seabeachfred

Concerning Lavarnway, the first thing the Red Sox must do is not to offer Ortiz arbitration next winter because we have to find a place in the lineup for Ryan. The guy could turn out to be another Mike Piazza for the Red Sox. He can hit, he can hit with power and he has a strong arm. I know he will be at Pawtucket this coming year, at least for about half the season, but if his catching improves enough he should be on the fast track to Fenway Park as soon as possible. We need another good RH hitting power hitter and he is it. He must not be blocked after this season. He can be our DH as well as our second catcher in 2013, and on that route it means we could carry an additional IF or OF since our DH is also our second catcher. He is one guy we must hold onto at all costs.

What I see wrong with your scenario UN is that you are convinced that the FA market is going to be loaded next winter. What may have slipped your mind is that some of those better potential FA's will no doubt resign with their respective teams. I kept hearing in 2009 when Epstein signed all those scrap heapers like Smoltz and Penny that the FA market that fall would be loaded with talent, but most of that "talent" resigned with their respective teams. As for winning now, I think it is time we start winning now because for the last four seasons we have not won a damn thing. Certainly not a World Series, but not even an AL title or a division one. We need to start winning something this coming season.

The problem iortiz is, starter or reliever, the Red Sox just are not going to spend much money this off season, and unless this mindset changes and fast my optimism that we can be a good team this coming season will be out the window and into the crapper. Look, we need another good starting pitcher and now with Smorgabord Jenks back on the shelf we need another good reliever as well. It's beginning to dawn on me that John Henry has put out the word that he isn't going to spending large sums of money this winter and that's that, and if he doesn't do so to upgrade our pitching the season could be that 's that.

SCM, you are spot on with your take on freedom of expression here and I wish some of the posters here would take a hint, and I'm not talking about UN who at least gives a counter argument to try and upend an opinion he doesn't agree with. However, there is one poster on this board who just rails and roils when something negative is said about the Red Sox. I'm not going to mention who it is but that person knows who I'm talking about because X has spend the better part of the past three months being nasty and personal with a bunch of us who came over here after the 2011 season because we were told what a lively board this was. When someone makes a position of some topic the way to counter it if you disagree is to argue the point with some insight of your own. It does not mean getting nasty and angry at that person without making any defending comments on the topic yourself. Hell, right now all this is opinion anyway. No one knows how this is going to turn out, but I've always been under the impression that a forum is a place to argue the merits or demerits of a position. It is not a place to roil and boil with nasty comments and then being totally unable to counter with a sensible argument of your own. I hope that person I'm talking about is reading this.

UN, you and my pals Pumpsie and Elktonnick can banter about the relative comparisons of 2011 and 2004 and I will just take it all in despite my opinion on the matter. However, don't any of you try and compare either team with my 2007 team. Now that was a ball club; it led from the first week on and even though Francona did everything he could do to botch things up with his usual job of miserable field managing the team came through and won it all. To me that is the team you compare all modern Red Sox teams to.

Well we all pretty much agree that we need another quality starting pitcher because I think the risk is too great with two relievers suddenly thrust into the firing line as starters. I also think we need another relief pitcher as Jenks once again looks like he isn't going to be much help. The way I see it is this: 1. We need another quality starter and the sooner the better, and throw in a reliever in as well. 2. We need our "Big Three" to stay on course all season and all in one piece. 3. We finally need some good health from our lineup and comebacks from Crawford and Youkilis 4. Throw in a little luck going our way. The AL East is winnable despite what my pal Pumpsie says. Someone ask him of the predictions I made for last season. I think these things up above are doable.

700, those comments just go over the heads of some of the people here, but the real knowledgeable fans understand that. Except for 2007, Farrell's pitchers didn't distinguish themselves in any way I know of. You are also right on with the slide step. It was his and Tito's philopshy that stolen bases weren't a big thing to worry about which I always thought was bogus. You get to second and you are in scoring position and late in a game a base hit and you're back in the clubhouse as losers. We saw that a lot under his tutelege. Holding runners on was never a big deal with him and it cost us some games otherwise winnable if attention had been given to that.

