2012 Catch-All Trade Deadline Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Wow, so they think Garza would require Barnes, too? Imagine that.

 

Dempster OBVIOUSLY commands less and might even be the better play for this season. The other good thing about Dempster is that the guy will be a Type A FA and the acquiring team gets 2 picks if he walks in FA to a team overpaying him for likely a last gasp season in an otherwise underrated career. I think a deal for Dempster is obviously a short term one, where a deal for Garza probably has the acquiring team negotiating a window to extend him past 2013. I think Henry Owens is the logical centerpiece for a deal for Dempster. A guy with humongous upside as well as a long way from current to potential. Add in 2 more players with less upside but safer projection and you probably have him

[a700hitter]

Cross Dempster off the list:

 

The Cubs' much-maligned rotation took another hit Monday when the team placed star starting pitcher Ryan Dempster (3-3) on the 15-day disabled list with right lat tightness. The move was retroactive to last Saturday. Dempster, who has been dealing with the issue for the past few starts and hasn't improved, said the injury is not serious and the team is being cautious. Randy Wells is scheduled to take his spot in the rotation for Wednesday's game against the White Sox. Chicago promoted relief pitcher Scott Maine from Triple-A Iowa to take Dempster's place on the active roster.

[jacksonianmarch]

He shutout the sox with a lat strain. He'd probably have perfected them if healthy

[Spitball]

Dempster-to-Boston makes sense for both sides. from si.com-mlb

 

As the Cubs and Red Sox kick off an interleague series in Chicago on Friday afternoon, all eyes are upon Theo Epstein, who spent nine years as Boston’s general manager and oversaw two World Series winners before departing last fall to embark upon a full-scale rebuilding effort as the Cubs’ president of baseball operations. Epstein’s new team owns the worst record in the major leagues at 21-42, while his old one is mired in fourth place in the AL East at 31-32. As if to underscore both teams’ current situations, the series’ first matchup pits Daisuke Matsuzaka, one of the expensive mistakes to which Epstein alluded earlier this week, in his second start back from Tommy John surgery, against Ryan Dempster, arguably both the best starting pitcher in this summer’s trade market and the Cubs’ most important trade chip. It’s a tough matchup for the Sox given Dempster’s strong performance thus far, but beyond today, the 35-year-old righty could be just what Boston needs.

 

On paper, the Red Sox biggest need remains the rotation. Despite the absence of their projected starting outfield of Carl Crawford, Jacoby Ellsbury and Cody Ross – a trio limited to 44 games thus far, with Ross the only one likely to return in June – and the underperformances of Adrian Gonzalez and Kevin Youkilis, the Sox rank second in the AL in scoring at 5.06 runs per game. On the flip side, their 4.65 runs per game allowed is the league’s third-worst mark, and one for which both ends of the pitching staff bear responsibility given the Fair Run Averages (runs per nine, adjusted for defense, sequencing, and bullpen support) of the rotation (5.18) and bullpen (4.92). All five of Boston’s starters have ERAs well above 4.00, and converted setup man Daniel Bard’s struggles with his control led the team to demote him to Triple-A Pawtucket last week, creating the void that Matsuzaka is currently filling.

 

While the Sox would certainly love to salvage a greater return on the $103 million they invested in Matsuzaka, the reality is that they can’t have much confidence in the 31-year-old Japanese import. Since 2009, Matsuzaka has pitched to a 5.08 ERA while making just 45 starts, his gaudy walk rate (4.5 per nine) catching up to him after solid showings in his first two seasons. He did show some promise in his June 9 return to the majors, striking out eight while walking one in five innings against the Nationals, but he also surrendered four runs and a homer, a reminder of the flyballing ways that have always made him an awkward fit in the AL East.

