question: Does a player have to play ten years for the Red Sox to have his number retired, and my assertion that the player must not have left the Red Sox for another team. To make it fair to both, I say NO sto both of them. Again, I'm 65 and an old timer by your standards and I know things have changed a lot in the mind sets of the younger guys like most of my friends on this board, but LOYALTY is very very very important to me and those two were not loyal to the Red Sox. So nyet, nein, no, no mas to both of them.