Some posters on this board blanch and roil inside when you or anyone else casts aspersions at Cherington's prowess as a GM, but it is quite possible that he may be in over his head. I liked his trade for Bailey and Melancon, but his pussy footing over our starting pitching is forcing him to take a risk that could blow up in his face as the Ortiz bungle did. As you said starting was our #1 priority but Cherries doesn't at this time to have understood it, and as Big Papi El Fuego put it so aptly, all this talk from Lucchino could be nothing more than the stuff you use to fertilize your lawn in the spring.

I don't either BPEF. Call it cynical or not but I have reasons to doubt the veracity of Lucchino and Co. in anything they say. When it takes these keystone cops to take two months to name a new manager anyone has the right to say "show me the money". I don't know if those who believe them are gullible but they are certainly very trusting. I take the tack that former President Reagan was fond of saying....Trust but Verify.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one UN. First of all, the Orioles pulled out after only a few days of interest, and whether they were serious or just trying to get the Red Sox to up the ante and offer him arbitration we may never know. Please, though, don't say the Royals interest was anything but tepid at best and the Tigers really never showed very much interest except to make less than a cursory move on him. On your second point we would have enough offense to absorb his loss, especially with the return to form of Youkilis and Crawford, which I believe will take place. I still insist offering him arbitration was a bad move and it is causing ripple effects all over the team. It means Lavarnway is blocked for another year whether he is ready or not, and with Ryan on the team there would have been no rumors of taking Varitek back----and I'm keeping my eye on that one because until they finally say he is gone he is not gone. If Sabean was drooling over Ortiz it was just that drooling. He made no offer, no hint of an offer and, besides, do you think the Giants, who put a big premium on their great starting pitching, would put a defense dud like Ortiz on first base. Well, we can always agree UN and on this one we most certainly don't. I repeat, giving arbitration to Ortiz was a bad mistake that tied our hands, and until Lucchino puts his money where his mouth is about going over the cap I will continue to take that tack. When things change in that regard let me know and I'll issue my Mea Culpa.

You don't see our friend 700 stumble very much so you got him in a rare minor mistake. He is one of the most astute posters on this board, but it does point out something that, thank God, is way behind us. It is hard to comprehend how the Red Sox could be so color bigoted that they had a chance to sign players like Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron and passed? It is also hard to fathom how liberal Massachusetts is supposed to be and yet how bigoted Boston has been accused of being. Not my problem; I have my own cross to bear. When some people hear I'm a Republican there is some suspicion about me as well. I just open my wallet and show my picture, coin and stamp of Lincoln embedded in it and tell them to shove off.

No, no one does, but I gave my opinion for this foolish move. Am I right? Maybe, maybe not, but as you said it was all speculation. Now you put yourself against the wall...WHY DID THEY OFFER ORTIZ ABRIBRATION WHEN THEY REALLY DIDN'T NEED HIM AND WHEN THERE WAS NO MARKET FOR HIM? Since we needed pitching very badly much more than to sign a DH who will be useless when Inter-league play where there is no DH, and if they put him at first, we have to put Gonzales in RF. Doesn't sound very appealing to me; does it to you? Again, I insist signing Ortiz was a mistake.

I couldn't tell if my PM got through to you, but thanks my friend.

One good word about Doubrant. Last September the Red Sox, in the middle of their historic pratfall, went to Yankee Stadium for a three game series with the Yankees. They got creamed in the first game on Saturday, lost the first game Sunday, and went into the 14th inning when Jacoby hit a three run homer but with our team in free fall nothing was guaranteed. Doubrant went out there and got an easy one-two-three inning. You never know about him. He could help us. Give me Harden and Doubrant, good health from the "Big Three" and we can make a go of it. Also, ok, give me a RH hitting OF and another reliever too.

