Return of Crawford!!!

[Trillz808]

We are slowly getting all our starters back, and from CC's press conference I just watched it sounds like they have decided to turn him loose on the base paths. Lets just hope he will actually make a difference this year. Good to see Ellsbury already producing, now all we need is Pedey back, combined with some quality starts and we can start climbing the rankings and be where we are suppose to be.

[SouthieFanatic]

I just can't get excited about him coming back. Hope he does come back and kill it, but I just can't say i'm anticipating his return

[Trillz808]

I just can't get excited about him coming back. Hope he does come back and kill it' date=' but I just can't say i'm anticipating his return[/quote']

 

I know what you mean after such a disappointing first season... But that season also was hindered by being held back from taking what he wants on the base paths and f***ing with pitchers heads like he did in Tampa. Hopefully he surprises us all and has a breakout bounce back performance like ellsbury had last year. Any true Sox fan knows ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE

[SoxSport]

Yeah, that weekend in Pawtucket did him a world of good.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Trillz, just to be clear, SoxSport hates Crawford for some reason. He had a bad season, but that's no reason to be so negative you can't see straight about a player, especially when he was extremely successful for years before that.

[BornToRun]

Well sox fan logic dictates that an entire career worth of awesome is erased with 1 bad year or in some cases, 1 bad half. You should know that. Come on man.

[SCM33]

Well sox fan logic dictates that an entire career worth of awesome is erased with 1 bad year or in some cases' date=' 1 bad half. You should know that. Come on man.[/quote']

 

I have never agreed with the signing, but he will be fine.

[jung]

I never liked it and never will but also think Crawford will be OK. That is in part the problem. When it is all said and done I think CC is Ells light for way to much money.....enough money to make it hard to believe the Sox will sign Ells out of FA where he is surely heading.

[iortiz]

I liked CC signing beyond the money, but he disappointed me a lot. Hopefully he comes back.

[redsoxbeatz]

CC wants to play baseball and he plays it well. I see no reason why he won't be his normal self again.

 

The signing wasn't great, not for that $, but with speedsters like Ells & CC at the top of the lineup we could get a lot of 1st inning runs.

[BecKett]

Speaking of which, is there any chance the Sox try to hold on to Ells? I know it would blow having so much locked up in 2 OFs but it would be such a shame to lose someone playing as well as Ells did last year. He was simply fantastic all season long.

[SCM33]

Speaking of which' date=' is there any chance the Sox try to hold on to Ells? I know it would blow having so much locked up in 2 OFs but it would be such a shame to lose someone playing as well as Ells did last year. He was simply fantastic all season long.[/quote']

 

No way.

 

He is a Boras guy. He will be looking for 20M a year since his teammate Crawford got it.

 

The signing of Crawford signaled the end of Ellsbury.

[Hodor]

Hodor.

[BecKett]

No way.

 

He is a Boras guy. He will be looking for 20M a year since his teammate Crawford got it.

 

The signing of Crawford signaled the end of Ellsbury.

 

Not a bad swap.

 

I think Crawford will be much better, but s***, no chance he puts up a season like Ells did.

[example1]

I thought Crawford looked okay tonight. A good basehit, a line drive to RF and a walk. I'll take it.

 

I hope Crawford comes back to his old form. He's a really exciting player to watch.

[jung]

I thought he did fine. Did not like that first at bat cause the pitch he hit was so far out of the strike zone and was the pitch that he could neither lay off or hit last year. He hit it with that one handed swing in this game but he was clearly fooled and lucked out. All and all though a darned good start.

 

He must not be used to the new stance yet cause he was not setting up the same way all the time. Sometimes he was really pretty close to last year's stance and sometimes he way way more closed than last year. Could not believe my eyes for a bit but then saw the change several times.

[SoxSport]

Crawford was overvalued by the Red Sox because he killed them in TB. But he killed them mainly with his speed--stealing them blind. Ironically, they paid him big bucks and didn't use his speed last year. That has to change. With him and Ells at the top of the lineup, they have to use their speed if this team is going anywhere. That means Valentine has to make this a more running team that can win low scoring games.

