Grade the 2012 Red Sox

[Emmz]

I like rubbing it in because of how blind some people are to the reality, which is that Salty is pretty average. It's to illustrate a point.

[SCM33]

I like rubbing it in because of how blind some people are to the reality' date=' which is that Salty is pretty average. It's to illustrate a point.[/quote']

 

Yeah, Dojji will create a couple more threads about him at some point this year.

 

"Salty starting to tear it up"

"Salty starting to turn it around"

"So how about Salty?"

"Me luv some Salty nuts"

[Emmz]

Only if he starts hitting again. If he starts hitting again, I will eat a lot of crow, but going on his past, I am seriously doubting it.

[ellsburyforMVP]

I was on the fence between D and F' date=' then I thought about the general "f*** you just give me the money" attitude of a lot of the players and FO people give the fan base and coupled that with the s***** play and the needle shifted to F plus. As far as the injury ********, not only does every team have injuries, it seems like the Sox like to rush people to the DL for years now to have more excuses for going downhill for the last four years. The complacent heads up their asses crowd eats it right up and forks over their dollars this prolonging the inevitable overhaul of this team that is an embarrassment to their uniforms. 2 games back in the wildcard? Might as well be 20. A "B"? Come on man, take the blinders off already.[/quote']

 

Please explain why "2 gms back in the WC, might as well be 20"? I've not had any " blinders on" as in my comment I said they are playing horrible?

 

But to think that a healthy sox team only a couple gms back in the WC is completely out of the playoff picture is absurd

[SCM33]

Please explain why "2 gms back in the WC, might as well be 20"? I've not had any " blinders on" as in my comment I said they are playing horrible?

 

But to think that a healthy sox team only a couple gms back in the WC is completely out of the playoff picture is absurd

 

They have no shot. Their starting pitchers have been healthy almost all year long. Their starting pitching is the problem, not injuries to Ellsbury or Crawford.

[iortiz]

They have no shot. Their starting pitchers have been healthy almost all year long. Their starting pitching is the problem' date=' not injuries to Ellsbury or Crawford.[/quote']

 

Yup, I think that we all agree that our starting pitching deserves at very best a D or even a F and our offense probably a B or a C+ if you want.

[Brennan]

Please explain why "2 gms back in the WC, might as well be 20"? I've not had any " blinders on" as in my comment I said they are playing horrible?

 

But to think that a healthy sox team only a couple gms back in the WC is completely out of the playoff picture is absurd

 

 

 

 

Don't delude yourself to think that they are playing horrible. It will be August soon, they ARE horrible. Like SCM said, they are a .500 team. I actually thing they might be worse. My F grade is a lot closer to their average score of D than your B is, take it up with everyone else.

[Emmz]

A healthy Crawford and Ellsbury means a chance to go from C+/B hitting to A hitting. It's not over, and everyone's just conceded that the rotation makes no improvement. The "it's over" crowd will change their tune if they go on a tear, and bitch the second they drop consecutive games.

 

Lots of time left people.

[Brennan]

What is this "healthy Crawford and Ellsbury" you speak of? Listen, I think Ellsbury was a special player in his short career but I think he will ride out the rest of his contract with injury after injury. He will be "healthy" when boras gets him the hell out of Boston. I think Crawford is taking a page out of his book. It seems that alot of players have soured on the organization in recent years and they have had a few ugly breakups. Hell, more than half of the team we are fielding this year seem to not give two shits and half a f***. It is an ugly dynamic they have going on. I haven't seen what I would call "cohesiveness" on this team for quite a few years now.

[Guest]

I like rubbing it in because of how blind some people are to the reality' date=' which is that Salty is pretty average. It's to illustrate a point.[/quote']

 

Here are the stats to back that up:

 

2011 until Aug 1: .261/.790

2011 after Aug 1: .191/.646

2012 until June 8: .278/.906

2012 after June 8: .223/.695

 

He just got an early start this year with his tailspin. Add to that his defensive problems and it adds up to an expendable catcher.

