seabeachfred

Forsythe--I can judge the FO on that deal. Stewart was absolutely pathetic in his two starts and didn't all that much down at Pawtucket either. As for Lillibidge, we discarded him pretty quickly, didn't we? My point is that we could have gotten a little better deal for Youkilis. That's only my opinion but I believe it to be the correct one. As for the Dodger trade, we were smart to get rid of Crawford's contract because he was injuried and ineffective when he was playing and was a bad fit for Boston. I think John Henry had this part of it right. Beckett needed to go because he was a bad virus in the clubhouse. However, keep in mind that we didn't get the Dodgers' best prospect on the mound either. That was Zack Lee---by far. Jerry Sands could develop into a good hitter. I think the Dodgers misused him pretty much the way the Red Sox sometimes misuse some of their young players. However, there is no way in hell that the Red Sox can to with James Loney at first base next season and be serious about making a comeback in the standings. The guy can't hit for an average anymore, cannot hit with power, cannot hit lefties, and has as much fire and charisma as sleep. We had better be certain we upgrade at first base and pronto.

Good exchange by you and Bellhorn but it shows how desperate we all are if Nava is one of the best things we can be discussing SCM. I mean we could have been talking about Kalish but once again the Red Sox's front office plans blew up in their faces the year before when they sent Ryan down to Pawtucket because Drew had one more year on his bloated contract---despite the fact that he was an injury waiting to happen. It did and he was useless, but in the meantime Kalish got hurt on the farm and didn't play the rest of 2011 and still hadn't healed this season. That is why we're talking about Nava. It Kalish would have been kept on the Red Sox in 2011 after his surprisingly good half season with us in 2010 we wouldn't need to be talking about a scrub. Come to think of it we seem to make these kind of mistakes yearly. In 2010, boy blundeer genius Epstein decided to move Ellsbury, coming off a solid season, to left field to "save his legs"---if you remember that gem spouted by Theo the Dunce. Well Ells got stealrolled by Beltre and was lost for the season. Think if Mike Cameron would have been out there and gotten hurt we might have been better off? I keep waiting for our bumbling front office to make a good decision for a change. Maybe in 2013 or '14 or '15---maybe by the next decade.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

Stewart and Lillibridge for Youkilis?? Another one of Cherington's dreadful trades. Look, maybe Kevin needed to go to make room for Middlebrooks at third. I saw and see nothing wrong with that, but even though Youk didn't have a super season he showed enough in the power department that we should have gotten more than these two pieces of excess garbage. Then when you consider we traded Gonzales and got the putrid Loneybaloney to take his place, I think I would have rather had Kevin playing first for us the rest of the year than that Loney bum. Why does it seem that just about every move the Red Sox front office makes blows up in their faces? They simply cannot be that incompetent.

It is never fun being negative. It is just a way to vent your spleen when angered and frustrated and our team did a good job of making us feel that way this season. I can only speak for myself but for the life of me I never believed we could have turned out this badly-----69-93?????? We're going to have a big job ahead of us digging our way out of this pile of garbage. I still wonder if Cherington is the man to make this happen. I don't think much of the guy as I said earlier this summer before I took my hiatus.

Elk, as we have said on the other board, we are pretty sure the problems our team faces starts at the very top---with an owner who has gone AWOL, a CEO who is more interested in PR and 100 year celebrations than he is in disposing of the cancers that are eating away at our Red Sox. We have a GM who is nothing more than gofer or patsy, take you pick, and we have players who have become so entitled one has to wonder if they will start wailing until someone gives them their baby bottle. I have made some nice friends on this board and I don't believe they deserve to hear my diabtribes laced in the anger I feel for those boobs who have driven the team into the pits. That is why so as to not to dump my fury on them by having them listen to my rants I will quietly leave this board for the rest of the year. It is no fun when you can see what the team needs, what it lacks, what's not being done, and can do nothing about it. The crime is that those in charge have lost their way Elk. Simple as that. Here's wishing all of you a wonderful summer and best of luck to our beloved team.

Well many of us have complained about our inept medical staff and little was done about it. Oh sure, we replaced a few of the butchers and inept bums but we kept a number of them, and the whole sorry lot had the same philosophy about what constitutes good medical practice for the players. The whole kit and caboodle should have been fired forthwith and wasn't. So we have some new people and many of the old people and the same sick and sorry take on things. How Prune Face Henry could allow himself to see his whole edifice come crashing down on him, his team and the fans and not either see it coming or having seen it, ignoring its implications. Now we are inept in the medical department, inept in the front office, and, yes, inept with a second rater like Henry in overall charge.

We saw this with Kalish last season. He was coming off a decent second half rookie season for us, but Epstein and Co. had that big salary they were paying the dreadful Drew so they sent Ryan down and he got seriously hurt. We are reaping that stupidity even now. Once again money trumped common sense and talent. So Sox Sport, why should you be surprised to see the Red Sox front office once again screw the pooch. Some of us have come to the conclusion that we now have the most inept leadership of any front office starting with Prune Face himself in the owner's chair.