[SemperFi Sox]

Pedroia is going to have to be moved from the 2 spot to keep Crawford happy.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Pedroia is going to have to be moved from the 2 spot to keep Crawford happy.

 

Yeh.

 

Why would anyone want a guy who hit .307/.387/.474, 21 HR, 91 RBI, 37 2B hitting in the 3 hole behind two guys who can score from 1st on a double and forces pitchers into mistakes??

 

That would be awful.

[redsoxbeatz]

Yeh.

 

Why would anyone want a guy who hit .307/.387/.474, 21 HR, 91 RBI, 37 2B hitting in the 3 hole behind two guys who can score from 1st on a double and forces pitchers into mistakes??

 

That would be awful.

 

DROOL

[jung]

There is so much more to making over the Red Sox from the offense that they are to the offense we might want them to be. The Sox get the benefit of having two guys at the top of the lineup that can run.

 

Ells got on base a good deal last year. Did they use his speed that much? Did they use CC's speed that much when he got on base? Are the other Red Sox hitters capable of approaching their plate appearances from the perspective of moving guys over....using the speed that is on the bases? Will they balk at the whole thing being that guys moving around out there on the base paths can be distracting for hitters as well as pitchers?

 

This is not only in some sense a question of whether the Sox can do it. It is a question of whether they can play Red Sox Fenway ball when that is the optimal way to play to win a game and then play enough "small ball" to at least be competitive in those kinds of games.

 

Even if Ells and CC had remained healthy at the start of the season did that look like the kind of team that was going to play that way? My guess is that they will get the benefit of distracting pitchers, but from the offensive perspective I would think that for the most part what the Sox will see of that speed benefit will be the ability to go from 1st to 3rd easily on almost any base hit, the ability to score from 1st on more occasions and the ability to score from second more easily.

 

While that is a big deal, I would question whether it becomes the cornerstone of a more capable small ball offense. The point is, this team has never been good at manufacturing runs and I really don't expect some metamorphosis into a team that is suddenly good at it. That depends to much on the will, the desire and the capabilities of the hitters that hit behind Ells and CC. Clearly they should and will steal more bases with Ells and CC than they have so far. However I also do not think stealing will be V's first option especially playing in Fenway.

 

Even the hit and run takes the bat to some extent out of the hitter's hands and that can be a tough thing to convince yourself to do playing in Fenway. That is one of the big differences between playing in Fenway and playing elsewhere. Even with two outs it is tough in Fenway to risk taking the bat out of the hands of your 3, 4, or 5 hitters, the guys most likely to be up with Ells or CC on 1st base. Then when the Sox are away from Fenway will they play differently than they do now. They certainly have never done that before. How many times last night did we see posters asking for a steal? Even Remy suggested that Ells steal with two outs at one point since if caught the Sox could start the next inning with CC at the plate. Did it happen?

 

I have commented many times that I never liked the CC deal from the start. However not liking it I was also more willing to believe that Theo thought his chances of signing Ells when he went to FA were slim and wanted to protect against that more than ever envisioning these two guys spending much time together in the same offense. That is also in part why spending the money to keep both is such a huge overspend or would be at any rate. I do think Theo thought he had quite possibly built himself a champion for the 2011 season at any rate although he glossed over much of what eventually bit the Sox right in the ass while doing it.

 

The Sox would have to change their entire organizational mind set to developing hitters and offense generally in order to really use two guys like Ells and CC effectively. While I actually think a more balanced offense would be a very beneficial change for the Sox to make, I am not convinced they want to, I am not convinced they see it that way and I surely don't think they will make such a change overnight even if they want to do it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

There is so much more to making over the Red Sox from the offense that they are to the offense we might want them to be. The Sox get the benefit of having two guys at the top of the lineup that can run.

 

Ells got on base a good deal last year. Did they use his speed that much? Did they use CC's speed that much when he got on base? Are the other Red Sox hitters capable of approaching their plate appearances from the perspective of moving guys over....using the speed that is on the bases? Will they balk at the whole thing being that guys moving around out there on the base paths can be distracting for hitters as well as pitchers?

