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I think only you and Yankee fans share that view on this site.

I hate threads that declare players in the first year of their long deals as busts after half a season. No comment.

Love this thread. Keep it going.

Do you think anyone here meets your standards of objectivity? This is a Red Sox site. We dislike the Yankees. It's kind of the tenor of things around here, if you havent noticed. I'm willing to bet that NYYFans was pretty excited about the prospect, and I imagine it will still happen for the Yankees.

I'm painting them as babies for saying that if it doesn't happen before the game tonight then they aren't doing it. Lee is worth Montero + or he isn't. This basically changes the deal from Lee for Montero + + to Lee for Montero + + (and Lee not pitching against us tonight i.e., throw the game tonight). As far as I can tell, the Mariners are still the ones in control of whether this deal happens or not, but yet again it seems like the Yankees dictating terms of the deal. A totally minor point, and one I only make because I like to pick on the Yankees. :harhar:

Think about the implication of this move at this time... The Yankees getting him before he pitches against them could assure them of a win and assure the M's of a loss. When players are measured in the # of wins they bring their team, this would almost immediatley add to his value. If nothing else it is addition by subtraction from their schedule. Actually quite genius. I want the M's to only move him after this game.

So you agree, the Yankees have an advantage. Thanks, that's my point. Can't keep up? I think the Sox have kept up very well. Nobody's saying they can't keep up. They just aren't going to sell 6 years worth of all-star caliber production for half a season of all-star production. Additionally, they're always going to be hesitant to sell that potential 6 years for a half-season, even if there's no assurance that the 6 years will materialize. Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Pedroia, Youkilis are all examples of that decision paying off. Many would have traded Lester for Santana a few years ago. The Sox didn't and it was the right move. Yet, other teams wouldn't offer a cost controlled player who could be worth $15m/yr ($90m over the course of his 6 years) for half a season of an all-star. It is a financial decision, actually. The $$ involved isn't a deal breaker for a lot of teams, but to pretend that it isn't part of the equation is silly. I acknowledge that the Yankees have the piece the M's want, and I'm not jealous of the Yanks acquisition of Lee. I'm just saying that the reason other teams hold onto prospects IS NOT BECAUSE THEIR PROSPECTS AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH to be traded. It is because prospects who develop into good players are more valuable financially than expensive SPs and all-star hitters who are about to be FAs. This explains why the Yankees have held onto Phil Hughes. He's very good and he's essentially free. That savings doesn't just sit on the books for teams like the Sox, Yankees, Phils, Dodgers, etc., it gets reinvested in the system, or into other FAs who become key parts of the team.

This thread and idea seems like a sad attempt to counter the Yankees acquisition of Lee. I like Werth and think he would be a great addition but I will believe it when I see it (or hear more about it in a serious way). If this models the Yankees' acquisition of Bobby Abreu a few years ago (seems comparable) it should cost the Red Sox Ryan Dent and a few scrubs. Instead, I'm imagining it would cost them something like Kalish, Bowden, Beckett, Victor Martinez, Pedroia and Bard. Oh yeah, and Casey Kelly. Maybe Doubront and another prospect would be enough.

This move actually doesn't bother me too much, certainly not as much as they have in the past. The thing I like most about it is that the Yankees are raising the bar again and Theo and the Sox will need to respond. Perhaps not this year, but the Yankees are not going with a "building from within" approach, so the Sox will need to counter these "known" quantities rather than the unknowns of minor league players. I think Theo is the better GM at constructing a team and the Yankees have resources and clout that the Sox can't match. On equal ground I prefer Theo's approach and still think that they will be able to field a competitive team moving forward this year and in the future.

Who cares? So now they're the best team in baseball? Oh, they already were. Trade their best prospects for players who would give other teams a chance to compete... ensuring their continued dominance. I guess I'll have to root against the Yankees now. If Montero is as good as all the Yankee fans say he is then this is a great deal for Seattle. Years and years of an 'elite' catching power bat. Good for Seattle.

Beltre has 3 triples this year against TB. He's hitting .484/.485/.839/1.324 against them in 33 PAs.

Is Eric Patterson an example of the Sox "pitching/defense" first philosophy? This seems like a game where Nava should be playing. Is Patterson's defense in a larger (i.e., non-Fenway) park the reason?

I agree that he wouldn't be the center of the package, but he's a lot better, more "MLB ready" and potentially more offensively versatile than a lot of offensive pieces like Anderson, Reddick or even Kalish. I'd say he's one of their top offensive trade chips at this point. In one sense that is a shot on the whole system's offense, in another sense it says a lot about Nava because those guys listed above aren't total slouches. Nava is a good and unique player. His age hurts him because he shouldn't develop much more. His age helps him because he's literally in his prime and he's still as cheap as any rookie in baseball.

Except that Moss had a career .808 OPS in the minors and Nava has a career .979 OPS in the minors. I'm not usually a "watch the games" kind of guy, but Nava looks comfortable at the plate and it shows in his results. Moss never looked good at the plate, and that shows in his results as well.

What makes you say this? HRs aren't the only way to get SLG and he doesn't seem to have any trouble getting 2Bs. I think his OBP can sit between .350-.385 consistently. I disagree with you about the OPS potential (I'm thinking he can be .830-860). However, I do agree with you that he could have tremendous trade value. In fact, if San Diego were ever interested in moving Adrian Gonzalez then I can imagine this is one of those guys that Hoyer might like more because of his "inside knowledge" of the franchise.

Even if he doesn't add a lot of HRs he'll be a very valuable hitter. To me, the player he is most similar to is JD Drew. He's not a pure HR hitter, he drives the ball the other way very well and has a sweet, sweet swing that looks easy. Nava has the additional benefits of being a switch-hitter and being very cheap. Does anyone disagree that Daniel Nava is a better hitter than Jacoby Ellsbury at this point? Ellsbury consistently looks overwhelmed at the plate (when healthy) and that's with a few years experience. Nava looks like he was born to swing a bat. Ellsbury is obviously a better fielder and much more dangerous baserunner. I just wonder if Ellsbury will eventually become expendable, especially with a number of young OF prospects coming up in the next few years. How about this lineup when all returns to normal: Ellsbury Nava Pedroia Ortiz Youkilis V-Mart Drew Beltre Scutaro