See Red

Had you just initially responded "Surely you're aware that I was just posting in jest..." you wouldn't look like such an arrogant moron. As it is... you're an idiot. The chips fall where they fall -- if England did all of those things in the interest of "helping" the United States, it'd be one thing, but don't mistake England's failures for helping. Again, even bringing it up? Dumb.

Up to 6 hours and 43 minutes. 33 all.

That's not really helping. If England beat a team that the US needed to lose... that'd be "helping". Even then... dumb. "Hey, good thing our goalie misplayed a ball against you and we didn't play well enough against Algeria! It's cool, don't mention it!"... that's not "helping". Regardless, it'd all be moot had Edu's goal not been disallowed.

How'd England help us out?

GOAL!!!!!!!!!! Holy s***!!!!!!!!!

Noooo, Dempsey... so close.... I'm sure they'd have found some reason to disallow it regardless.

Almost gave up another early goal, but we look good otherwise. We just got f***ed out of a goal on a very questionable off-sides call.

I'd never even heard of that team tennis until I just now looked it up, but there's a few big names that play... James Blake, Maria Sharapova, the Williams sisters. Interesting.

Italy dives so damn much.

He shoots threes because he makes them at a good percentage and makes him even more multi-dimensional. Even with his "terrible shot selection", his points per FG attempt suggests he's just about as efficient, regardless of whether he's taking good shots or bad. So if Kobe is taking stupid, tougher shots, and scoring as efficiently as Jordan, doesn't that, physically at least, make Kobe the better shooter? And Kobe can create as well as anybody. When he drives to the hoop, sets his feet, and fades away... that shot isn't defendable because he can shoot with a hand in his face. You're only hope is that he's off that night. And if you play him for that shot, he's going to the hoop and typically either finishing or heading to the line. Again, Kobe faces more complex defenses and stronger, more athletic players where unless you're an athletic freak like D-Wade or Lebron (which admittedly, Kobe isn't so much anymore as he used to be, but the rest of his game is considerably more polished) it's not easy making your living by getting to the basketball. How have defenses gotten more complex? The zone defense was outlawed in the NBA from, like, 1943 to 2002. Jordan still faced them, but they had to be somewhat disguised to the point where it limited their effectiveness. And you didn't see Jordan get double teamed without possession of the ball like you see in todays NBA. That's completely beside the point. The point is that those Bulls teams had loads of talent, and would've been a good team even without Jordan. People like to point to those six rings, but nobody likes to acknowledge that those teams were pretty loaded. That steals is a completely misleading stat. Yes I'm well aware of that. My point is that he showed two Dream Team rosters and said the talent in the League is comparable between the eras based on that. But in doing that he's leaving off all of the great international players that exist in the game today and didn't back in the early 90's... some of the best players in the league... Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Manu Ginobli, Steve Nash, Tony Parker, etc. And yes, there's no contest between the players of today and the players of yesterday. There's no equalizer for the athleticism that exists in the league today.

One of my favorite pictures... Manute Bol and Muggsy Bogues. http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/manute-bol-n-muggsy-bogues.jpg

My stance all along has been that statistics don't tell the entire story, has it not? That stance hasn't wavered. And again, if they did tell the entire story, Wilt was by far the greatest player ever to lace 'em up. My point, in mentioning those numbers, is that even for those who use numbers to argue that Jordan was by and large better than Kobe was, even the statistics don't reflect it. People like to throw out the shooting percentage and suggest Jordan was a better shooter, but their points per attempt are damn near the same. Their PPG in games in which they attempted 20+ shots is pretty much identical. Again, different players, different circumstances, and different eras, regardless of how close together those eras were. That's really an argument you want to make? You really should pick your battles because sports science, nutrition, and fitness have improved ten-fold. Just look at pictures of the guys in the two lineups you posted. http://lolabrigada.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/ewing.jpghttp://static.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/dwight-howard-shirtless.jpg http://donchavez.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/bird.jpghttp://www.jumpingadvantage.com/Lebron/Lebron-James-Dunking2.jpg Okay... that one's not fair. But you've got 7'6" Chinese All-Stars and 5'9" guys winning dunk contests for more than just being able to dunk. The league is full of athletic freaks and all it does is make the court smaller. But the 2010 "Dream Team" would wipe the floor with the original. And that original dream team was all the best players in the league. You're list leaves off guys like Pau Gasol, Manu Ginobli, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, and Tony Parker. Keeper, how much expansion has occured in the league since Jordan retired? How is the talent more diluted? The 90's is when the league's talent was the most watered down, the influx of international players has helped settle that.

