8/22 vs Angels

[jung]

As much as people tend to be non-plussed by the prospect for good player deals, look at the future flexibility those two guys give the Sox. They gave up flexibility in the short run as there were a number of moves that they almost had to make after offing Beltre.

 

You can play the game at least two ways that we see a good deal. You can constantly feed your farm system yielding steady performance over a long period of time....However don't kid yourself....generally you have to start the process with a few years of high draft picks and you have to be smart about how you spend those draft picks...pitching, pitching, pitching. You will likely have good teams but not great teams. If you are careful about FA signings you might improve your chances for a few more great teams

 

or

 

you can spend your farm system more liberally on trades that bring you star players but often will rob you of as much as an entire year of player development in the form of guys that would have worked their way up to the bigs. You improve your chances for more great teams but God help you if you get stupid about how you do it either by having another agenda or just being stupid about how you do it.

 

The Rays are an example of the former and the Sox of late have been an example of the latter.

 

I would like to see much more of the former from the Sox and I would like to see much more sense used in how they spend the money and prospects the Sox spend in star player trades and FA signings.

 

You don't have to be the Rays and you surely don't have to be the Yankees to be successful. In fact I would have thought the Sox were in a great position to build strong teams that could be restocked regularly had ownership not gotten so wrong headed in the middle of it all.

 

I had initial hopes that 2012 could be the beginning of a new era until I saw how poor the Sox evaluation of talent seemed to be and how stubborn they were about some of these knuckle-headed decisions. Now I don't think they can make headway unless they clean house.

[Elktonnick]

As much as people tend to be non-plussed by the prospect for good player deals, look at the future flexibility those two guys give the Sox. They gave up flexibility in the short run as there were a number of moves that they almost had to make after offing Beltre.

 

You can play the game at least two ways that we see a good deal. You can constantly feed your farm system yielding steady performance over a long period of time....However don't kid yourself....generally you have to start the process with a few years of high draft picks and you have to be smart about how you spend those draft picks...pitching, pitching, pitching. You will likely have good teams but not great teams. If you are careful about FA signings you might improve your chances for a few more great teams

 

or

 

you can spend your farm system more liberally on trades that bring you star players but often will rob you of as much as an entire year of player development in the form of guys that would have worked their way up to the bigs. You improve your chances for more great teams but God help you if you get stupid about how you do it either by having another agenda or just being stupid about how you do it.

 

The Rays are an example of the former and the Sox of late have been an example of the latter.

 

I would like to see much more of the former from the Sox and I would like to see much more sense used in how they spend the money and prospects the Sox spend in star player trades and FA signings.

 

You don't have to be the Rays and you surely don't have to be the Yankees to be successful. In fact I would have thought the Sox were in a great position to build strong teams that could be restocked regularly had ownership not gotten so wrong headed in the middle of it all.

 

I had initial hopes that 2012 could be the beginning of a new era until I saw how poor the Sox evaluation of talent seemed to be and how stubborn they were about some of these knuckle-headed decisions. Now I don't think they can make headway unless they clean house.

 

They can start by firing everyone who doesn't wear a uniform before they begin firing anyone with a uniform.

[jung]

Ells becoming the new AGons...good for a useless hit to pad the stats.

[jung]

They can start by firing everyone who doesn't wear a uniform before they begin firing anyone with a uniform.

 

I should have been more specific using the term "Clean house". I do mean they need to clean out that entire nest of idiots on the offices of the Red Sox.

[NativeBostonian]

I want our idiots back. That team was so fun to watch.

[jung]

Another really tough night tonight. Looks more and more like the Sox are going to close out the season on a run of series the opposite of what we would have wanted, going 1-2 in three game series and lucky to split four game series. These guys are fooling around with 74-88 or something equally disgusting for a record.

[DocHolliday]

As much as people tend to be non-plussed by the prospect for good player deals, look at the future flexibility those two guys give the Sox. They gave up flexibility in the short run as there were a number of moves that they almost had to make after offing Beltre.

 

You can play the game at least two ways that we see a good deal. You can constantly feed your farm system yielding steady performance over a long period of time....However don't kid yourself....generally you have to start the process with a few years of high draft picks and you have to be smart about how you spend those draft picks...pitching, pitching, pitching. You will likely have good teams but not great teams. If you are careful about FA signings you might improve your chances for a few more great teams

 

or

 

you can spend your farm system more liberally on trades that bring you star players but often will rob you of as much as an entire year of player development in the form of guys that would have worked their way up to the bigs. You improve your chances for more great teams but God help you if you get stupid about how you do it either by having another agenda or just being stupid about how you do it.

 

The Rays are an example of the former and the Sox of late have been an example of the latter.

