seabeachfred

Hamels is a non starter in my opinion UNLESS we can ink him to a long term contract if we happen to be able to get him at the deadline. Frankly I don't think we will because Prune Face doesn't seem to want to spend the money. It just seems dumb to take a chance on making the Playoffs with a rent a pitcher when we have so many other holes in our rotation. Maybe it would be better if we wait to see who is available in free agency while we try and add some more y outh to our team and build for the future. Now if Beckett, Lester and Buchholz could also come around..........

I'm still waiting for Youk and now you to tell me what YOU both think is Bard's problem. Neither one of you have and yet we know that right now he is mentally and mechanically all screwed up, and while I haven't seen him at Pawtucket I saw enough of him on the games I get on NESN to know that we was and apparently is still unraveling. To me he looked like he didn't even want to be out on that mound, and, yes, it looked like that to me in his body language. I also said he might be CLOSE to coming apart; maybe redeemable, maybe not, and it IS MY OPINION THAT UNLESS CORRECTIVE MEASURES ARE TAKEN SOON YOU CAN KISS HIM OFF. That is MY opinion bases on w hat I saw of him and from my experience in working with players for a good deal of my life. Just because you don't like what I say does not make it inaccurate. We'll see how this turns out but right now we will just have to agree to disagree. Since you said there is a mental component and his head is not screwed on right it appears to me that you just want to disagree to be disagreeable instead of conceding that 700, Pumpsie and I could be on to something.

Youk, I never said I KNEW what was going on in Bard's head, just that he has all the signs of a player who is close to unraveling completely. If you have a better idea, I'm all ears, but you don't. All we both know is that he isn't worth s*** right now either to himself, his team or his teammates. And it doesn't matter where I coached ( junior college, SR Babe Ruth, Stan Musial, high school if you're interested). ALL players on ALL levels are susceptible to mental anguish and breakdowns, and in my experiences working with young athletes from 14 to 35 over the years I've seen enough of these types to draw some conclusions even if you don't like the conclusions I've drawn. In short, Bard right now is menace to himself, his teammates and his team. He is close to being totally ruined as a pitcher. THAT IS MY OPINION and if you disagree with me, that's fine, but I'll tell you if that is so I am a lot closer to knowing his problems than you are.

Well since you asked I'll be happy to tell you. How about over 30 years of managing and coaching baseball teams. How about a half-dozen years doing voluntary scouting for some of my friends in that profession. The talent level may be different but what motivates or tears down players on all levels is what goes on in their heads. Ever heard of the term HEAD CASE? Believe me, what sidetracks high school, college and ex pro players, all of whom I coached at one time or another, is not only physical problems but mental ones, and they may be more damaging to a player that a physical ailment, wrong mechanics either on the mound or at bat, or just a lack of will. Bard shows all the signs of a player undergoing what amounts to a mental and physical collapse. If you played a lot of baseball think of the times when you couldn't put the ball where you wanted and got lit up--if you were a pitcher. Or couldn't seem to get going at the plate. In football you could take out your frustrations by hitting someone. In baseball there is no such recourse. I hoped I answered your question.....and for the record Coco I really hope Bard gets it together. I just afraid we may have lost him.

He's mentally f***ED Jacko. The guy is finished. Anyone who holds out hope he is coming back is whistling past the graveyard. Pukington had his fingerprints all over this miserable experiment with BarF as a starter---which in my opinion he was not qualified to make such a move and BarF was not qualified from experience of being a starter. Now the guy seemed ruined beyond hope. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but this looks like one tragedy that's unfolding and one good y oung pitcher who will be destroyed because of two bad decisions---one by the GM, the other by the pitcher himself who wanted to be a starter but didn't have the make-up for it. As Clint Eastwood (Dirty Harry) said in the 1973 movie, Magnum Force, A MAN HAS TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS.

