stevece80

What the hell is the "MESS" boards? I primarily post at two boards, and have been a part-timer at a Mets and Phillies board.

I'll stop posting then. I just came out of hiding at Netsports, so I'll just leave this forum open for CrespoBlows to whine about utility infielders and sabermetrics.

I wasn't trying to be tasteful or original. I was trying to be childish and petty. I think I hit on both counts. Respek.

Radar guns are wrong quite often, maybe he's approached it, maybe touched it, but I've seen absolutely nothing that has stated he touches that number consistently. Even the link you've provided explicitly states that his fastball is in the mid-90s, but I'd be willing to bet he operates mostly around 92-93. You gigantic gaylord.

Papelbon doesn't have a 98 MPH fastball. Try again. I shouldn't expect much more from a Devil Rays fan such as yourself, anyways.

I said if Papelbon didn't bust out at AA, which I'm hoping will happen, his upside is a decent reliever. What's wrong with that statement? How many minor leaguers are ever "decent relievers" in the majors? How many pitching prospects fail? Most? I'm willing to back the Mets because it's ridiculously petty to bash another team, when the team you alledgedly love is just as guilty of doing what you were ripping them for. I love Moneyball a lot? I don't love it at all. I'm just not a moron who has some bizarre grudge against it for whatever reason. And let's talk about what a failure that draft was. It landed them one of the top prospects in the game, that's ready to step into the rotation this season in Joe Blanton. It yielded a quality prospect they were able to budge their way into the Beltran deal and come away with the best setup man in the game. It netted their starting right fielder, Nick Swisher. I hope this year's draft for the Red Sox is as disastrous as their's was. I laugh, because this is the first place I've ever posted where my loyalty towards the Red Sox has been questioned. And to think, I've left certain Red Sox forums because I was tired of the negativity towards the Red Sox. Well, you're the boss. I'm just an A's fan, I guess.

Hahahahahaha. Yeah, I'm a pessimistic Red Sox fan. I really don't think anyone has ever referred to me as even the slightest bit of a pessimist when it comes to them. I think you're addressing the wrong person in this thread if you're going to put that tag on me. How in the world am I pessimistic in any way shape or form towards the Boston Red Sox? I'm dying to know.

So I'm an A's fan because I don't think they'll come in last place? I could give a crap less about them, but I'm not about to write them off because of it.

Even with Rose, it's nice he had all those singles, but I'd prefer the Hall looked at dominance first, not the numbers a player compiles over a ridiculously long career as a banjo hitter playing the corners. Except for a few years when he put up Gwynn-esque numbers, sans the speed, he wasn't more than Bill Mueller for the majority of his career. His career line was .303/.375/.409. Both players in their prime, I take Rice without question.

First off, no, I'm not an A's fan. Should I be? If you're up for some easy money, why don't you make a bet with someone about your prediction? Secondly, I'm finding one game that looked like a sellout amongst the A's 20 consecutive game winning streak, the 20th game, in which 55,528 showed up for a Wednesday night game against the Royals. Tickets cost one dollar on Wednesdays in Oakland. 2000, the A's have Giambi, Chavez, Tejada, Ramon Hernandez, and Ben Grieve in the lineup. Mulder, Hudson, Zito, Appier in the rotation and Isringhausen still in the bullpen. They win 91 games, win the division, and just 1.6 million show up. Now to backtrack a bit from what I said earlier, the only thing that's going to put fans in the seats to watch the A's is relocating the franchise, or an outside chance a new stadium will do the trick. It will have nothing to do with the alledgedly poor quality of next year's squad.

The fans stay away? You act like they showed up when they had the "big three". There was no drop in attendance when Giambi left. None when Tejada left. There will be no drop next year. They're not faithful, but they're damn consistent in attendance, even with 100+ win teams on the field. The only drop in attendance will be if the team totally sucks, it has nothing to do with adding and subtracting players.

I wouldn't have a problem with Rice in the Hall Of Fame, but I wouldn't put him in before Dwight Evans or Luis Tiant.

In reference to his avatar. It's a dive club on Bowery near Houston St in the lower east side of Manhattan.

Amateur players. And the "bathroom" in CBGB is one of the worst sights I've ever seen. Stall-less shitter on a drum riser. Awesome. The Living Room in Providence runs a close second. Sorry for the off-topic-ness.

