RS sign S Drew

[BSN07]

I believe that is Bogaerts.

[KCBRUIN]

It is indeed Bogaerts.

[BSN07]

Iggy should only be traded for something of value. Like a Porcello. Other then that he can stay at AAA and be injury insurance for Drew. I like the Drew signing, but it's probably not smart to not have a back up waiting in AAA.

[BSN07]

I'm hoping we see him in ST this year.

[Dojji]

It is indeed Bogaerts.

 

Bogaerts isn't ready, and either way, if Drew goes down, Ciriaco is starting so having a prospect of Bogaerts' caliber on the pine is ridiculous. No way you call up Bogaerts until you feel he's ready to make the position his own. At least right out of he gate this Spring my impression of the Red Sox is that they don't feel that way.

 

They need a plan for if Drew goes down in April, and until they know that isn't going to happen Iglesias stays put.

[BSN07]

Ya at first I was thinking trade Iggy. But I think it's best to keep him. Having Bogaerts as the injury insurance seems like a bit of a rush. That kid is the future, so they shouldn't rush him.

[KCBRUIN]

Bogaerts isn't ready, and either way, if Drew goes down, Ciriaco is starting so having a prospect of Bogaerts' caliber on the pine is ridiculous. No way you call up Bogaerts until you feel he's ready to make the position his own. At least right out of he gate this Spring my impression of the Red Sox is that they don't feel that way.

 

They need a plan for if Drew goes down in April, and until they know that isn't going to happen Iglesias stays put.

 

I would say the same with Iggy, but they brought him up anyway. He sucked. Iggy isn't ready.

[jung]

Why should they trade Iggy now?...cause they are not going to move him up in the system and he probably has enough trade value as part of a package to bring back help in an area where the Sox are weaker. In my view they are spending much to much time trying to turn this mess around and actually make a run of some sort in 2013 when all the Napolis and Drews in the world will not help them unless there is much more help coming for the rotation. If somebody wanted him as part of a package that would bring back pitching he would be gone for me. They are not going to use Iggy....that should be plain as day at this point. So what are we doing? We are going to keep him down on our farm in case Drew and Ciriaco go down when we are still this weak in pitching.

 

And that is my point about a number of the moves they have made this off season. It might make them respectable in the sense of winning 80+ games in 2013....so what. Why are we going to care about this baseball team unless it is going to make a serious run at the post season. It has signed a bunch of short term deals with guys that have no real future here. While they might be good clubhouse guys, I don't see Red Sox nation falling in love with Gomes and Napoli....they might get a little excited about Victorino.

 

Unfortunately, many teams in the AL think this is their year and they are either all in like the Jays or close to it. Hell the Royals think they are going to kick our ass this year.

 

I agree with the short term deals but they should have made them to players that help supplement the play of young players that we would end up caring about instead of making deals for players that keep guys we would care about from getting playing time. They should have taken LaRoche not Napoli especially if this was their Napoli plan all along. LaRoche would help if you were going to have a young left side of the infield. Napoli won't. Victorino was fine because he frees the Sox to try to do something with Ells but if Victorino keeps Kalish on the pine for 2013 I don't think I like that deal that much either.

 

If Iggy cannot be part of a package that helps the pitching, then leave him there. But he will never be the Sox starting SS as long as this FO regime is in place unless he is the last option and they are stuck using the last option. They made that decision this weekend and to be honest iggy cuts entirely against the grain of the typical Sox SS whether this FO regime or some past FO regime.

 

Frankly I would not have brought Drew in here because Drew is all about 2013. I would have given Iggy the job and let him swim or drown. Unless all the gambles they are making in the rotation pay off and I mean all of them, this team is going nowhere in 2013. It just isn't. They just paid for the privilege of bringing in another rotation question mark in the form of Dempster. The entire rotation is standing on quicksand playing 81 games in a ballpark that is a notorious hitters ballpark and it has so far constructed an offense that might be good but is not daunting. So what the hell are they doing dicking around with Drew? Maybe if they packaged up and sent either Lester or Buch on their way for a solid pitcher and turned at least one rotation question mark into somebody not standing on quicksand, then I would be more inclined to this 2013 constructed team. But the only effort they seemed to have made around Lester was to KC and that was not a serious effort, not with the Rays in the game and it was not a package deal intended to bring back a rotation piece to take Lester's spot.