Well said Forsyth. This constant shuffling of our lineup and positioning of players wasn't doing us any good and I'm convinced that mentally it was playing havoc with Gonzales. Now we can have set lineup and everyone know where they are playing---with one caveat.......that we don't sustain any major injuries to our key players. There is another consideration I haven't heard much of on this thread. We assume that teams were lining up to trade for Youkilis and that is pure ********!!!! His market was small and even the puny hitting Dodgers with James "Pencil Neck" Baloney considered that bum more valuable than to trade for Kevin. I just wonder if there was another team that we could have traded him to. Barring unforseen circumstances this trade will give us some continuity that we didn't have before.

Glad to hear you think of yourself as clarvoyant but on this case all you are is full of s***!!!!!. The fact is EX1 is that this trade had to be made as I said on another thread for days. My surprise came when the swap was made without it being botched completely. Yes, I do not think much of Cherington so that we got so little for Youk is not surprising. It just had to be done to alleviate a log jam at third base, not to mention our starting lineup with all the switching off that has taken place the past few weeks. Now we Gonzales back on first where he belongs, Papi at DH and Middlebrooks at third and we finally have inserted a good young player into our lineup for the first time since 2007. I will also say that I think this team needs a real baseball man to take over the general running of the team instead of some computer nerd who most likely never played or coached much baseball. Well try again my friend and next time you may be right and will be hitting 500.

And yippee for me because I was completely wrong about this and very happy that I was. We have it on good authority that Youk was traded to the White Sox for two players---a reliever and spot starter named Stewart, and a combination IF-OF named Brent Lillibridge, once a high valued prospect with the Atlanta Braves but who never did much in Chicago, nor was he given that much of a chance. This had to be done and I couldn't have been more happy that I was full of crap on this issue. Youkilis had to go and we knew we would not get that much for him. I'm glad the FO saw it that way as well.

Kalish has missed a lot of games the past year and a half and some more time at Pawtucket would make him ready for a full time job with us next year. He doesn't need to be jerked off in and out of the lineup. Besides, I don't see how anyone on this board would advocate letting Ross and Nava go. They have been productive and solid. Nava is a switch hitter with two more hits today while Ross has shown that he is tailor made for Fenway. McDonald, the front office's pet, must be sent away and if anyone wants Nava or Ross it would have to be part of a big trade for a big time pitcher like Hamels, assuming he might be available. Even that has a qualification to it. There must be no rent a pitcher for three months. We have to rebuild and right now we do not have the kind of team that can even make the playoffs, let alone go deep into it. If Hamels becomes available we need his name on a new contract or we take our chances in FA this winter.

Give 'em hell BTR!!!!!! Well said! For Kevin's sake I hope he does get traded and does fine, but more for Middlebrooks not having to look over his shoulder for the possibility that once again Valentine will lose the nerve I thought he had and start trying to make everyone happy by rotating the players and in fact making no one happy and making himself look like a total fool. This is a main opportunity for Bobby to finally take control and stop being an errand boy as FrancoMa was.

I live in the Los Angeles area (Arcadia), about 17 miles from Los Angeles and the Dodgers are the home team around this area and I know they need hitting in the worst way. T hey also have a half-ass first baseman named James Loney, who can't hit, can't with power, can't run, and must be their sacred cow because there is no reason he should even be in the lineup. Youk would be a good pick for them and he can also play 3B because the Dodger third sacker Juan Uribe is a slug. We could ask f or a prospect like Jery Sands, a 1B and OF, but my fear is that our stupid GM might ask for Loney and create another controversy over playing time. But a Sands for Youk trade might work.

Beatz, I don't think you understand the ramifications of this problem. In short, as long as Youkilis is on the team there is a third base controversy and a very unhappy outspoken player on the bench, or if he is playing, our best young player sitting instead. It could tear the team apart further into two camps on that issue alone. Whether it is Thornton or whoever, Youkilis has to go....PERIOD!!!!!!!!!! To keep him around is to court trouble and whoever doubts that is living in a dream world.