[a700hitter]

A healthy Crawford and Ellsbury means a chance to go from C+/B hitting to A hitting. It's not over, and everyone's just conceded that the rotation makes no improvement. The "it's over" crowd will change their tune if they go on a tear, and bitch the second they drop consecutive games.

 

Lots of time left people.

They can absolutely win a wild card slot. The division is over. The wild card slot will be a dead end if Beckett and Lester cannot turn arounfd their seasons, and i don't see that coming. I think they need to land a closer to have any chance of getting to and going deep into October. Lester and Beckett are not aces and will continue to s*** the bed in big games.

[SCM33]

A healthy Crawford and Ellsbury means a chance to go from C+/B hitting to A hitting. It's not over, and everyone's just conceded that the rotation makes no improvement. The "it's over" crowd will change their tune if they go on a tear, and bitch the second they drop consecutive games.

 

Lots of time left people.

 

Thats assuming we get the production we expect out of those two, and not the type of production we are getting from Beckett/Lester. If Crawford comes back and hits like he did last year, we are better off with Nava/Sweeney/Kalish (I just threw up). Ellsbury was a little Brady Anderson like last year, we can't expect him to do that again. That would be unfair to him. Lester I'll give you, I dont expect him to pitch this way all year.

[Guest]

A healthy Crawford and Ellsbury means a chance to go from C+/B hitting to A hitting. It's not over, and everyone's just conceded that the rotation makes no improvement. The "it's over" crowd will change their tune if they go on a tear, and bitch the second they drop consecutive games.

 

Lots of time left people.

 

Not me. I will change my tune when we make it to the World Series. Thats the goal, right? Not backing into the last playoff spot and losing a one game series, which we could still do. This team is toast. They would be better off finishing in last place with a record below .500 so that the owners will have no excuse any more.

[Emmz]

What is this "healthy Crawford and Ellsbury" you speak of? Listen' date=' I think Ellsbury was a special player in his short career but I think he will ride out the rest of his contract with injury after injury. He will be "healthy" when boras gets him the hell out of Boston. I think Crawford is taking a page out of his book. It seems that alot of players have soured on the organization in recent years and they have had a few ugly breakups. Hell, more than half of the team we are fielding this year seem to not give two shits and half a f***. It is an ugly dynamic they have going on. I haven't seen what I would call "cohesiveness" on this team for quite a few years now.[/quote']

 

If that's what you think, I highly doubt I could change your outlook with any amount of valid points.

[Emmz]

Thats assuming we get the production we expect out of those two' date=' and not the type of production we are getting from Beckett/Lester. If Crawford comes back and hits like he did last year, we are better off with Nava/Sweeney/Kalish (I just threw up). Ellsbury was a little Brady Anderson like last year, we can't expect him to do that again. That would be unfair to him. Lester I'll give you, I dont expect him to pitch this way all year.[/quote']

 

Who ever said anything about counting on it? You guys don't even have a wait-and-see approach, it's just over to you, and that's not rational.

[Emmz]

They can absolutely win a wild card slot. The division is over. The wild card slot will be a dead end if Beckett and Lester cannot turn arounfd their seasons' date=' and i don't see that coming. I think they need to land a closer to have any chance of getting to and going deep into October. Lester and Beckett are not aces and will continue to s*** the bed in big games.[/quote']

 

Last I checked we weren't even close to being eliminated.

 

You guys are pretentious, and act like you have a knowledge of the way the season's going to play out, it's a f***ing disgusting display, and makes this site unenjoyable at times.

 

The reality is that if they play the way they have been, they're going to finish with a .500 record or worse. The idea is that things can change, for better or worse.

[Guest]

Last I checked we weren't even close to being eliminated.

 

You guys are pretentious, and act like you have a knowledge of the way the season's going to play out, it's a f***ing disgusting display, and makes this site unenjoyable at times.

 

The reality is that if they play the way they have been, they're going to finish with a .500 record or worse. The idea is that things can change, for better or worse.

 

Do you believe that it is likely that Beckett and Lester will turn their seasons around and pitch like #1 and 2 SPs? No one knows, I realize. This is a best guess question.