Jordan's a better shooter? Of course Jordan shot a better % from the field because Kobe's attempted 2,051 more three pointers than Jordan did in his career -- three pointers are, by nature, a lower percentage shot. And naturally that's going to bring his shooting percentage down as well. A much better indicator would be points per field goal attempt, where Jordan does have an advantage so slight it's silly to hold it against kobe. Kobe was better from three, as you mentioned, and if you don't think Kobe has a great mid-range game you clearly haven't been watching him play. It has also been said that Kobe, having worked with Hakeem Olajuwon, has one of the best post up games of any guard ever. Free throws are even. Jordan's a better leader? He punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in practice, ran Doug Collins out of town because Collins wanted a more team-oriented approach, called Kwame Brown a "flaming faggot" when Brown was just out of High School (and drafted by Jordan, hm...), and there has to be more than that -- that's without even mentioning the secret suspension for gambling. Kobe "ran" Shaq out of town, but considering Shaq's had bad breakups with every team since leaving the Lakers, it's beginning to look less and less like Kobe's fault. Jordan turned the ball over less? Kobe's averaged 2.9 per game, Jordan averaged 2.7. What an overwhelming margin... Jordan's a better defender? Kobe, like Jordan, is an annual fixture on the first team all-defensive team. Jordan was great, don't get me wrong, but Pippen was the better defender of the two and is the one who typically defended the opposing teams best player. Jordan had more steals per game than Kobe, but so did Allen Iverson and he wasn't much of a defensive presence, was he? Kobe also plays in an era where you can't hand check opponents and aren't allowed to be as physical. For assists, in their primes the numbers are about equal. Kobe's career numbers in all categories are hindered a bit by the fact that he entered the league as an 18 year old. Yeah, the eras aren't so different, but not counting Jordan's stint with the Wizards, Kobe was 18 and 19 years old in Jordan's last two years. The game has actually changed a bit since then. As I said, more complicated defenses, bigger, stronger, faster players. By the way, win shares is a pretty worthless stat in basketball.

Look at Game Two of the 2008 NBA Finals -- it happens. I'm usually willing to call it one way or the other regardless of who I'm cheering for, and I didn't think the officiating was bad towards one team or another. A lot of the fouls were in the fourth quarter, when the Celtics were very passive and the Lakers were considerably more aggressive, and that typically results in more free throws for one team.

Different players, different circumstances. Jordan was on a team where he was asked to carry the scoring load more -- doesn't mean he wasn't surrounded by talent, as I'll again remind you that the Bulls finished second in the Eastern Conference while he was suspended. Kobe played with another guy who scored 25 a game. Kobe plays in an era of more complicated defenses and bigger, stronger, faster players. Honestly... where was Jordan's game so much better?

He really shouldn't. There's certain ways to talk to the refs. He doesn't jump around and swing his arms and make the referees look bad.

I'm not saying Kobe hasn't played with good players, I mentioned earlier that the Bulls won 55 games in Jordan's absence, but those Celtics teams were loaded. Wilt's teams simply weren't. But when the two played head to head 142 times, Wilt averaged 28 points, 28 rebounds, while Russell averaged 14 points, 23 rebounds. If Kobe played with all of those guys at the same time... then you'd be on to something. But Robert Horry? He was just about good exclusively for his ability to hit big shots, he was maybe an average otherwise.

Aww s***... When asked what this means personally for Kobe... "I got one more than Shaq." Awesome.

You mean if he didn't get suspended? People forget that those Bulls teams without Jordan were pretty damn good. They won 55 games without him one of those years. They won 57 games the year before with him.

They're keeping themselves in it...

He played great defense. Give the guy a break.