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That is a powerhouse lineup and I think it would provide sufficient protection for Ortiz throughout the season that he wouldn't be hurt by losing Manny. It's not happening but it is a fun one to think about.

I would love to find a way to keep Mueller. I think having him as a backup 3rd and 2nd option is tenable, its just a matter of if he wants to stay for a year or work out a multi year deal somewhere else. C'mon billy, play one more year and RETIRE!!!

Glaus is an intimidating presence at the plate, but his numbers are weird. He usually has an OBP between .340-.360, yet his OPS is rarely above 9. Trot does better than that. If Glaus is coming to fill Millar's hole then its not a bad option. If he's coming to fill Millar's hole defensively and Manny's spot offensively then its a horrible move. Leadoff Hitter Renteria Ortiz Manny Glaus Tek Nixon Youkilis Pedroia Not a bad lineup.

Good news, good news! I am hopeful that we can sign Theo and get on with the REAL signings. The possibility that he might NOT get signed is an absurdity that needs to be moved on from.

I think if we lost all of those guys EXCEPT for Manny then we could do both at the same time. We could still field a competative team (with pitching that HAS to do better than it did last year and a lineup that will probably score 850 runs).

Great points all. I think it is correct that some playesr can't make it in Boston, and they do like to seclude themselves in some random backwater elsewhere. I kind of think that's what Pedro did, even though he's in NY, he's not a NYY but a NYM. Part of me imagined Pedro looking forward to September in NY, where he could say that his arm was tired, his team was out of the race, and he gets to return to the Dominican a month earlier than he would with the Red Sox. What these guys do is a job and I definitely know a lot of people who would take a "day off" whenever it is offered to them. If someone told me that if I worked really hard my job would last an extra month and a half, I would probably not work too hard, all things being equal. (of course, my job doesn't include the possibililty of winning a world series). The homegrown talent approach is a great point too. Sox fans are intensely loyal to these guys, and to guys who have come up from the system regardless of where they came from (guys like Daubauch and Valentin for instance). I'm sure that Papelbon, Hansen, Lester, Pedroia and Hanley will recieve similar treatment. I'm also looking forward to seeing what Jacoby Ellsbury will do in CF in 2-3 years. Having watched a few Oregon State games this year from my spot here on the west coast, he's going to be very very good. (He had 5 triples and stole 23 bases this year in 35 games at Lowell, where he hit .317, .418., .432, .850, as well as leading his team to the college world series). Just another homegrown talent to look forward to.

The thought of that makes me want to puke!!

Yeah. Any thoughts on the players/types of players we would want or possibly get?

So I'm wondering if there is anything that fans should be doing to make playing in boston a more desirable thing? Listen to WEEI for an hour and listen to how harsh it is sometimes and how they feed off of fans' frustrations. It feels like players leaving boston are leaving with horror stories and a negative experience, like they are smothered beyond comfort. Wells wants to leave, Manny can't stand the fans bugging him in the city, and he would rather play in CLEVELAND, or ARIZONA than Boston! What kind of situation is that? Why would we expect that Konerko or Burnett or Giles would choose to come to boston at all given the most recent "exit interviews" that have happened? Even Schilling has to call in and defend himself consistently on the radio and he's one of the most loved players in Boston. Most importantly, is there any reason to think that Boston is capable of having "comfortable stars" for any extended period? I bet that given this pattern even Ortiz will leave when he gets his chance. Anyone have any explanations, thoughts or comments on this phenomenon? Am I just imagining it or is it getting worse over the past 5 years or so?

Could we move Trot to left, resign Damon and put Beltran in the vast expanse of right field? Or JD in left? That 10 million could be used on Damon. Damon Renteria Beltran Ortiz Huff/1B Tek Nixon Youkilis Pedroia Every one of those players is squarely in their prime, except for the youngsters at the bottom of the lineup. I like that experience and don't see toomany ego's there... a lot of team players. or something like that...

Huh. I don't know. If we have to lose Manny I guess Beltran is a guy I would be happy to take. He's young, he's got some pop, he can replace Damon in CF, he frees up 10 million to sign someone else with pop too (Huff?). I don't even think that the combination of Huff and Beltran equals Manny's offensive value, but its not bad. I like Manny being in the relative no-man's land of NY Met's baseball too. He can keep up with his antics and the sox won't have to deal with it. I can root for the mets pretty easily.

Jimmycarter, I'm aware of the fact that Vlad can hit. I know he can hit so much that I think he's a better all around player than Manny is. He hits at a comparable level (except he's never managed to get the RBI totals manny has), plays a pretty good right (with a cannon for an arm) and can run decently. What we have to do is SETTLE the manny thing. If we don't figure it out one way or another then its going to be year after year of this mid-season drama. This "I don't like living in Boston" silliness that comes up every July. It gets really old and seems to start other players griping as well. I love manny. He's like a well paying job. It takes a lot of work and dedication but when all is said and done you say "I'm glad I have it [him]". We can't replace him no matter what we do. So we either have to earn his assurances that he will just agree that he's a Red Sox with David Ortiz for the next few years or we have to move him. If we move him we could put together a team based on chemistry--that's something I think Theo is pretty good at doing. If we keep him then we put together a team based on power and scoring lots of runs. In either case his contract largely dictates the type of team the sox will be. I really don't think Theo would have signed Manny to begin with so he can certainly live without him and still field, in his mind at least, a very competative team.