 

I would like to see much more of the former from the Sox and I would like to see much more sense used in how they spend the money and prospects the Sox spend in star player trades and FA signings.

 

You don't have to be the Rays and you surely don't have to be the Yankees to be successful. In fact I would have thought the Sox were in a great position to build strong teams that could be restocked regularly had ownership not gotten so wrong headed in the middle of it all.

 

I had initial hopes that 2012 could be the beginning of a new era until I saw how poor the Sox evaluation of talent seemed to be and how stubborn they were about some of these knuckle-headed decisions. Now I don't think they can make headway unless they clean house.

 

That was the niche the Red Sox had and was, in some ways, a market inefficiency. A few years ago, no other club had the commitment to the farm system coupled with the resources available to spend in FA. Then, the business side took the front seat at about the same time they changed up the road jerseys before the 09 season. The Sox moved away from their niche and tried to take the "Yankees" route of not only filling holes, but adding core pieces through the top tier free agents. It would be similar to Target trying to emulate Wal-Mart's business plan. They set themselves up for long term trouble all at the expense of a few perceived short term PR and monetary gains in the ratings.

 

The problem they face now is other teams have emulated their old model and have taken over a previously otherwise unoccupied niche. The team that has increased spending the more than any other club since 2010 - the Texas Rangers are the best example of what the Red Sox used to be. Their farm system is loaded and their new TV deal and previously dormant fan base ought to propel them near the Yankees/Red Sox level of big market.

 

Fact is, the sooner the Red Sox go back to what they did best and their true position in the baseball world, the sooner things can turn around.

[SoxSport]

What killed this team was hubris in the management--right up the line. Hubris leads to complacency.Complacency has been apparent for several years. Just letting opponents steal all those bases was a sign of complacency. They figured stolen bases couldn't hurt them. The stats show it did. Francona used to give up sometimes if the score was too lopsided against them. Plus he never took early in the season very seriously--it seemed. Another sign of hubris.

 

Even now, the front office in denial is a sign of hubris. They did nothing at the trade deadline because they were sure this was the same team of 4 years ago. They sure were wrong.

[jung]

The biggest and most obvious difference between the Rangers and the Red Sox is Nolan Ryan and either John Henry or LL. While the Sox play hid the pea with who really runs the Sox at least in this context it hardly matters. Nether one can polish Ryan's shoes as far as setting a clear organizational path and evaluating talent is concerned.

 

If JH wants to continue to be as detached as he has been he needs to put a Ryan clone in LL's spot for starters.

[SoxSport]

Guys like Ceriaco and even WMB are signposts on the highway. They tell you that the key to the Sox future is not the next monster FA signing, especially for everyday players....it never was. Like I said, what they have done is ONE WAY to keep fannies filling seats, especially if you only have 37K seats to fill.

 

 

Yeah, and Iggy is still festering in the minors. He could have been a real spark if brought up earlier.

[SoxSport]

.

 

If JH wants to continue to be as detached as he has been he needs to put a Ryan clone in LL's spot for starters.

 

That would be John Hart.

[DocHolliday]

That would be John Hart.

 

John Hart, currently senior advisor to the GM of the Texas Rangers.

[jung]

I surely cannot argue against Hart. Probably won't happen...makes to much sense.

 

Man LL must have some pretty incriminating photos of JH doing something awful.

[Station 13]

I wouldn't be shock if they lose 30 of their last 38. They have more road games. Their offense is dead mostly without Ortiz and Middlebrooks.

[jung]

The three guys or I should say combination of two of three that the Sox could not do without was WMB, Pedey and Ortiz. Any combination of two of those three being out was always going to be more devastating than losing Ells and Crawford or any other combination of two everyday players you could consider. While with few exceptions they still can't pitch worth beans now they can't hit good enough to just mash away. They really don't have a way to win games at this point.

[Behindenemylines]

I'm a diehard so even going into the Angels series I had a faint glimmer of hope, but stick a fork into the 2012 Sox because they are done! How many days till pitchers and catchers?

[Behindenemylines]

I'm a diehard so I still had a little hope going into the Angels series, but stick a fork into the 2012 Sox because they are done. How many days till pitchers and catchers? (Computer acting up didn't think first response took, sorry)

[kapsis21]

right there with you.. this was the last glimmer of hope and we just busted it.. no chance absolutely no chance now.. 2012 is over. i was hoping some reverse karma after last year but nope..they dont deserve it.

[Station 13]

This team is 66-85 since last September.

[Behindenemylines]

Never thought of it that way (66-85 since last September), but now I know what it feels like to be an Astros fan. The only difference is the Astros payroll isn't 180 million.

[kapsis21]

I want our idiots back. That team was so fun to watch.

 

you and i think alike mate!