I'm willing to put down 100 dollars US on the A's not finishing in last. Anyone up? I've got a Paypal account that doesn't mind an easy 100.

Actually, I'm hoping he stays around for a LOOOOOOOOONG time. It's his absence from meddling in the early 90s (due to being BANNED from baseball) that allowed the Yankees to build from the ground up. It's been since after 2001 in which he's just spent, spent, spent like he did in the 80s whenever there was a problem. I'm all for his meddling, as they're no closer to a title than they were in 2001, and their long-term prospects are shot in terms of building from within. I love George Steinbrenner's presence. The only thing better would be when he dies, the owner of the NY Rangers takes over.

I agree with all of them except for Curtis Martin. If not for him, they have Lamont Jordan, who's likely nearly as good as Martin, and deserves to be starting somewhere. Career year aside, Martin's still just a 4.1 yards a carry rusher. I think it's certainly within reason to think that Jordan could be a Pro Bowl back with 350 touches.

Yeah, but if Pedro...uh, Pedro had a midget in the clubhouse! Face it, Randy Johnson and his dealings with the media (and people in general) is closer to Kevin Brown and his dealings with clubhouse walls than he is to the comparatively mild-mannered Pedro.

Drew wasn't offered arbitration. You at least have to pretend to put forth an effort to sign the player, and the first step in doing so is to offer salary arbitration. A few caveats, if the team that signs your player is among the 15 worst in baseball, you'd get a sandwich pick and their second rounder. If they're among the 15 best, and I use that term loosely, you'd get their first and a sandwich pick. To put a bit of a wrinkle into all of this, players are ranked by the Elias Sports Bureau (mostly on weighted averages put on triple crown statistics) and ranked accordingly. If a team signs 3 players that were offered arbitration to, those teams would receive the 1st, 2nd, pr 3rd (and so on depending on where they draft) according to the player's ranking. The Red Sox have the 23rd, 26th, 42nd, 45th, 47th, and 61st picks of the draft in the first two rounds, losing only the team's 1st, 2nd and 3rd picks in the process. Now, had the Red Sox instead of going out and attaining players, signed all the impending free agents and called it a day, they would have kept all their picks in the first 3 rounds. Instead, the Red Sox ended up with 2 first round picks higher than it's own that it gave up, 3 extra picks between the first and second round, and a much higher 2nd round pick. That's three additional picks that the team ended up with in the midst of all the offseason shuffling. Furthermore, those 6 picks are all higher than last year's first pick, who was none other than Dustin Pedroia, who appears on the fast track already. Not bad, not bad at all. I'll take my chances on the 2005 squad being as good or better (and cheaper) than what the team would have looked like had Theo just re-signed everyone. Theo is the best thing to happen to Boston since Red Auerbach.