 

This is not only in some sense a question of whether the Sox can do it. It is a question of whether they can play Red Sox Fenway ball when that is the optimal way to play to win a game and then play enough "small ball" to at least be competitive in those kinds of games.

 

Even if Ells and CC had remained healthy at the start of the season did that look like the kind of team that was going to play that way? My guess is that they will get the benefit of distracting pitchers, but from the offensive perspective I would think that for the most part what the Sox will see of that speed benefit will be the ability to go from 1st to 3rd easily on almost any base hit, the ability to score from 1st on more occasions and the ability to score from second more easily.

 

While that is a big deal, I would question whether it becomes the cornerstone of a more capable small ball offense. The point is, this team has never been good at manufacturing runs and I really don't expect some metamorphosis into a team that is suddenly good at it. That depends to much on the will, the desire and the capabilities of the hitters that hit behind Ells and CC. Clearly they should and will steal more bases with Ells and CC than they have so far. However I also do not think stealing will be V's first option especially playing in Fenway.

 

Even the hit and run takes the bat to some extent out of the hitter's hands and that can be a tough thing to convince yourself to do playing in Fenway. That is one of the big differences between playing in Fenway and playing elsewhere. Even with two outs it is tough in Fenway to risk taking the bat out of the hands of your 3, 4, or 5 hitters, the guys most likely to be up with Ells or CC on 1st base. Then when the Sox are away from Fenway will they play differently than they do now. They certainly have never done that before. How many times last night did we see posters asking for a steal? Even Remy suggested that Ells steal with two outs at one point since if caught the Sox could start the next inning with CC at the plate. Did it happen?

 

I have commented many times that I never liked the CC deal from the start. However not liking it I was also more willing to believe that Theo thought his chances of signing Ells when he went to FA were slim and wanted to protect against that more than ever envisioning these two guys spending much time together in the same offense. That is also in part why spending the money to keep both is such a huge overspend or would be at any rate. I do think Theo thought he had quite possibly built himself a champion for the 2011 season at any rate although he glossed over much of what eventually bit the Sox right in the ass while doing it.

 

The Sox would have to change their entire organizational mind set to developing hitters and offense generally in order to really use two guys like Ells and CC effectively. While I actually think a more balanced offense would be a very beneficial change for the Sox to make, I am not convinced they want to, I am not convinced they see it that way and I surely don't think they will make such a change overnight even if they want to do it.

 

Couple things:

 

1. Ellsbury stole 70 bags in 2009. It's not that this team is afraid to run, they just pick their spots. I don't think we can look at this season and suggest that it's not a team that will manufacture runs when we've seen 1 game with Ellsbury and Crawford in it.

 

2. It was Ciriaco on 1st when Remy was talking about stealing, and Crawford swung at the 2nd pitch, so he had 1 chance to go. So that's a non factor.

 

3. Aviles stole 2nd base in the 8th with 2 outs and Ciriaco hitting.

 

Plain and simple, under V, they haven't had much of a chance to manufacture runs. They have had virtually no speed. Aviles is not a SB threat by any means, and I believe he's leading the team.

 

Just because they pick their spots doesn't mean they're afraid of stealing, or not into manufacturing runs. Last night, Crawford walked in the 8th on 5 pitches. That would have been a perfect time to steal....except the pitcher couldn't find the strike zone. Why risk running when you're likely going to be moved to 2nd on a walk?

 

With Ellsbury and Crawford at the top of the order, I think you'll see quite a bit more aggressiveness on the basepaths, specifically stealing. I don't think you can make any kind of judgement based on last night or the other 10 games that had Ellsbury in it.

[jung]

I said they would steal more. I just don't believe that is a basis for being able to play small ball for all the reasons I stated above.

 

The point being, I think they will score more runs...without question. I just don't think it makes them much better at winning those 3-2, 4-3, one run, low scoring grind it out games, particularly since they are not currently even passible at it and have almost never been though their history....Ells acknowledged speed already having been part of their game.