A-Rod has made some real contributions off his big contract. Crawford was a one year total flop, and in his second y ear he has been completely AWOL----not one game for the Red Sox. At this rate his signing is going to be a total disaster, and consider this.....the fans are going to demand that he step up and make amends for his miserable performance for us so far. If he plays as he did last year or winds up on the DL as he did this season he is going to become one major target for the ill will of the fans. He had better get his rear end together.

He's done guys....pure and simple. He is never going to be the same pitcher he was or could have been. For that alone Cherington should be fired, though there is enough to prove his incompetence to have him canned dozens more. Just think for a moment just how far our team has fallen in less than five years. We are now the butt of jokes, a laughing stock, and an abomination as a baseball team. We should start dumping malcontents like Ortiz, Beckett and other cancers on the club so not to infect our young and upcoming players. Both Papi and Beckett could b ring us some decent prospects in exchange. There are three or four teams I think that would jump at the chance to get one of those players. After this season it will too late. The rebuilding has to begin now because we are through this year......done, finished, nada, nein, nyet, no mas.

Hey guys, first let me tell all of you that I am most definitely not a religous fanatic or some Bible thumping phony. I am a flawed indiviidual and a sinner. I most definitely am. I am a strong believer in the Lord, however, and would be a lot worse without Him and that is important for what I'm going to say......I REALLY THINK THAT GOD IS PUNISHING THE RED SOX SEVERELY FOR THEIR PLOFIGATE AND ARROGANT WAYS WHEN THEY WERE ON TOP OF THE BASEBBALL WORLD. They did stupid things with personnel, kept favorite and sacred cows and traded away prospects that might have been helpful down the road. Epstein acted like he was Alexander the Great, Lucchino like Stalin and Henry as if he were an Emperor. In the meantime our team became a hated ball club by others, whether it was because of jealousy or because of what they perceived as our arrogance and self-importance. No team in baseball has suffered the amount of critical injuries as we have....no team!!!!! There has to e some reason for it whether it is bad karma, the wrath of the gods, bad luck or a combination of different things. To regain any semblance of respectability in the eyes of nature and nature's God there is going to have to be a self cleansing of some kind so that whoever determines these things starts smiling on our team because right now we see to get nothing but angry looks and snears. Yes, this sounds off the wall, and it also does to me, but can anyone give a better take on w hy we suffer mishaps so much more than o ther teams?

Ellsury is still pretty young Pumpsie and he is made of glass.....he doesn't seem to heal at all, the candy ass s***.

I don't think that's a steep price at all; in fact, I'd go the other way and say it might cost us a Jackie Bradley as well. We're talking about a superb No. 1 type ace, perhaps as good a pitcher as there is in baseball. What are we giving them? Ellsbury? Yes, a terriic player......when he is healthy but we know now he is very fragile and his injuries seem to take forever to heal. He is simply injury prone and a candy ass when it comes to getting back in action before months have passed. Y es, though, he might like to return to the NW but he is also a FA after 2013. Would the Mariners be able to resign him? Would he stay in one piece for them or hit the DL as part of his yearly routine? Lester? Face it.....the guy is either snake bitten or the Gods in Heaven are paying him back with humongous interest for his sleazy part in throwing his surrogate father Francona under the bus last September. He simply hasn't been the same, and, worse, when he g ets into a jam the result seems to be major damage. He might come around again but he might also be on his way down. He, too, is from the NW, might like to get a fresh start in a less intense atmosphere where he might regain his popularity. He has become a very disliked figure in Boston. So to me it would take three players to getKing Felix and if it would take those three to get him I would fly to Boston and personally pack their suitcases myself to make this thing a go.

I keep getting the hair on my neck raised when so many of you keep saying we can trade Ryan Lavarnway for this or that reason. First of all I'm still not sold on Salty. Yes, he has power but he also hits better lefthanded and when Crawford and Ellsbury get back we are going to be too lefthanded for our own good. You put Kalish in there and where is the RH sock save for two or three players? We spend over a decade trying to come up with a RH power hitter who could take advantage of Fenway Park, finally have one and he is either being blocked from coming to Boston or traded every other damn day. Ryan is a player who will be a 30 homer 100 RBI man and those do not grow on trees. Besides, even with Garza or Grienke we are still not going to be able to compete for a playoff spot unless Lester, Beckett and Buchholz get their s*** together---and so far they have not. I would like to go with the kids w hen it finally dawns on others that this year is not going to be a year for the Red Sox, but we play our cards right and allow Papi to leave after this season along with Dice K and Youk's money coming off the rolls we will have enough bread to get a good pitcher in FA and trade for another one. Lavarnway, Kalish and Middlebrooks stay---to me those are non starters for any trade talks. Just my opinion....and my strong opinion.

You go back a long way BOSOX11 and sound like you might close to your 60's which puts you within striking distance of my 71. I do wonder how you became a Red Sox fan? You apparently didn't see them very often and there had to be a seminal moment when it all came together. Sounds like it could a lot like my own epiphony back in 2000 but I was reaching 60 that year and has gone over four decades without a real team to root for. Was it the All Star Game or one of those Angels-Red Sox games in the early 60's? They were a gosh awful terrible team back them and it must have taken a lot of love to hitch yourself to that sad aggregation. I came on a season and a half before they became a dominant team in baseball, though it was Fenway Park and the fans that reminded me so much of young years in Queens when I was a little fanatical Brooklyn Dodgers fan. I live in Arcadia so I am a Los Angeleno who also wants nothing to do with the Angels or Dodgers. I leave that up to my wife.

