example1

"A very common skill set"... Hmmm, please name the other guys in the MLB who have .400 OBP, 60 SB and Gold Glove potential. very common? I guess I don't know what you're missing here. I see the two as very similar players, except that Ellsbury has a higher upside in every category except for HR power. He has a considerably better OBP history than Crisp does. Crisp has a CAREER .328 OBP. Let me repeat that: CRISP HAS A CAREER .328 OBP!!! Ellsbury easily projects as a .370 OBP guy. If you want a leadoff hitter then he's your guy, not Crisp. I like Crisp, I have no problems with him. I'm just not willing to 'throw in' a top prospect because he doesn't hit HRs or because he plays in a position that is currently filled by a marginal MLB talent. That, to me, is a short sighted approach to take with a prospect who has been an All Star at every level that he has played in, who was 1st team all-american, who was worth a 1st round pick, and who has already shown the impact he can have on an MLB level. What the hell is th eproblem with Crisp and Ellsbury BOTH being on this team and someone else getting dealt? I'm not washing Ellsbury's balls, I'm trying to keep people from just throwing things overboard on a sinking ship that isn't sinking.

I think its funny that Crisp, a guy who has fought tooth and nail to raise his average to .270 is now considered to be above average to very good. This team has some of the best pitching in baseball. Their ERA and runs against are tiny compared to most teams. What this team needs is a bat. If Ellsbury's only value to us now is as a trading piece--which assumes that NOBODY else in the league sees Crisp as "above average"--then we should use that trading piece to get some offense. If Elsbury is such a marginal major leaguer (as many here are saying) then why would the White Sox want him for such a "stud" major league pitcher? They wouldn't. If the Red Sox were to trade, say, Josh Beckett (whose numbers haven't been nearly as good as Buehrle's) wouldn't you expect back more than a "Juan Pierre type"? If they are willing to get Ellsbury as the centerpiece it is because they think Ellsbury is more than just a role player. My guess? 5 years from now Ellsbury will be one of the top 5 leadoff hitters in baseball. EDIT: Until I've heard of a no-trade clause I'll keep going with Buehrle as the trade piece... but the argument about Ellsbury's value stays whether it's Buehrle or Zito we're talking about

Kenny Lofton in his prime is the projection on Sox Prospects, and looking at Lofton's numbers I see them as a good comp. Lofton achieved a .400+ OBP for a few seasons. He scored a ton of runs and was the always-threatening leadoff hitter for an impressive Cleveland team. If we were talking about dealing for Miguel Cabrera or Roy Oswalt then it would be a different matter.

f***ING JD!! Argh. Frustrating sweep. A few close games, a COMPLETELY weak and ineffective offense. SOMETHING has to change here.

Well, the tigers have had 5 errors today. The Sox are not the only flawed team near the top of their division.

I think it just goes further to point out the flaws with the theory of "clutch" hitting.

Any clue what inning Buchholz may pitch in the Futures Game today?

Atta boy Julio. I never gave up on ya buddy!

Ohhh, that was low by 4 inches. Manny looking for a walk in a situation where we need him to drive in a run... I'm getting pretty used to this pattern.

What they need to add is a big bat. Buehrle would be nice, but this offense is FLAWED. I'm not sure Manny is going to get back to old form. I am pretty confident that Ortiz will. The rest of the guys are a crapshot. It is like everyone had their brain washed clean when the Red Sox got demolished at the end of the year last year. The fact that the sox have the same record this season as last is not a shot at THIS YEAR'S Sox; it is a reminder that last year's team was really good through most of July and the difference is the success of the rest of the AL East. If I were the sox I would look hard at trying to get a guy like Todd Helton and moving Mike Lowell. Helton would be a much better 5 hitter than Youkilis or Drew, and would allow those guys to hit in more natural positions in the order.

Buehrle would be a great addition. I would love to add him to this (offensively challenged) team. However, without an extension I'm not giving up much. With an extension I would give up Lester or Bowden and a prospect not named Ellsbury, Anderson or Buchholz. I guess when it comes down to it I would hold firm to not moving Ellsbury. He's not a year or two off, he's ready to go now. Move Crisp if you have to, or WMP. I'm holding Ellsbury.

That could be true. But if I have Papelbon I'm not thinking about having him back down from anyone.

I totally agree. Something needs to happen.

:lol: I'm not starting any s***. I would have used him, and I wouldn't have criticized Tito for it. there was a chance that he would have lost the game at that time too. the point is that you just don't know who is going to do what so criticizing as if you can is just baseless.

So, Papelbon ends up getting the loss. I guess Tito really is an idiot for using him in this game.

no doubt. it's pretty much a given: if you want it, take your base.

I was asking genuinely about whether Donnelly was off the DL. Not being a smart ass. Sorry man. I think we largely agree. The percentages say that if the Sox got through all these innings with such seemingly mediocre pitchers on the mound, their offense should have scored against the actually mediocre Tigers bullpen. It's still playing the percentages, but--like you are implying--the percentages apply for both sides. Sheffield on 2nd isn't a good thing. Papelbon needs to put these guys away.

Jeez, this has been a pretty long game. I just don't have a life...

Nice point TheKilo. Dice can handle a 2-1 game.

Is he off the DL? We could go on about this forever. Let's. Where were we? Just kidding. Papelbon needs a GB right here. If anything, those booos for checking on Sheffield so many times should just make papelbon more effective. He has no problem with that type of thing. I think he thrives off it.

Wow, the most SBs since 2003 for Sheffield? It must be easier to get the good HGH outside of the limelight of NY.

Is good for Dice-K, no?

Only if you look from the Red Sox side of thing. Look who the tigers have been throwing out there. Is it Joel Zumaya? No, it's Jason Grilli. Our lineup could have won this game already.

How can you look at that as an inherently bad thing though? Baseball is a game of probabilities. As you know, a guy who gets on-base 40% of the time is a special player, and there are many different ways to get on base, let alone score runs, make outs, etc., baseball is a game absolutely filled with luck. The weather is luck, a bounce is luck, the particular umpire's strike zone is luck, a bad call is luck, the list goes on and on. There is always a significant measure of luck involved.