 

Right now we are going to start the season wondering what Lackey will have in his first year back from TJ, if Buch can actually start 30 games and pitch about 180 innings, if Lester can recover and be the Lester of old, if Dempster can pitch effectively in the AL East and if Felix can go about 25 starts and 150 innings effectively with no real basis in fact to be confident that any of those things can or will happen. Yet with the possible exception of Felix all of those bets in the rotation must pay off.

 

At this point we don't even know where to slot Lester in. Is he the 3 just behind Buch and ahead of Lackey? Is he the 2 behind Dempster and ahead of Buch? If Dempster is our opening day pitcher is that something encouraging?

 

Clearly the Sox don't want to let go of there minor league talent but for what purpose? So they can get injured down there delaying their progress indefinitely? That is basically what they have done the past few years at least with those guys that they did not trade away.

[jung]

Why should they trade Iggy now?...cause they are not going to move him up in the system and he probably has enough trade value as part of a package to bring back help in an area where the Sox are weaker. In my view they are spending much to much time trying to turn this mess around and actually make a run of some sort in 2013 when all the Napolis and Drews in the world will not help them unless there is much more help coming for the rotation. If somebody wanted him as part of a package that would bring back pitching he would be gone for me. They are not going to use Iggy....that should be plain as day at this point. So what are we doing? We are going to keep him down on our farm in case Drew and Ciriaco go down when we are still this weak in pitching.

 

And that is my point about a number of the moves they have made this off season. It might make them respectable in the sense of winning 80+ games in 2013....so what. Why are we going to care about this baseball team unless it is going to make a serious run at the post season. It has signed a bunch of short term deals with guys that have no real future here. While they might be good clubhouse guys, I don't see Red Sox nation falling in love with Gomes and Napoli....they might get a little excited about Victorino.

 

Unfortunately, many teams in the AL think this is their year and they are either all in like the Jays or close to it. Hell the Royals think they are going to kick our ass this year.

 

I agree with the short term deals but they should have made them to players that help supplement the play of young players that we would end up caring about instead of making deals for players that keep guys we would care about from getting playing time. They should have taken LaRoche not Napoli especially if this was their Napoli plan all along. LaRoche would help if you were going to have a young left side of the infield. Napoli won't. Victorino was fine because he frees the Sox to try to do something with Ells but if Victorino keeps Kalish on the pine for 2013 I don't think I like that deal that much either.

 

If Iggy cannot be part of a package that helps the pitching, then leave him there. But he will never be the Sox starting SS as long as this FO regime is in place unless he is the last option and they are stuck using the last option. They made that decision this weekend and to be honest iggy cuts entirely against the grain of the typical Sox SS whether this FO regime or some past FO regime.

 

Frankly I would not have brought Drew in here because Drew is all about 2013. I would have given Iggy the job and let him swim or drown. Unless all the gambles they are making in the rotation pay off and I mean all of them, this team is going nowhere in 2013. It just isn't. They just paid for the privilege of bringing in another rotation question mark in the form of Dempster. The entire rotation is standing on quicksand playing 81 games in a ballpark that is a notorious hitters ballpark and it has so far constructed an offense that might be good but is not daunting. So what the hell are they doing dicking around with Drew? Maybe if they packaged up and sent either Lester or Buch on their way for a solid pitcher and turned at least one rotation question mark into somebody not standing on quicksand, then I would be more inclined to this 2013 constructed team. But the only effort they seemed to have made around Lester was to KC and that was not a serious effort, not with the Rays in the game and it was not a package deal intended to bring back a rotation piece to take Lester's spot.

 

Right now we are going to start the season wondering what Lackey will have in his first year back from TJ, if Buch can actually start 30 games and pitch about 180 innings, if Lester can recover and be the Lester of old, if Dempster can pitch effectively in the AL East and if Felix can go about 25 starts and 150 innings effectively with no real basis in fact to be confident that any of those things can or will happen. Yet with the possible exception of Felix all of those bets in the rotation must pay off.

 

At this point we don't even know where to slot Lester in. Is he the 3 just behind Buch and ahead of Lackey? Is he the 2 behind Dempster and ahead of Buch? If Dempster is our opening day pitcher is that something encouraging?

 

Clearly the Sox don't want to let go of there minor league talent but for what purpose? So they can get injured down there delaying their progress indefinitely? That is basically what they have done the past few years at least with those guys that they did not trade away.

[SoxSport]

Another waste of $10 million. They have Iggy, Ciriaco and Bogaerts. That's enough for a team that stands little chance of making the playoffs next year.

They keep signing retreads, and blocking playing time for younger players. The retreads are not going to get them anywhere.

[SoxSport]

I would say the same with Iggy, but they brought him up anyway. He sucked. Iggy isn't ready.

 

The whole team sucked last year, in case you didn't notice. They quit after the Dodger deal.

Iglesias was hitting well in Pawtucket when they brought him up on advice of the Pawsox manager. He came into a pretty negative environment, and didn't show much as a hitter.

But way too much was expected, which might be his problem.

 

The kid should be traded to a team that values defense at SS. He's only 22 and has already been written off by many fans because of the emphasis on offense in this one dimensional organization. Let him go elsewhere to a team that handles prospects better.

[KCBRUIN]

I'm not writing him off, but he at the moment is one dimensional. He's a liability at the plate, and not ready for prime time. When he learns to hit bring him up for good, but I think Bogaerts will beat him to full time SS. When/If Iggy is ready, and stops being one dimensional, put him at SS and move Bogaerts to first or OF. I think he'll be traded before that happens tho.

[Dojji]

People are so binary with prospects. Prospects that come up are judged as either studs or Busts within 2 years. Not very realistic. And not a lot of room to admit that a guy provided some value without being all that -- those players tend to be lumped in with the busts instead.

 

Iglesias is what he is. He was brought up with the potential to be a great player if he could prevent his bat from becoming a liability. His bat is a liability which limits his usefulness, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective as a part timer. And if he is, he's officially beaten the odds. If his play as a part timer helps us win anything so much the better.

 

Right now Iglesias is valued correctly. He has enough upside to be Pawtucket's starting SS and a reasonable third man on anyone's shortstop depth chart. If Drew goes down I don't mind Ciriaco and Iglesias fighting for playing time. That seems to be a pretty good situation to me that neither undervalues, nor overvalues, any of the players involved. I'm not anxious to try to "fix" this situation because from what I've seen it looks like it could work.

[Orange Juiced]

Actually... Look at his recent stats. He isn't that much different than Aviles, who will be earning about 2 million in arbitration this year.

 

The last two years he suffered various injuries which limited his playing time and effectiveness. During those two seasons he put up this combined line:

 

165 g, 12 hr, 73 rbi, .238/.313/.373/.687, 86 ops+

 

Ok, that's not very good, obviously. But the three seasons before that, he put up this combined line:

 

438 g, 48 hr, 193 rbi, .277/.335/.465/.800, 105 ops+

 

So that's much, much better. When playing to his ability, he's an excellent hitting shortstop. For a one-year deal, it's worth a shot. He definitely makes the lineup a lot better, as even his last two seasons are better than what Iglesias would likely have put up.

 

CF Ellsbury

2b Pedroia

DH Ortiz

1b Napoli (we think)

3b Middlebrooks

LF Gomes/Kalish

C Salty/Lavarnway

RF Victorino

SS Drew

 

They still need one more starting pitcher. I really would like for them to trade Salty and get Floyd back. It's a deal that makes too much sense.

[Orange Juiced]

Another waste of $10 million. They have Iggy, Ciriaco and Bogaerts. That's enough for a team that stands little chance of making the playoffs next year.

They keep signing retreads, and blocking playing time for younger players. The retreads are not going to get them anywhere.

 

One year of Stephen Drew is not blocking anybody. If Iggy goes nuts in AAA or if Bogaerts shows he's ready, Drew's contract is probably very tradeable.

 

Stephen Drew is not going to be the roadblock for either Iglesias or Bogaerts if either of those guys proves to be ready to make the leap.

[Dojji]

Why should they trade Iggy now?...cause they are not going to move him up in the system and he probably has enough trade value as part of a package to bring back help in an area where the Sox are weaker.

 

Shortstop is one of the weakest areas of the team, behind only catcher and SP. You trade away a position of strength to shore up your weaknesses. Not the other way around.

 

 

And that is my point about a number of the moves they have made this off season. It might make them respectable in the sense of winning 80+ games in 2013....so what. Why are we going to care about this baseball team unless it is going to make a serious run at the post season. It has signed a bunch of short term deals with guys that have no real future here. While they might be good clubhouse guys, I don't see Red Sox nation falling in love with Gomes and Napoli....they might get a little excited about Victorino.

 

You always put yourself in the best situatiuon you can to succeed. This is the most random sport in the world. You can play the odds but you just never know. Heck we were supposed to win the World Series 2 years ago and one of the most random things imaginable prevented us from even reaching the postseason.

 

This is a sport where one of the biggest jobs of any GM is to make sure you're in a position to get lucky, even when you're not one of THE best teams. Because you never know.

 

I agree with the short term deals but they should have made them to players that help supplement the play of young players that we would end up caring about instead of making deals for players that keep guys we would care about from getting playing time.

 

The only young player blocked in the slightest by any deal the Red Sox have made is Ryan Lavarnway.

 

If Iggy cannot be part of a package that helps the pitching, then leave him there. But he will never be the Sox starting SS as long as this FO regime is in place unless he is the last option and they are stuck using the last option. They made that decision this weekend and to be honest iggy cuts entirely against the grain of the typical Sox SS whether this FO regime or some past FO regime.

 

You're ignoring the nontrivial value Iggy represents sitting right where he is, as a warm body able to come up and play SS at a high level off the bench, add some speed, and unless you really think he's going to turn it around with his bat in the nest 24 months, he's exactly the player you call up in an injury-insurance situation exactly because Iglesias has so little upside over what he is right now while doing at least one really important thing really well. And if he showcases well in his cups of coffee, you might get a better offer at the end of the season than you're getting right now.

 

Clearly the Sox don't want to let go of there minor league talent but for what purpose? So they can get injured down there delaying their progress indefinitely? That is basically what they have done the past few years at least with those guys that they did not trade away.

 

Because it is absolutely unheard of for players to improve their chances to succeed in the majors for being given more time in the minors.

[SoxSport]

 

Because it is absolutely unheard of for players to improve their chances to succeed in the majors for being given more time in the minors.

 

Every player needs some time in the minors. But it's true that there is a point of diminishing returns, where you are just obstructing a guy's major league career. Kalish is an example of that. He was blocked a couple of years ago, went back to AAA and got seriously hurt. Hasn't been the same since.

[jung]

See I would trade more off the chance to get lucky when the odds are so far against and give the younger players all the playing time I could in 2013. In my view if Iggy comes up again after spending some number of months in AAA he will go right in the tank again as he did last time and will have to work his way out. Either he will be given the time to do that or he won't. I don't think his hitting will enjoy some remarkable turnaround spending more time down in AAA.

 

If you recall, for at least half of the limited time he was up here last year he brought a slap hitting style with him that was getting him no place up here. I don't know where he got it, where he was taught to hit that way but he certainly brought it with him out of AAA and it was in the main responsible for his inability to even get the ball out of the infield even when he did hit it. Either he brought it with him or he was so overwhelmed by the dif in pitching between AAA and here that he adopted a defensive hitting posture as a consequence. It was not until later in his ML stint that he rid himself of that slap hitting style, started getting his hips and body into his swing and he showed some improvement in his ability to hit the ball at that point.

 

If that slap hitting style is something they are allowing him to get away with in AAA or whatever the hell is at the heart of that, I have eyes. I can see that he brought it with him to the Sox and finally got rid of it toward the end of his stint up here. Without anything other than my eyes to go by, I have to assume that he was slap hitting the ball for his entire AAA stink in the 2012 campaign. If he goes back to that again while down there, that alone would be enough to convince me that he should not have gone back there.

[NativeBostonian]

Let's hope he's recovered from his ankle injury and returns to his diamondback form.

[NZSox]

The only young player blocked in the slightest by any deal the Red Sox have made is Ryan Lavarnway.

 

Agreed, and that's assuming we don't trade Salty, which personally I think we will. In fact, it looks a certainty. A Ross/Napoli/Lavarnway platoon is definitely sufficient.

[Lord Snow]

The Drew signing isn't a bad one. I think he is being overpaid by about $7M but the Sox have the flexibility to give it to him, and he was the "best" free agent SS on the market.

 

When I first heard the reports I was thinking he was getting a 3-year contract considering how many the Sox have dished out to undeserving players this off-season.