You got to hand it to Forsyth. He really carries optimmism and hope to an extreme, doesn't he? Well I'm not here to knock him. I hope he is absolutely right as he was in a couple of other instances. In my opoinion, however, I think it is very premature to label Morales as a "find". It ia going to take a good month or two of solid pitching to see if Dame Fortune is finally smiling on us f or a change. When it came to Buccholz, Beckett and especially Lester all I saw on that lady was a frown and a snarl. Yes, we could sure use a little luck to come down the chimney to us.

Some pretty heavy s*** is appararently behind much of Buchholz' travails. It goes from smokeless tobacco, maybe diet, perhaps alcohol, Advil, and Go knows what else. Maybe our half-ass medical staff can finally step in and be more of an asset than a liability to get this guy off whatever bad habits he has and get on the straight and narrow. In this case his health must come first but Clay also know that he might be risking career as well. Maybe this scare will get him thinking right. I sure hope so because this is serious stuff.

Hell Deep Southerner, I would have been run off this board lickity split if there was no tolerance for fans who didn't follow a strict Boston fandom line. In basketball alone I could hear my colleagues coming after me with a rifle or a rope. I am an ardent and passionate Lakers fan and try running that by most fans of the Celtics around here. In Hockey I root for the Anaheim Ducks (no, not the Kings). In football I'm a Raiders fan and last time I checked I'm still alive. Baseball was the easiest for me since I became a Red Sox fan that August day in 2000. For decades I didn't even have a team after the Dodgers left Brooklyn, and I could never root for the LA version. I tried once and wound up hating them more. The Angels are my wife's team and I feel nothing for them. I do think, though, that if you root for a team in each sport there is always one team that shines above the rest. Proud to say for me it is the Red Sox.

I say no Brown---and not because I wouldn't want such a trade to go through. I just don't think the Phillies would accept Ross and Nava for him UNLESS that X prospect was Baergots (sic) and even then we would have to drop either Ross or Nava and add another prospect to the pile. Two decently good prospects and one veteran might do it, but I really can't see the Phillies doing it. They have shown a willingness to spend and spend big and unlike the Red Sox they will not pull back their money every other year. The Phillies will spend what they need to do every year and something tells me they will go all out to resign Hamels. Still I would love to have that lefthander because we need a drop dead ace and we don't have one now.

I usually agree with you Forsyth; not this time. Grienk has anxiety issues and that would be quadrupled if he played in Boston. One or two bad games and the fans and press would be all over him and the risk of him going into a shell would be magnified. I agree he has a helluva lot of talent out there on the mound but by now it has to be obvious that there are guys who can play in Boston and New York and there are those guys who cannot play in Boston and New York. And Grienke is one of them.

With all the criticism about the cutter screwing up our pitchers' velocity and effectiveness, what was the first efen thing that imbecile McClure suggested to Aaron Cook when he got back in action? That's right, learn to throw the cutter. What's with the guy anyway? You're right---he needs to be canned as soon as possible. BTW, as he returned to the Red Sox yet Elk? I'm hopoing he finds it in his own interest to get as far away from Boston as possible.

Good humor guys and two gem pictures SCM. I think right now a little humor might relax all of us considering all the inju ries we've had this season. For Buchholz, however, it could actually have been life threatening and that is no laughing matter as we all know. This time I hope he is fully mended and healthy before he trudges out to the mound, and that make it a dilemma for us because we seem to be running out of starting pitchers unless Beckett comes back and the rest stay healthy. Did all of you see how Sabathia is gtoing to be out for eight weeks and that Pettitte broke his ankle and will be out for awhile---or do I have this backwards? Maybe the Yankees can have a few setbacks as we've had even though none of us like anyone to get hurt on any team.

Very true SCM but the revisionists on this board will say that none of us said that---which is pure bulls@it!!!!!! Lots of us said that Bard not a starter and he would fail in that spot and it was paramount for the Red Sox to go out and spend money on a starter--which Prune Face Henry steadfastly refused to do. Bard was a good set-up 8th inning man and that is where they should have kept him. If any change was to be made in his role they might have tried to see if he could close a few games in ST. A case where an inmate ran the asylum, sure, the team let him fail so miserably that he did in fact get the idea of starter out of his head but at what a price? He is close to being a basket case right and I think that for him it is going to be a long way back.

A hell of a question about McTurd, isn't it? One thing is certain. Someone or some people in the front office love this guy and why I have no idea. He is a s***** fielder, a piss poor hitter, a dumb ass baserunner and he really brings nothing to the table except that he sometimes can hit an average left hander. This is one guy who should be sent packing when Crawford and Ellsbury finally come back from exile but it woldn't surprise me one twit if somehow this bum is still with us. Could it be that Lucchino or Cherington or even Henry is sleeping with Darling Darnell's wife? It boggles the mind why he is still on the team. :thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown