example1

I didn't read it in the context that you did. I took him to say that Papelbon is the best closer in the game and therefore worth whatever it would take to keep him. I contested his point. EDIT: I changed my original post "I missed the context" because looking back I think I interpreted it correctly, and still think his point was made unclearly over and over again. If you're talking about length of contract and value moving forward then say it. I'm not convinced that's what he was saying.

I don't make those statements lightly. I think about them and then think about them again before hitting submit. It isn't a usual part of how I make my point, but when you question the intellectual honesty of posters here--such as saying that I'm being disingenuous or obtuse--or saying that I won't answer a question because I'm like a politician, you write that as if I can't read what you're saying. It was clear in that instance that he DID NOT say what he meant to say, and yet I'm the one accused of being obtuse because I didn't read his mind. It's ******** and you know it. In post after post he said he's the best closer in the game today, I countered with another poster and suddenly it is about most valuable going forward. I don't fault him for changing it to the next 4 years, he was clear to reframe the question. It is you, being stubborn and argumentative, that kept the s*** going. That's what gets to me and made me bring out words that were unflattering about you. Apologies that they offended you.

I don't trust your ability to judge baseball or people (idiots). You hold absurdly high standards that nobody could live up to, and it makes you the resident blowhard. Iortiz either hasn't realized this, or he's another version of you. I haven't figured out which yet. His point and his statement were two different things. I interpret what he wrote, not what he thought. Excuse me. I should have said "responded to". His question was so utterly stupid that I assumed it to be rhetorical. Apparently I should have melded-minds with him, like you can. Point taken. You are right. 2005 when Foulke was recovering from overuse in 2004. By 2006 they had found their solution.

Your English is more than good enough to not confuse "these days" with "for the next 4 years moving forward". You quickly clarified it when pressed.

Not here he didn't, and this is what I quoted, a700. There's nothing cute about being right.

He is arguably the best closer projecting forward the next 4 years. Others might challenge that, including Rivera (who never seems to get old) but Papelbon is very, very good. For every degree that "mind matters" in a closer, Rivera is considerably better than everyone else in the game, still. I would rather have him on the mound when it counts than Papelbon, right now. Your post didn't mention 4 years going forward, though you and a700 high fived each other about my inablity to ready your mind.

I can't say I have the answers. I'm just saying that anyone with brains saw this move coming like a slow moving freight-train from a few years back. Papelbon seemed to have wanted out (he didn't "explore" the market for long) and the Sox seemed fine with letting him go. I'm okay with them not paying him more than he's worth. I think you are overvaluing the value of a pitchers "make-up" in the end game. yes, it is important but Jason Motte was the closer for this year's world series, and Neftali Feliz blew his team's most important game. Which would you take first? Feliz, right? Me too. Oops, I answered him before I saw you put your foot in your mouth. What a dumbass. It's not like this is the type of question I would shy away from.

I didn't read anything in your post about how long a contract you would sign a guy for. You said multiple times that he might be the best at his position, and I countered with Rivera. That's all.

I would pick Rivera over Papelbon in a big game situation 10 times out of 10. That's not to say Papelbon is bad, he's just not as money as Rivera.

I don't love the idea of Papelbon pitching elsewhere, but I didn't love it 4 years ago when it was virtually certain that he would be leaving unless the Sox drastically overpaid for him. I'm happy he didn't end up in NY like many feared he would. Fortunately: a) The Sox have a really good potential closer in waiting and this is a closer rich free agency period with relatively few buyers.

Exactly. This place is a bitchfest. You don't overpay for a guy who is demanding to be one of the highest paid in his position when you could net draft picks and replace him with a 7th or 8th inning guy instead, while also having a guy who is younger, has better stuff, and who might sign for a longer term contract.

Ha! I hope someone dusts that off!

They lost the best GM the team has had and you applauded. If papelbon shuts down Baltimore twice then the sox are in the playoffs, yet he is the golden boy. I had to turn away from the set more often than not with Paps in close games. It's a loss but how big a loss we do not yet know. Plus, there are some draft picks coming, no?

Paps wasn't Mariano rivera. He was very good but the team didn't want to pay his price and, frankly, he may have prefered a fresh start elsewhere.

At least Theo and Tito are gone though, right? Seriously though, this really shouldn't be shocking to most people. As soon as Paps said he wanted to test the market most predicted he would do just that. I hope people are preparing for the same thread about Ellsbury in a few short years.

Quick, everybody, it is not December yet but the Sox hopes for 2012 are dashed! Everyone jump from this cliff over here! I'm sad to see papelbon go. However the Sox should be able to reallocate that money elsewhere. Hopefully not into David Ortiz.

People were not comparing posters to unknown posters on other sites or dividing the posters here into groups like the sugar coaters and the realists. That's clique s*** and reduces the quality of discussion here. I find that most of the new posters here have come in as reactionary and with a residual chip on their shoulder from the spats on the other boards. Time to let it drop.

Edwin Jackson will be expensive, is inconsistent, and his WHIP is too high. As much as people will hate it, the Sox should go with the cheapest options or explore trades for a pitcher, and have the roster and financial flexibility to get one of the good pitchers available after 2012. We will be happier with Matt Cain than Edwin Jackson and should not compromise a short term fix for the long term solution. Don't sign Jackson if it means they can't sign anyone next year. Darvish would be another option for this year.

This is one of the stupidest discussions between relatively new posters that I have seen in awhile. I don't see how people can argue that Drew was a horrible signing or even below average during his tenure with the Red Sox. Was he a disappointment compared to the expectations that many of us had? Probably. Was he valuable in the ways that many of us traditionally value players? No. However, advanced metrics were not invented for JD Drew, despite what some would like to believe. They exist to evaluate all players and people like myself, User Name and Theo Epstein all see the value in JD Drew. Others disagree about that. In disagreeing about that, apparently they are putting not just the player on trial, but the metrics too. I can't help but wonder if Drew came out more poorly in the sabermetric world whether those same posters would be using the metrics to make their point... The whole discussion about the "limits" of sabermetrics is always funny to me. Apparently, because the limits of measurement are quantifiable, they are somehow WORSE than the limits of gut instinct and limited observation. Clearly there is space for subjectivity in the numbers. However, if the numbers go against my perception of a player I think its a good reason to double and even triple check my preconceptions before going against those numbers. I can't remember specific defensive plays that Drew made that saved runs or games or seasons, but they could certainly be there and I know those are enormously valuable for a team. How many Nelson Cruz HRs are worth that catch that he didn't make in the playoffs? Anyway, I digress. You new posters should all lighten up a bit. Don't bring your s***** arguments over from whatever s***** other board you used to be on. It is meaningless to most of us and, frankly, makes you sound like teenaged girls gathered around a locker.