SchillingIsTheNatural

Being smart and having the skills to throw the ball make you successful. Fitzpatrick can't throw the ball. Alex Smith scored high on the test and he has the skills. Once that teams places the pieces around him he will do well. Vince Young is not as fast as Michael Vick....last I checked Vick gets tackled A LOT. He is not a good QB. Good athlete sure...does his athletic ability save him sometimes...sure...but I am not building a team around him. Next, Vince Young is big??? Daunte Culpepper is bigger and he is also fast. Do you consider him a good QB?? I sure hope not cause if you do this convo is over. As for the other defenses in the NFL...they are all composed of the best players from college football over the past many years. You are probably one of those people who makes dumb remarks saying the top college football team can beat the worst NFL team. Give more credit to the NFL...these guys can all play. Vince Young is not a freak of nature and will require time to understand the NFL schemes. When dealing with the original question of Vince Young going to Houston....what does that solve?? You think his speed will save him against the oncoming defenders. I will guarantee every defense is the NFL is better, faster, and more talented than the defense he faced against USC. He does the Texans no good...period. They need offensive line help and they need more explosive players. Andre Johnson is the only potential superstar in the WR group and Dominick Davis would be a fantastic 3rd down back. Reggie Bush gives them more speed to throw to, run with, and keep the opposing defenses honest. David Carr is a good QB and changing a position on a team that doesn't need a change based on one games performance is a joke..... Go Patriots

I bet there is a chance he goes to Atlanta in the later rounds. Bringing him in with his brother gives Atlanta another talented Vick who they may be able to control with Michael around. But also a chance to trade Matt Schaub who many teams are interested in.

Mulder-Zito-and Hudson never won but its still the correct way to build a team. The Chicago White Sox, Angels, Florida Marlins, Arizona D-backs, Atlanta Braves (1995)....I'm going to say they all won based on there pitching. Hitting at the right moments is obviously key (you have to score to win) but a team that has great pitching has a better chance to raley than a team holding on by a thread.

Alright you guys can worship Vince Young all you want. How big he is, how fast he is, how he beat USC in the Rose Bow, etc. I've seen it before and its the same thing all over again. Great athletes can make a difference at the WR and RB position but not typically QB. I do not consider Tom Brady or Peyton Manning great athletes. I consider them great students of the game. Vince Young defeated a great defensive mastermind in Pete Caroll.....HAHAHA he couldn't make it in the NFL....THATS how good those masterminds are. You think Vince Young can rip apart a Bill Belichick, Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, etc. type defense. Dreaaaaaaming. You guys are not giving enough credit to the rest of the NFL. These guys are all fast, they are all strong, and they can all tackle. Vince Young is by no means an unstoppable machine. The greatest possible QB athlete still can't win based on his skills....but by his understanding of what he needs to do. It will be interesting to see Vince Young's score on the wonderlic IQ test.

I found this interesting too....how many scrambling QBs are in the playoffs this season?? I'll give you Jake Plummer but thats it. ....and he only started doing well once he got to Denver who is a run first team

Steve Young, Joe Theisman, John Elway....they all had one thing in common. They were all smart intelligent quarterbacks who were able to pick apart a defense with there knowledge of the game. Vince Young still strikes me as simply an athlete. Donovan McNabb is clearly the most bright out of the ones I mentioned but still can't control the game such as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I will still take Matt Leinart over Vince Young. If it wasn't for the one Rose Bowl game we would not be talking about Vince Young in the manner that is present. I do not believe Vince Young is any kind of upgrade from David Carr. If you place Peyton Manning behind that offensive line in Houston...he won't do anything. If you put Daunte Culpepper on that team...he would be horrible...just look how he did without Randy Moss as his security blanket. It was mostly the comment about Vince Young not getting sacked that through me aside. Every quarterback in the NFL gets sacked. Especially when there are players constantly in your face and you can guarantee if in Houston...Vince Young would have players always in his face. Besides its interesting to see David Carr's rushing stats this season. Not too bad. The Texans should stick with playmakers such as Reggie Bush but I would welcome the chance (if I was the Texans) to move down the list since they need help all over there team. All running backs who weigh in at 235 lbs get tackled. That won't make a difference. I can guarantee NFL players will be able to tackle him. He will get tackled and sacked and pushed around his first season. Its very rare to see a player of his abilities come in and do well right away. There is a better chance (if on the right team) Matt Leinart will pick up the NFL system better since he has been running it at USC for the past many years.

Its amazing what ONE game will do to people's thinking. Fine, Vince Young played a good game BUT the USC defense looked like crap. I saw passes to Longhorn WRs wide open with nobody in view. Vince Young can run but the LBs in the NFL are MUCH faster than the boys in college. Vince Young is another Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, or Michael Vick....last time I looked those types of scrambling QBs haven't one a Super Bowl. I am taking Matt Leinart over Vince Young every time because it shows having Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brad Johnson (Tampa Bay), or Trent Dilfer (Baltimore) seemed to pay off. Having a pocket passer is still the way to go. His athletic ability allows him to shine in college just as Vick was able to do. When you get to the NFL its all about intelligence. You need to out smart the other teams defense. I don't care what kind of athlete Vince Young is.....defenses will find a way to beat him unless he figures out how to dismantle them. I still saw Vince Young looking to run almost every chance he could get. The Texans have a good pocket passer in David Carr. If he has time to throw you will would see he completes the passes. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselback, and Drew Breese (to name a couple) are good because they have all the time in the world to throw. The Texans need an offensive line and more options for David Carr. Its not worth it for them to invest in another QB who will fair no better behind a continued patch work offensive line. I will guarantee the linebackers and defensive ends can catch Vince Young. They are all great athletes.