For the record, Appier did NOT have a one year contract. The Angels took on 32 Million dollars over 2002, 2003 and 2004. He had a Nolan Ryan esque 2002 season, posting a 111 ERA+ and helping the mediocre Anaheim rotation to the World Series. He was awful in 2003, during which the Angels released him, and swallowed the balance of his contract. Tom Seaver made over a million in 1986, and his being injured forced the Red Sox to have to use Al Nipper as the number 4 guy in the rotation. No big deal, as it only cost the prorated balance of 1.1 Million dollars (3rd highest on the team), and a World Series title. No biggie. Bret Saberhagen. Please, don't talk about arbitration, you have no idea what it means, obviously. Saberhagen made 9.5 million dollars over the 2000 and 2001 seasons. He pitched a grand total of 15 innings, with a 6 ERA over those two years (all in 2001). Talk about value! His absence led to the Red Sox having to use a mix and match rotation in the 4 and 5 spot, with 24 starts going to Peter Schourek, Steve Ontiveros, Hector Carrasco (bye Lew Ford), and John Wasdin. Rolando Arrojo was eventually traded for to fill Sabe's spot, at the cost of taking on Mike Lansing's contract, as well. The Red Sox missed overtaking the weakest Yankee squad in years by two games, while losing Lew Ford and shelling out millions upon millions to Saberhagen, Arrojo and Lansing in the process. Yeah, that didn't hurt too much. 2000: John Valentin $ 6,350,000 - 38 PA, 87 OPS+ Ramon Martinez $ 6,320,000 - 127 2/3 IP, 81 ERA+ Jose Offerman $ 5,750,000 - 527 PA, 82 OPS+ Tim Wakefield $ 4,500,000 - 159 IP, 91 ERA+ Troy O'Leary $ 4,000,000 - 563 PA, 83 OPS+ Mike Stanley $ 3,500,000 - 218 PA, 85 OPS+ Darren Lewis $ 2,400,000 - 303 PA, 56 OPS+ 32.82 Million dollars spent on below average, or non-contributing players 2001: Dante Bichette $ 7,000,000 - 415 PA, 104 OPS+ as a DH, retired after season Jose Offerman $ 6,750,000 - 594 PA, 89 OPS+ John Valentin $ 6,350,000 - 70 PA, 59 OPS+ Mike Lansing $ 6,250,000 - 382 PA, 77 OPS+, retired after season Bret Saberhagen $ 5,000,000 - 15 IP, 75 ERA+, retired after season Troy O'Leary $ 4,600,000 - 376 PA, 90 OPS+ Darren Lewis $ 2,500,000 - 180 PA, 82 OPS+ Hipolito Pichardo $ 1,660,000 - 34 2/3 IP, 92 ERA+ Bryce Florie $ 1,450,000 - 8 2/3 IP, 40 ERA+, retired after season 41.56 million dollars spent on below average or non-contributing players 2002: Darren Oliver $ 7,000,000 - 58 IP, 95 ERA+ Jose Offerman $ 6,750,000 - 275 PA, 76 OPS+ Dustin Hermanson $ 5,833,333 - 22 IP, 57 ERA+ John Burkett $ 5,500,000 - 173 IP, 98 ERA+ Tony Clark $ 5,000,000 - 298 PA, 50 OPS+ Frank Castillo $ 2,250,000 - 163 1/3 IP, 87 ERA+ Rich Garces $ 2,200,000 - 21 1/3 IP, 58 ERA+, retired after season Rolando Arrojo $ 1,900,000 - 81 1/3 IP, 89 ERA+, retired after season Bobby Howry $ 1,200,000 - 18 IP, 88 ERA+ 37.63 Million spent on below average or non-contributing players 2003: John Burkett $ 5,500,000 - 181 2/3 IP, 91 ERA+, retired after season Ramiro Mendoza $ 2,900,000 - 66 2/3 IP, 70 ERA+ Jeremy Giambi $ 2,000,000 - 156 PA, 81 OPS+, hasn't played in the MLB since Bobby Howry $ 1,700,000 - 4 1/3 IP, 38 OPS+ 12.1 Million spent on below average or non-contributing players 2004: Derek Lowe $ 5,000,000 - 182 2/3 IP, 90 ERA+ Byung-Hyun Kim $ 4,000,000 - 17 1/3 IP, 78 ERA+ 9 Million spent on below average or non-contributing players Since 2000, the Red Sox have spent 133.11 Million dollars on below average, or simply bad players that didn't contribute. Seven of those players, on more than just make-good contracts, retired after collecting a ton of money from the Red Sox organization. Over that period, Mo Vaughn earned 70 million dollars, 40 Million of which was paid by the Mets. Furthermore, the Mets had defered 13.75 million dollars of that figure, meaning they paid a total of 26.25 Million to Vaughn over 2002-2004. The remaining 13.75 deferred total with likely be made up in the increased revenues from signing Carlos Beltran and the new Cable station, which viewers will tune in to watch the alledgedly washed up Pedro Martinez and Tom Glavine pitch 40 percent of the time. 40 being the magic number, the number in millions that the New York Mets have collectively put in Mo Vaughn's pocket, whilst the alledgedly brilliant, and non-overpaying-players-past-their-prime Red Sox shelled out 133.11 Million dollars on much more dreck. And I must say sorry for bringing a gun to a knife fight, it's a bit unfair for me to put forth informed, and well thought out arguments against you. Carry on!

The Mets didn't make Mo Vaughn a rich man.

"Moneyball" team to win it? Geez, besides the 2004 Red Sox, I can't think of any.

Franco, one of the best relievers ever, probably the best lefty reliever ever, sucks? That's rich.

Great, you couldn't name 3 that did the same with the Mets.

Like Tom Seaver, David Cone, and Bret Saberhagen? Oh, that's the Red Sox, my bad.