At no point does any of this actually discuss the kind of stuff this guy has. I'm skeptical of anyone who can't throw 95 and am sick of the sox throwing puss. I like foulke, but the guy is pissed off at the city of boston, a malcontent, and he's a closer who can't throw harder than 89 when he's HEALTHY. I don't believe that his injury was his problem this year. I think that somehow nearly every team figured out how to read him. It could be because he shows his freaking grip every time he pitches the ball, holding it out behind him for all to see. The way people were able to sit on his changeup this year was really remarkable and I don't think it has to do with his body. Other than the grip a circle-change is thrown almost exactly like a fastball, and guys were hitting it like a BP fastball.

Well that rules out the sox then doesn't it.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the Angels would trade Vladimir Guerrero AND some of the top prospects in baseball for a guy who hits slightly better than vlad, annoys the media and clubhouse and plays horrible defense. I don't want manny going to Anaheim. If he goes anywhere it better be the NL, where he won't come back to stop the sox from going to the playoffs.

What the hell are you talking about? In 2003 he pitched 15 innings for the Yankees. It is mathematically impossible to have officially pitched an inning without an out too, and he pitched 15 of them. He also had 4 K's. I'm sure you were joking, but what the hell? Maybe its just hard to think that the Yankees keep playing guys who have steroid ties.

Emotionally I disagree with that. Theo is like one of the players, he's one of the guys I'm proud of having on the Sox team. All of these Sox players could leave in the next 6 years. If they all left AND Theo left then I am not sure our team would contend. If they all left and Theo stayed I'm pretty certain he would have upgraded the team rather than letting it fall apart. We can't keep Nomar. We can't keep Pedro. We don't have Schill, Manny wants out, Trot is getting old, Damon is probably leaving, Foulke blows, D-Lowe is gone, Mueller is probably on his way out, so is Millar. Can't Sox fans have at least ONE constant in their lives? I like Varitek but he's not enough. I understand we have untouchables like papelbon, Hansen, Lester, Hanley, Pedroia, but I want some remnant of the 2004 team to be with them for a long time. Theo would be perfect, he's only going to cost a couple of million a year and he is the face of the team. I think it is imparative that we resign him, especially since he will likely go to a team that we compete with if we don't sign him.

Why do we need a lefty starter? I think the point was made earlier that in 2004 we didn't have a lefty and we won the WS. Lefties seem important for relieving, not for starting.

Not to mention the ridiculous things that people are saying about him. He is completely poised, the guy owns the mound the way a great basketball player owns the court. He throws strikes, but not just strikes... we're talking low fastballs, 6 inches off the ground, 96-97 over and over and over. Very little is way out of the zone. 8th inning? 96-97. I like Kazmir, I like him a lot. If the sox could get him that would be great (and stupid for Tampa). He shuts down the sox and makes them look bad. However, he also throws a considerable number of walks (100/186 IP) vs. (23BB/84 IP) for Hernandez. Kazmir has great potential, Hernandez IS currently great. He's called King Felix for christsakes. I think the 3.35k/BB is outstanding, as is the 8.22 K/9. Equally impressive, though, is Felix's .542 OPS, which would have been tied for Clemens with the tie for the MLB lead if he had the number of innings needed. (Johan Santana: .594, Kazmir: .718) He gave up a .203 avg against, a .283 SLG (Clemens was tops in baseball at .284). He would have trailed only Santana, Pedro and Clemens in OBP at .263. Or maybe his G/F ratio: 3.31. (vs. 1.05 for Kazmir) (Best in MLB was Brandon Webb, at 4.34, Hernandez would have been second, just above Jake Westbrook (3.13) and D-Lowe (2.92) We're talking about a 19 year old kid putting up a 1.00 WHIP, STARTING as the ace on an MLB team. He gets groundballs like Derek Lowe, strikes out hitters like, well, Scott Kazmir, and has been compared to a starting pitcher-Mariano Rivera for his poise and calm. The guy throws like nobody I've seen in awhile (Pedro in the 90s probably). This page was never supposed to be about King Felix though. Sorry everyone else!!!

Regardless of whether he's overrated or underrated, he might be the right direction for the sox to be moving in... of course we're not getting him back, but a good defensive player can make all the difference for a team. If we're going to forego having speed and bunting, then we should really load up on defense and power. So far we've loaded up on the power but the defense has been pretty weak. I think that's why Cameron's name keeps coming up in Ramirez discussions. I'm not a big Cameron fan, but he's a very good fielder and has some pop.

I recently read somewhere that the sox WERE thinking of taking Miller back. I think Wells is mulling a trade over retirement, as he doesn't seem done with baseball but maybe done with boston. I have been interested in the prospect of a 6 man staff, but that's only logical if all of the pitchers are relatively equal, which this team seems to have. If Schilling pitches like normal or if we get Burnett then it wouldn't make a lot of sense, since we want those guys pitching as often as possible. If we stand the same chance of winning with all 6 then why not rest them for the long haul.

Where did wakefield go? I think Clement will be back or traded. Of course Papelbon should start, but if we have Schilling, Miller, Wakefield, Wells and Clement under contract I think that Papelbon is the odd man out. I want him to be a great starter, and he will be in the future. I'm just not going to be heartbroken if the future isn't next year.

I've said the same thing. However, I say it because I'm not sure where the sox will need him most next year, not because he hasn't proven himself. Papelbon is a tremendous pitcher and will be a great starter in the future. If the sox have lots of veteran starters next year and are not able to move them I would much rather see Papelbon in the pen than Wells.

For some reason I don't see Cabrera coming to Boston and I don't see Renteria playing third. Perhaps, though. We would have a tremendous infield defense with Renteria, Cabrera, Pedroia and (insert new first baseman here).

Theo must understand the "start low" approach, given that that is how he carried out negotiations with players like Pedro and Varitek.