Alright here it is: We do not trade our top prospects for Miguel Tejada...period. Pitching wins, not hitting. Yes having a lineup of Ortiz, Manny, and Tejada would be nasty but if we were going to trade prospects...I want another ace caliber pitcher instead. The Red Sox have there backs to the wall at the moment with SS but I still believe Pedroia is on his way and Alex Cora/Tony Graffanino are more than capable. Strong defense and top pitching...that is what we need. If we were going to trade great hitter for great hitter that is one thing. When you start mentioning names like Jon Lester then it becomes silly. The Chicago White Sox basically laughed at the Orioles cause they asked for Brandon McCarthy. In my opinion McCarthy is not the pitcher Lester or Papelbon is so why would we do that deal?? Other names like Andy Marte and Dustin Pedroia don't make a lot of sense either. These guys have the chance to come up through our system and be born into the Boston Red Sox. They have the chance to really connect with the team and be brought up with other guys in the system forming a strong bond and becoming something special. In the end I want to see the core of the Red Sox made up of players FROM the Red Sox. Just imagine down the road the center of our field made up of Lowrie (2nd) Pedroia (SS) and Ellsbury (CF) with the rotation being anchored by Papelbon and Lester and games are closed out by Hansen. Meanwhile Andy Marte is cleaning up with 40 HRs a season and winning gold gloves.

Is it possible that the Orioles are making a move for Patterson which will involve him in a trade with Boston?

If I had the choice between Clement and Arroyo I would have to stick with Arroyo for a couple reasons: 1. He isn't a head case 2. Arroyo has shown he can pitch under pressure 3. Bronson is also capable of pitching out of the bullpen 4. He is cheaper 5. Most of all I hate the way Matt Clement basically gave up in the game against the White Sox in the playoffs. I have never seen Arroyo give up. Get crushed once in a while...yes...but not give up.

If they need to include Contreras in that deal then the White Sox will take a hit. Right now they have the top pitching rotation in baseball. Why would they remove a central piece to that puzzle for a offensive player? Granted Tejada is a good player but there team can all hit. Even if Jim Thome doesnt work out they can did it last season without him. From top to bottom they have a strong lineup and the best pitching rotation....that would be foolish of the White Sox.

Its not happening according to Gordon Edes. He says its a rumor and it "Ain't happening"

I don't think I'm too excited about that deal. The reliever is average (although we could use a lefty) and I'm still not really excited about Jeremy Reed. I would rather have Corey Patterson in that deal who I still think could bounce back from last year. If you look at his numbers the previous two seasons were much better. I still think Fenway could be a blessing to his still young career. Reed just can't hit for power. Although I would welcome his defense but I think Arroyo could be very valuable in our bullpen and spot starter. Not to mention I like Tony Graffanino and the depth he gives us for the infield.

Its all about the opportunity presented. Corey Patterson would be hitting in Fenway Park with solid protection in the lineup. I have him leading off because of his speed. In the end if he can make some adjustments there is no reason to think he wouldn't be able to produce. Most of the time I go by past performance but I see too much potential in this kid. He was supposed to be a star and is still young enough to produce that projection. We are getting off topic here but I think we are all on the same track. I would love to see the Red Sox aquire the talented prospect mentioned. He has a better chance of being better than Matos. Gibbons is a real solid player but I think his ceiling may be reached. I would take the young kid and find another solution for the outfield. Having a group of Nick Markakis, Andy Matre, Brandon Moss, David Murphy, Dustin Pedroia, Kelly Shoppach, Jacoby Ellsbury, and Jed Lowrie is quite impressive for position prospects.

Looks about right with the exception of Loretta hitting twice... haha it happens to the best of us..excellent post. Clearly the Red Sox would be lacking in speed but would be able to hit the ball as well as they ever have. Not to mention our bullpen looks strong on paper and rotation could be much improved with Josh Beckett. I wouldn't mind bringing in Matos and lets just say we trade Wells for JD Drew (who I like more). I think its still possible the Red Sox could make a play for Corey Patterson who seems to have no use in Chicago. I know we wouldn't have much left to trade if we moved Manny, Clement, and Wells but I still think there is a chance. That would allow the outfield to be made up of Nixon, Patterson, Drew, and Matos. Yes they are all lefty but then again...our infield is all righty. I would rather see that lineup: 1. Patterson (L) 2. Loretta ® 3. Ortiz (L) 4. Tejada ® 5. Drew (L) 6. Lowell ® 7. Nixon (L) 8. Varitek (S) 9. Youkilis ®

I'm not sure Tejada is any better of a hitter than Manny in any category. The one thing I like about Tejada is how he hits well when he needs to...kinda like David Ortiz. Two clutch hitters back to back to scarey. Not that Manny wasn't clutch but he didn't come up with as many winning hits as the other two.