 

They don't bunt worth s***....they don't sacrifice worth s***...they don't with very few exceptions move the ball and spray the ball around the outfield worth s***. Without the kinds of hitters hitting behind them that do that stuff, the most benefit you get is a few more steals (and a few more caught stealing to go with them) and what I would suggest is the biggest benefit, going from 1st to 3rd, scoring from 2nd and and scoring from 1st. However all of those situations are base hit situations. Either the guy hitting behind gets a base hit or he does not and that is basically he same team they have today. That is my primary point.

[redsoxbeatz]

No way.

 

He is a Boras guy. He will be looking for 20M a year since his teammate Crawford got it.

 

The signing of Crawford signaled the end of Ellsbury.

 

Sucks!!

 

CC had a great track record so it can be said he "deserved" the 20mm/yr.

 

Ells is younger with a track record of injuries & 1 superb season.

 

I wish the Sox could resign him to like, 15mm/yr for 5 years.

[jung]

With all due respect $142 for 7 for Crawford was a monster overpay an absolute monster.

 

For everyday players...power equals dollars unless you have some other outstanding quality that supplements power to such a great degree......No.....speed is not it. The most HR's Carl has ever hit was 19 and he had one year at 18.

 

That was a huge overpay particularly damaging in light of what it will do to Ells numbers at least for the Sox. CC is not more than Ells light and what about CC's injury record now?

[SoxSport]

No way.

 

He is a Boras guy. He will be looking for 20M a year since his teammate Crawford got it.

 

The signing of Crawford signaled the end of Ellsbury.

 

Ditto. Which is why Ells is trade bait. I suspect they would deal him for Felix in a minute.

[BornToRun]

With all due respect $142 for 7 for Crawford was a monster overpay an absolute monster.

 

For everyday players...power equals dollars unless you have some other outstanding quality that supplements power to such a great degree......No.....speed is not it. The most HR's Carl has ever hit was 19 and he had one year at 18.

 

That was a huge overpay particularly damaging in light of what it will do to Ells numbers at least for the Sox. CC is not more than Ells light and what about CC's injury record now?

 

I do like the Crawford signing but we paid him a s*** ton more than we should have. He's a great player and I'm glad he's on our side but we shouldn't have given him as much as we did.

[SoxSport]

Pedroia is going to have to be moved from the 2 spot to keep Crawford happy.

 

Pedey should lead off or bat 3rd. Ellsbury has shown enough power to bat 3rd as well.

[SoxSport]

Couple things:

 

1. Ellsbury stole 70 bags in 2009. It's not that this team is afraid to run, they just pick their spots. I don't think we can look at this season and suggest that it's not a team that will manufacture runs when we've seen 1 game with Ellsbury and Crawford in it.

 

2. It was Ciriaco on 1st when Remy was talking about stealing, and Crawford swung at the 2nd pitch, so he had 1 chance to go. So that's a non factor.

 

3. Aviles stole 2nd base in the 8th with 2 outs and Ciriaco hitting.

 

Plain and simple, under V, they haven't had much of a chance to manufacture runs. They have had virtually no speed. Aviles is not a SB threat by any means, and I believe he's leading the team.

 

Just because they pick their spots doesn't mean they're afraid of stealing, or not into manufacturing runs. Last night, Crawford walked in the 8th on 5 pitches. That would have been a perfect time to steal....except the pitcher couldn't find the strike zone. Why risk running when you're likely going to be moved to 2nd on a walk?

 

With Ellsbury and Crawford at the top of the order, I think you'll see quite a bit more aggressiveness on the basepaths, specifically stealing. I don't think you can make any kind of judgement based on last night or the other 10 games that had Ellsbury in it.

 

I hear ya. V has those two guys at the top for a reason. They have to start getting on base and stealing like hell. Tha means walks, which both have trouble getting.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Pedey should lead off or bat 3rd. Ellsbury has shown enough power to bat 3rd as well.

 

I love ellsbury at 3rd, but I would move Crawford to lead-off and keep petey 2nd before I would do the opposite....

Possible lineup:

 

Crawford

Petey

Ellsbury

Gonzo

Ortiz

WMB

Salty

Ross/Sweeney/nava

Aviles

 

There's not another lineup in MLB that can match that