BINGO User, I suggested the same thing in a recent post. I think Harden might just be worth a real gamble because he has good stuff, is competitive and pitched pretty well down the stretch last season after we turned down a chance to get him. He ought not to be that expensive and I would like to see us get someone of substance before they all disappear from the free agent board.

BINGO User, I suggested the same thing in a recent post. I think Harden might just be worth a real gamble because he has good stuff, is competitive and pitched pretty well down the stretch last season after we turned down a chance to get him. He ought not to be that expensive and I would like to see us get someone of substance before they all disappear from the free agent board.

There you go again, trying to tell someone what is necessary or not. For the record, we are all trying to move on from last year's nightmare, but rather than swooping down and kissing the front office's patuna, many of us are critical as to what's happened to the team the past few years just in case you have been in suspended annimation and are expecting improvement in correcting their past mistakes. As for not finding it necessary to share your thoughts I find it very possible that you haven't any real thoughts of your own and instead of having diarrhea of the mouth, you have it in the brain. However, as I told my friend 700 yesterday it is time to just make believe you don't exist so I will not respond to anything you write any more and would appreciate it if you would do the same with me. We don't like each other, don't seem to respect one another, and hold the other in contempt. You see, there is nothing for us to discuss to buzz off and I will gladly to the same.

Opinionated *******!!!!! Very lady-like on your part. I never got nasty with you so you fired the first broadside in this pissing contest. I will surprise you, though, because I'm not going to retaliate back. Why would I allow a flea to harass the lion in his den. Those who you say cannot take my posts seriously because of the nicknames are being underestimated by you since I get good responses from them whether they agree with me or not.....AND THAT'S JUST THE POINT IN ALL THIS. TALK SOX is a forum where all different sorts of opinions are given and most are welcomed. You seem to always be in a snit if someone says something you don't like, and instead of countering why they might be wrong and weigh in with your take on the matter, instead you decide to get insulting because you really have nothing to add because you mind is vacant and is only programmed to insult.

And as far as I'm concerned that's great!!!!!! As I've said before I'm a little envious of those like you and others who have been part of this fandom for so long. I wish I had found the Red Sox sooner. I was mostly a NL fan and, sad to say, I rooted against the Sox in the '67, '75 and '86 series and now I feel like kicking myself over that. That post I wrote about the Sox in the 50's and 60's was pretty accurate and I wonder if you were aware of those things happenings or even care since you weren't a fan then either. My only point of disagreement with your post concerned those two has-beens. To me the fact they aren't signed is looked upon by me as something to worry about. Until if and when the book is closed on them once and for all I will be worrying that somehow they will find themselves back on the team......and that must never happen.

Ok my friend, I can see that. What do you think of Rich Harden? He is the guy I wanted us to get last year and last time I checked he was still out there. I think this guy could be a real surprise if he stays healthy. The guy has good stuff and is very competitive. I would like to see the Red Sox go after him, and in my opinion he would be a very pleasant surprise

Well said Jung. Amazing as it is to say there are posters here and elsewhere who seemed to be more cognizant of the fact that there was no real market for Ortiz' services than Cherington was. Maybe he got that old irritating feeling that if he didn't offer Papi arbitration he would, oh gee, God forbid, wind up in pinstripes. Which was ridiculous because the Yankees were up to their sweatbreads in DH candidates. By using that excuse all I am doing is trying in a left handed way to give Cherries cover because if it wasn't that it was just a plain stupid move. Hopefully after this coming season he will have learned and will not offer him arbitration again. Let Ortiz go wherever he wants; he would have few takers.

I've gotten to the point where I'M thinking of putting her on ignore. She is one intolerant lady. Look if she wants to be a pollyanna that's fine with me, but at least she should defend her position. The problem is she has no position except to regurgitate whatever the front office says is so. VA sees no evil, speaks no evil and hears none uttered in her presence. Trying to ascertain her own thoughts is like trying to take a hot bath with your clothes on or trying to eat a bowl of soup with a fork. Boy oh boy.....