 

I feel better a bit better about the Sox's line-up next season. If the Sox can get an .800 OPS out of him it would be a great move, at .750 its still okay, considering the next best option was likely to be Iglesias at .200/.230/.300/.530

[Dojji]

Every player needs some time in the minors. But it's true that there is a point of diminishing returns, where you are just obstructing a guy's major league career. Kalish is an example of that. He was blocked a couple of years ago, went back to AAA and got seriously hurt. Hasn't been the same since.

 

There's no reason to believe Kalish wouldn't have had the same injury in the bigs, so that's failthought.

 

The only player for whom those diminishing returns are an actual factor is Lavarnway. Everyone else sans Sands is much too green to worry about, and I think Sands cracks the roster as an all purpose benchie.

[Lord Snow]

Agreed, and that's assuming we don't trade Salty, which personally I think we will. In fact, it looks a certainty. A Ross/Napoli/Lavarnway platoon is definitely sufficient.

 

Salty may not be Jason Varitek in his prime, or Yadier Molina, but he is an above average catcher, even if his defense is average at best. There aren't many out there who can hit 25 home runs, that alone makes him a worthwhile threat in the line-up and changes the way that he has to be pitched to.

 

Some of the best Red Sox line-ups have been ones where every player in the line-up was a real threat to go deep. The 2004 Red Sox were one of those teams. And Salty is one of those players. Home runs count for something, and those are the players you need at the plate when you're down a run or two in the 9th.

[jacksonianmarch]

LS, empty power isn't a terribly useful trait. And calling Salty's D avg at best is hilarious. He's a total defensive butcher

[Lord Snow]

LS, empty power isn't a terribly useful trait. And calling Salty's D avg at best is hilarious. He's a total defensive butcher

 

But look at his options for replacement.

 

Do you really want somebody who posts Salty average and Salty OBP with no Salty power?

 

Because thats what you're getting in Lavarnway and Ross. Lavarnway could develop into an average-above average everyday hitting catcher but it hasn't happened yet.

[BSN07]

But look at his options for replacement.

 

Do you really want somebody who posts Salty average and Salty OBP with no Salty power?

 

Because thats what you're getting in Lavarnway and Ross. Lavarnway could develop into an average-above average everyday hitting catcher but it hasn't happened yet.

 

I do if it has a positive effect on the Pitching staff.

[lospunchados]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another Drew. But , he was the best SS available and, though overpaid, it is fantasticallt only a one year deal. They obviously don't believe in Iggy or Ciriaco or they wouldn't have made the signing.

[jung]

Salty is a laughing stock as a catcher....utterly and completely hideous...quite possibly the worst target in all baseball along with all of his other pitcher related catching traits. Terrifyingly bad defender sometimes even forgetting that home plate is his base to cover! Only occasionally blocks the plate well when he remembers that its part of his job.

 

Made some improvements throwing the ball last year but the game still goes to fast for Salty. I suspect he has improved back there as much as he is going to improve at this point.

 

While the HR's are nice they come with a huge penalty in K's even for a catcher, a position player usually far enough down in the order to allow for some forgiveness with regard to K's.

[Palodios]

He's had 2 seasons of over 800 OPS .

He's dipped a bit recently due to his injury.

If he's fully recovered I wouldn't be schocked if returns to a 800 OPS player

 

Aviles had a season of a .833 OPS, and one of a .748 OPS.

 

Aviles's career OPS is .715 with a UZR/150 of 9.3.

Drew's career OPS is .762 with a UZR/150 of -4.3.

 

I would argue that the differences are negligible. Fenway Park may be a good thing for Drew, but as it stands right now, the Farrell trade is looking very ugly.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Aviles had a season of a .833 OPS, and one of a .748 OPS.

 

Aviles's career OPS is .715 with a UZR/150 of 9.3.

Drew's career OPS is .762 with a UZR/150 of -4.3.

 

I would argue that the differences are negligible. Fenway Park may be a good thing for Drew, but as it stands right now, the Farrell trade is looking very ugly.

 

Come on you can't be defending Aviles. The direction his stats are heading in are so far gone from those career highlights. He doesn't get on base, is aging, and despite what suspect defensive metrics say, he is an average fielding SS at best.

 

Drew has significant pedigree, at the age Aviles got into the majors Drew had already been there for four years. The upside is night and day compared to Aviles and he actually could be one of the better hitting SS out there.