example1

Can you cite some guys you are thinking of? LaRoche?

So you are saying the opposite? The opposite is that it would be easy to pull off, you said earlier that wasn't what you were saying. Usually when a team is in the position of trying to move a contract that is s***** they are a) not doing well and they need to pay a lot of money or talent to make the money go away. The Sox have plenty of examples of that. With new LT thresholds and significant penalties the margin for those types of deals is razor thin. Nobody should fault the Sox for not spending more than they are comfortable spending on a guy they might have to pay more to get rid of in 3-4 years. We will see how it looks in a few years. I wouldn't be shocked if the Jays are stuck not being able to sign a good #5 pitcher or key bullpen pieces at some point dow the road. We will see.

It's funny when fans get upset because the Sox don't sign a guy who disgraced himself and his team less than 6 months ago. How pathetic.

Reyes wouldn't necessarily be easy to trade later just because hes a SS. Most of us have seen him play. He's good but an injury or slowing with age and he could be a sub .800 ops player costing 1.000 ops dollars. It sounds like the Sox explored getting him but where would he have fit in the lineup? Seems like a repeat of Carl Crawford to me.

I'd say that's pretty reasonable a700. I wouldn't be upset if they went after Hamilton to play LF for a 3-4 year contract. It's the years that are absolutely crucial IMO. I think they should think really seriously about Kalish in RF if he looks good in spring training. Add Napoli and maybe Kuroda and I'd be pretty happy. No prospects dealt, shortish contracts everywhere. Ellsbury Pedroia Hamilton Ortiz Napoli Middlebrooks Lavarnway Kalish Iglesias Lester Kuroda Buchholz Doubront Lackey Or something along those lines... that team looks competitive to me. Not sure what the total bill would be, but it doesn't seem prohibitive.

It is like the strongest possible cognitive dissonance when I read statements like this. The Sox did everything a team could reasonably do over the past 10 years to be a contending team. They rarely did any waiting for the future as a franchise. Theo even mentioned that it would be smart to wait for the future and he was raked over the coals for daring to work from a strategy that says not every year will be a WS year and those years are an opportunity to re-stock and solidify the team's base. What are the differences in years where the team isn't in contention? Well, you don't end up signing any bad contracts. Not one. There's not an excuse for them to spend one dime more than they need to, or one season more than they need to, if they don't think they need that particular player for a WS run. Signing a guy like Anibel Sanchez for 5 years might make you happier for an offseason, but if he is in the way when they are making their big push next year or the year after, it isn't worth it.

My point isn't hard to understand, and you should be familiar with it by now. I will always advocate waiting for the data to come in before pretending to know what the outcome is going to be. It is November 15th. Like you, I see the Sox money. I see their holes. I see their incentive to have a good team next year. I think they will put something together that looks much, much better than it does now. At the same time, I'm not so foolish as to think that would be possible within the first few weeks or that deals can magically materialize overnight. Furthermore, me not being privy to all the thinking of the front office it would be foolish of me to pretend that I know what is or isn't happening behind the scenes.

The Jays have sent a way a significant portion of their best prospects over the past year. Furthermore, it is really, really hard to say they didn't mortgage their future when we haven't seen what those players become. We will only know if they mortgaged their future if a) they aren't competitive soon and the players they dealt become significantly more valuable than what they got back. It's not surprising that you can't defend Cherrington. He hasn't given you the goodies you feel entitled to. He is acting conservatively though. He's keeping the good things (perceived good things) that the team has and is trying to get maximum value from them. The money is still there, it will be spent eventually. Prospects might be dealt, but only when they think the right package comes along. From the reports I've read, just about everyone is saying the Sox are easily the most active team right now. Just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean they are just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

Did any of them do it after their worst season in 40 years? What else do they need? Most of them need players who are achieving at the top of their capability and possibly to make some good player acquisitions in the process. You guys are acting like there are a ton of players who are available, at virtually no cost to the organization, who are guaranteed to make the team contenders. Who are these guys?

If you think they are not going to be a great team next year no matter what, then why not punt on 2013 and plan for 2014? It isn't an unreasonable approach at all. I'm not sold that they are incapable of being good next year, I just don't think they should trade their future for guys who arent a virtual sure thing. Not Jose Reyes, not Josh Johnson. Maybe Justin Upton.

Fixed it for you. Sometimes making things appear where they don't exist otherwise is an impossible task. Asking them to get the pieces needed to contend while also not depleting the system for the future is asking too much. Why can't we assume that being conservative in this environment is really making a play for future success?

All solid points. I think the assumption that the Marlins dealt these guys for absolute crap is misguided and, frankly, biased by peoples' assumption about Cherrington's ability to judge talent.