Very nice Beckett95. I like to the look of that team and agree with the idea of aquiring Shawn Green or JD Drew. If I had my choice I would take JD Drew based on his OBP and slugg%. Its rare to see someone throw up a OPS above 1.0 but Drew has done it before. Hitting in Fenway I think Drew could be a monster but the Sox would have to find a way to keep him healthy. I think Luis Matos would be a good utility outfielder since he is good on defense. I would still like to see the Red Sox go after Corey Patterson by himself since he may come cheap. I don't think the Cubs have any use for him. One step at a time though....lets aquire Miguel Tejada already.

There are reasons for and against getting Tejada. Manny Ramirez is a better hitter than Tejada. Giving up Matt Clement (a rotation pitcher) with nothing in return is lopsided toward the Orioles. Not to mention we have to pick up the money. This is only if the Red Sox don't aquire another player in which case Clement isn't as big a deal. Also whoever said Tejada is a good defensive player needs to think again....he will make 20+ errors a season which is slowly making ground toward Edgar Renteria. Reasons for getting Tejada: solves the Manny Ramirez headache but creates a new one of having to play against him instead. Then again it works both ways cause they need to face Tejada. We need a SS and we are filling it with arguably the best in the game right now. Above all else the man is a team leader and WANTS to win. I have to take his desire to succeed over anything cause having a "selfish me-first" player does not bold well for the rest of the team. Not to mention the distractions they can bring toward the media. Because of Tejada's desire to play hard and win the World Series I will take him in this trade hands down. I'm also interested to see what he can do in Fenway Park with guys ahead of him who constantly get on base.

I'm behind in this thread but for Reggie Bush being a Texan....I say go for it. Having your top three as David Carr, Reggie Bush, and Andre Johnson is good. You are talking about some serious speed. The problem with Dominick Davis is he doesn't scare the other team. They don't stack the line on the guy which is why he is semi successful. He would be fantastic as a third down back. He could also split more carries with Bush who is not a 25+ ball carrier. The offensive line obviously needs help but with more play makers that will make the opposing defense have to think rather than simply rush David Carr. I still think the biggest issue with the Texans is there play calling. On both sides of the ball the team looks lost which is in due part to the coach. Removing Capers was a very smart move because we have seen how far he can bring this team. Time to bring in a real offensive coach to help Carr make smart decisions and use his ability to the full amount. Surround him with speed and this team could be lethal. On paper they have more talent than a lot of teams.

well i think this much is clear...we can expect deals to be made in the next 3 months or so from the Red Sox

I was suprised at Snow's OBP and slugging %. This guy can actually do some damage...he is perfect as a backup player. Not to mention he brings lots of experience and leadership. I complimented the signing before but now I'm very happy with it.

With all the damn talking and crap about these rumors I really wish this is the end of it and the deal gets done. Clearly this has been the rumor shipped around a lot lately (Manny and Clement for Tejada) and it needs to either happen or Manny talks need to be finished. If Manny kills this deal by wanting an extension then he should stay on the Red Sox. The front office agreed to do what they could to move him and it better not be killed cause he is an ass hole. Why does this man want his option picked up?? What does he care about money at this point are you joking?? Apparently he doesn't care about loyalty either so I don't want an excuse like "I want to be secure on a team." Either this deal happens or he stays in Boston and deals with his choices he made years ago when he signed the contract.

I'm happy with that signing. The Red Sox now have have three infielders who are all gold glove caliber in Snow, Loretta, and Lowell.

That may work....I think as long as we got another piece to the puzzle I would make a different opinion. Like I was saying...Manny for Tejada is fair and Clement for Gathright if fair...but Marte (Renteria) for nothing is not. Lastings Milledge would make some sense but I'm not sure why the Mets would trade him to us instead of to the Rays. Basically the Rays have a choice between Milledge and Marte....take your pick I guess. I hear Marte has a bigger ceilling than Milledge but Milledge has been a little more successful.

I hear in other threads what people are saying about Joey Gathright but I think the kid is the next Scott Podsednik...just better on defense. He won't hit any homers but he is one of the fastest in the game and can cover a lot of ground. He would be a leadoff hitter as a lefty to replace Johnny Dickhead. So I don't have a problem getting Gathright...just a problem giving up Andy Marte for him. We would basically be trading Manny Ramirez, Matt Clement, and Edgar Renteria for Miguel Tejada and Joey Gathright???? How about no. I'm all for getting those guys but not for those three pieces. Instead of Andy Marte I think the Devil Rays need another prospect from another team. We should only be giving up Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement in that deal. I'm fine giving up Manny for Tejada straight up....that is a fair deal. Trading Matt Clement (a #3 starter or #2 for some teams) for a young CF with potential is also fair. Giving up one (if not the top) position player prospect for basically nothing is NOT ok.