[a700hitter]

Overall grade: D

 

A+: Ortiz

 

A- : Middlebrooks, Ross, Nava, Podsednik

 

B+: Salty, Atchison, Morales

 

B: Pedroia, Sweeney, Shoppach

 

C: Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, AGon, Doubront, Aceves, Albers, Cook, Aviles

 

D/F: Dice K, Punto, Front Office, Bobby V, Coaching Staff

[Emmz]

Do you believe that it is likely that Beckett and Lester will turn their seasons around and pitch like #1 and 2 SPs? No one knows' date=' I realize. This is a best guess question.[/quote']

 

I have a "wait and see" outlook. Baseball is a crazy sport, and Lester/Beckett are capable players. I don't think it's likely or unlikely. None of us has a crystal ball that sees into the future, so we should cut the crap on pretending to know how everything turns out.

[Guest]

I have a "wait and see" outlook. Baseball is a crazy sport' date=' and Lester/Beckett are capable players. I don't think it's likely or unlikely. None of us has a crystal ball that sees into the future, so we should cut the crap on pretending to know how everything turns out.[/quote']

 

No one is pretending to KNOW the future here. Some people are making reasonable conclusions based on the only thing they have to go on: recent past performance. That is a logical way to try to see what is likely to happen in the future.

No, its not cast in concrete.

[a700hitter]

Last I checked we weren't even close to being eliminated.

 

You guys are pretentious, and act like you have a knowledge of the way the season's going to play out, it's a f***ing disgusting display, and makes this site unenjoyable at times.

 

The reality is that if they play the way they have been, they're going to finish with a .500 record or worse. The idea is that things can change, for better or worse.

Pretentious? Disgusting? Why are you going there? Have there been any signs of improvement by either Lester or Beck throughout the first half? No, there have been no encouraging signs from either. The team is under .500 in their starts. I have seen nothing for me to believe that either of them will get on track. Lester's numbers regressed significantly last year. I believe that the Red Sox record in his starts last season was not very good. People expected that he would rebound from 2011, but he has not. He has declined even more drastically this season. IMO, if the Red Sox do not get a true ace, they will have trouble making the post season or going deep into the post season, because I do not think Beckett or Lester will step up to be reliable aces in the second half. That's my prediction. Call it pretentious or whatever other insult you like to apply, but that is what I expect from them.

[a700hitter]

I have a "wait and see" outlook. Baseball is a crazy sport' date=' and Lester/Beckett are capable players. I don't think it's likely or unlikely. None of us has a crystal ball that sees into the future, so we should cut the crap on pretending to know how everything turns out.[/quote']So, Vegas should stop posting betting odds? They don't have a crystal ball either.

[Emmz]

No one is pretending to KNOW the future here. Some people are making reasonable conclusions based on the only thing they have to go on: recent past performance. That is a logical way to try to see what is likely to happen in the future.

No, its not cast in concrete.

 

"This team is going nowhere". That is pretending to know. How is that a logical approach?

[Emmz]

So' date=' Vegas should stop posting betting odds? They don't have a crystal ball either.[/quote']

 

Vegas doesn't tell you how the race will end, that's the difference. Pretentious is the word.

[a700hitter]

"This team is going nowhere". That is pretending to know. How is that a logical approach?

I don't think I said that.

[a700hitter]

Vegas doesn't tell you how the race will end' date=' that's the difference. Pretentious is the word.[/quote']I didn't tell you how the wild card race will end.

[Emmz]

You didn't as far as I know of, pumpsie and Brennan keep saying it.

[a700hitter]

You didn't as far as I know of' date=' pumpsie and Brennan keep saying it.[/quote']Then why did you respond to my post with the pretentious and disgusting comments?

[Emmz]

I didn't tell you how the wild card race will end.

 

You told us how the division ends.

[Emmz]

Then why did you respond to my post with the pretentious and disgusting comments?

 

You said we can't win the division. There's about an entire half left, nothing's over. Why would you even watch if you know the results? It's ridiculous.