I guess to reframe it, if someone else pays the FA cost for Greinke, will you be lamenting his loss or will you be okay with it? I don't know where you stand on the "anxiety" issues, let alone his significant cost as a FA. I just think he's an interesting option. 3.42 ERA over his last 1157 IP. He's definitely a front-line starter and at 28 he's about as young a FA starting pitcher as we will see for awhile. I have concerns about him, but the Sox are desperately in need of some rotation help and he's undoubtedly got the best track record of anyone available. Let's say, slightly less than CC Sabathia's first contract with the Yankees as a comp (7/161 with an opt-out clause).

A700, how would you feel if the Sox went all out for Grienke right now? Positive? Negative?

First of all, they won't bring back the same kinds of prospects when older and less talented. More importantly, the cycle of moving prospects for established players is what got the Red Sox into a position of virtually no depth in the first place. With Kelly and Rizzo right now they could still have had Adrian Gonzalez if they were more patient. Josh Johnson is a FA after next season. If he lights it up maybe he will be back on the market. Reyes is very expensive for a 3 WAR player. He's dynamic and exciting but even with the Sox good payroll his cost would look prohibitive after they have signed a few guys who truly deserve 20+ a year. I don't disagree with the frustration that the sox are being conservative. I just think guys like Bogaerts are unmoveable unless a tremendous player were available. Stanton would be one of those guys.

I don't disagree that we are waiting. I just think that not every big move or acquisition of marquee players leads to the team being significantly better. You're right about waiting for the smart acquisitions... we might have been still waiting for those if the Sox gave up the farm or majority of their payroll for Reyes, Buehrle and Johnson.

A Happy Thanksgiving isn't the same as getting a winning ballclub. Jose Reyes won't be worth $22m the last 4 years of his contract. Josh Johnson is a beast... when he's healthy, which he often isn't. This deal could look very good in a year, or it could be an insignificant "splash". These aren't franchise guys. It may make the Jays better but let's not overstate the importance of making moves rather than making smart moves.

With Salty in his last year of arbitration and Lavarnway showing as much if not more promise with virtually no cost at all, it seems like a no-brainer to move Salty.

Here are Hamilton's OPS during the past 5 seasons: 2009: .741 (89 games) 2010: 1.044 (133 games) (MVP) 2011: .882 (121 games) 2012: .930 (148 games) His production is really impressive, but is he really a $30m player with those numbers? OBP: 2009: .315 2010: .411 2011: .346 2012: .354 He's not a guy who, if his power disappears, is going to make up for it with great ABs. Finally, if there's a chance that he's been juicing/HGH'ing, I would be afraid of a post-contract letdown. If the Sox sign him I will be excited like most other people, but it doesn't seem like he's a sure-bet to be better than, say, Adrian Gonzalez was yet he would cost 10m more per-season.

I don't mind the idea of Laroche, but I think fans would be pretty underwhelmed by him fairly quickly if he's a major acquisition. Sadly this is going to take awhile. I like the Choo and Masterson idea. I wonder if they would try to turn Masterson back into a dominant force out of the bullpen rather than starting. Choo is a good OBP guy with the potential to put up a mid-800s OPS. He's a pretty dangerous offensive piece when he's on. If the cost weren't too high they should strongly consider both of these guys.

That's a very cool thing to do Nice job Kalish

In addition to what Jacko said, my initial point was actually that there's cap to how much teams can pay him. Therefore, at some point, theoretically it won't be about the money, it will be about where he wants to play ASSUMING LAD and maybe TEX are willing to blow their entire budget on him. That may or may not be the case.

I wish I could say I forgot. I actually didn't know. Looks like 3m cap on all IFA per year, with "heavy penalties" for teams that go over. So, essentially they will have to hope that he's more interested in coming to Boston than LA or Texas.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8532919/shohei-otani-japanese-high-school-fireballer-opting-mlb I'm officially on record saying the Sox should go after Shohei Otani really hard. The amount of money these international FAs have needed to sign is relatively small compared to actual FAs. He's a HS kid an dhasn't proven himself in any significant way yet, making his price smaller. If they were willing to give Jose Iglesias a 6m bonus, shouldn't they be willing to offer more than that for a pitcher with this kid's upside? This is one of the few areas where their financial advantage can still truly play out. Go get him Ben.

I'm fine with this. They have their manager, they didn't lose anyone who was going to be part of the future (i.e., starting SS for the next Sox World Series team). Aviles seems reasonable. That said, he will still have the chance to screw the Sox over about 18 times a season, but hopefully the Farrell hire will be worth it.