Personally I'm not bidding Youkilis a fair adieu until he is finally out of Boston---which right now he most certainly isn't. Calling to mind how Prune Face Henry refused on four occasions back in 2010 to agree to eat any part of Mike Lowell's last year of his contract and negated four deals because of it , I am a little doubtful at this time that much has changed with respect to the befuddled owner. They also have a ready made out if they want it. The Sox have said they would rather have Youkilis in the NL instead of the AL, and right there I see a red flag. They can always say they did not want to trade him within the league and now that the three or four NL teams will give us fair value for him, well, we are going to hold onto him. For the record, I have always been a Youkilis fan and his emergency solid play in the middle of the 2004 season when we lost my all time favorite Red Sox player, Bill Mueller, for a month, helped keep our team above water. He also played a solid role in 2007 when he was a solid No. 6 man in the lineup for us and a Gold Glove type first baseman. How, however, he is keeping our best prospect in and out of the lineup and it's time to start bailing some of our veterans out of Boston and give our young players a solid chance to prove themselves. Our starting pitching has proven already that we are not going anywhere this season so this would be the optimum time to start clearing the deck chairs and not winding up being baseball's version of the Titanic.

Personally I'm not bidding Youkilis a fair adieu until he is finally out of Boston---which right now he most certainly isn't. Calling to mind how Prune Face Henry refused on four occasions back in 2010 to agree to eat any part of Mike Lowell's last year of his contract and negated four deals because of it , I am a little doubtful at this time that much has changed with respect to the befuddled owner. They also have a ready made out if they want it. The Sox have said they would rather have Youkilis in the NL instead of the AL, and right there I see a red flag. They can always say they did not want to trade him within the league and now that the three or four NL teams will give us fair value for him, well, we are going to hold onto him. For the record, I have always been a Youkilis fan and his emergency solid play in the middle of the 2004 season when we lost my all time favorite Red Sox player, Bill Mueller, for a month, helped keep our team above water. He also played a solid role in 2007 when he was a solid No. 6 man in the lineup for us and a Gold Glove type first baseman. How, however, he is keeping our best prospect in and out of the lineup and it's time to start bailing some of our veterans out of Boston and give our young players a solid chance to prove themselves. Our starting pitching has proven already that we are not going anywhere this season so this would be the optimum time to start clearing the deck chairs and not winding up being baseball's version of the Titanic.

I came on pretty strong earlier with my missive that Bard was through and done, finished, etc. It was only opinion, and truth be told, I hope I am as wrong as I could be. It ju st brings back some searing memories about Craig Hanson and Cla Meredith and how those two prospects were set adrift with their mishandling. Of course, Bard could make a comeback next year, but I wonder what's going on in his head. Say what you will about the physical aspects of baseball, but this is also a mind game as well. You get screwed up in the head and you're bailing water out of the boat from then on.

You can wait EX1 if you want, I don't need to. BarF is done!!!!!!! Don't expect him to rebound back to form. He always was perceived as being a little short on grey matter and inside he is mentally weak. His mind, mechanics and sense of wish fulfillment are all up in smoke. Maybe I'll eat my words but I don't think so.

Forsyth, the fact is that Nava is a better player THIS year for us than Crawford was LAST year for us. Face it, Carl was a plane crash last season--at bat, in the field and on the bases. He really stunk. At their best Crawford is a better ballplayer but when he comes back he had better start producing and not show us that last year's rotten performance was an indicator of things to come. I also wonder if he cannot play in Boston; there are a lot of players who have proven that over the years that they cannot handle the critical press and demanding fans. Let's also be honest about things. The Crawford signing was not in our team's best interests because we signed a clone of Ellsbury who didn't have the power or speed that Jacoby had. I also means that Jacoby is as good as gone after 2013, if not sooner.

Don't expect BarF to be back any time soon. In fact, it is my opinion that he is about finished with the Red Sox. Pukington is the culprit here because he was the one who insisted that this guy could start and most of us knew that he couldn't because he couldn't when he was down in Class "A". He was a solid set-up man and the team couldn't leave well enough alone. Another young Red Sox player ruined beyond redeption. Anyone for Kalish, Middlebrooks, or Nava? God help us all.