 

Dempster is a much more reliable starter, and not just because his 2.31 ERA currently ranks fifth in the NL. Since returning from a three-year stretch as closer in 2008, he has delivered four straight 200-inning seasons while averaging 33 starts per year and striking out 8.2 per nine. His 3.69 ERA as a starter for the Cubs in that span tracks almost perfectly with his 3.74 FIP; while his 3.3 walks per nine is a bit beefy, he’s done a good job of limiting his home runs allowed to 0.9 per nine while pitching half his games in the Windy City, which is no small achievement. He’s a groundball pitcher (though not an extreme one), which would certainly help him navigate Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium, Camden Yards and the other homer-friendly domiciles in which he’d often pitch if he were shipped to Boston.

 

Dempster is making $14 million in the final year of a four-year, $52 million deal; as a 10-and-5 veteran, he has the right to veto any trade, though it appears as if he’s braced for the inevitability – and perhaps imminence – of one given the sight of a recent t?te-?-t?te with Epstein at Wrigley Field on Wednesday. Depending upon how much of his remaining salary the Red Sox are willing to take on – no trivial matter given the team’s $175 million payroll, and their other needs – they may be able to find a fit with the Cubs, particularly given the fact that Epstein oversaw the drafting of virtually any prospect of interest in Boston’s deep system. On the other hand, with no shortage of suitors (the Yankees and Dodgers are said to be the teams most interested in acquiring Dempster), Epstein can shop for a package with a more desirable blue chippers than Boston may be able to offer.

 

In terms of prospects, Dempster would certainly be more affordable to Boston than fellow righty Matt Garza, who as a former Rays hurler has more familiarity with the demands of the AL East. The 28-year-old Garza is on a much less expensive contract ($9.5 million), but he still has one more year of club control, and the Cubs have entertained the possibility of signing him to a longer-term deal — a move that makes less sense as part of a rebuilding effort than it does as a leverage-generating tool in trade talks.

 

As for Epstein, the weekend is sure to carry a spate of questions about whether he made the right move in leaving Chicago for Boston. The Sox are a powerhouse, but one stricken with an incredible amount of misfortune in the injury department over the last few years, creating problems that their lack of roster flexibility has made more difficult to solve; this is a team with $282 million committed to Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett and John Lackey beyond this year. Epstein’s current roster has even deader financial weight in the form of Alfonso Soriano ($36 million remaining after this year), not to mention $22 million they’re already eating in the form of commitments to the since-departed Carlos Zambrano and Marlon Byrd. But in overhauling the Cubs, he has the chance to avoid some of the mistakes he made in Boston — skipping the posting fees, perhaps, and the pressure to make a move simply to keep up with the Yankees. He can take one more step towards a brighter future for the Cubs by dealing Dempster to his old club.

[jung]

I was not sure at the end if the article was trying to make the case for trading Dempster to the Sox as a move that would help Theo more than it would help the Sox but if he can be had without raping the farm system Dempster may just be a great addition for the Sox who really do need help in the rotation. I know Dempster is not pitching in the AL East currently but neither are any of the other options the Sox would have and another SP would without question be the best kind of move the Sox could make as far as a trade is concerned.

 

Garza might be as well but there will likely be so many teams looking for pitching that the price tag for Garza might just be to high.

[Spitball]

I was not sure at the end if the article was trying to make the case for trading Dempster to the Sox as a move that would help Theo more than it would help the Sox but if he can be had without raping the farm system Dempster may just be a great addition for the Sox who really do need help in the rotation. I know Dempster is not pitching in the AL East currently but neither are any of the other options the Sox would have and another SP would without question be the best kind of move the Sox could make as far as a trade is concerned.

 

Garza might be as well but there will likely be so many teams looking for pitching that the price tag for Garza might just be to high.

 

I have been pushing for Dempster for awhile. He is a bulldog and would be much more affordable than Garza.

[SCM33]

I have been pushing for Dempster for awhile. He is a bulldog and would be much more affordable than Garza.

 

Id stay away from Dempster.

[jung]

Is it he injury now that he has some sort of strain I guess Chin Music or some other reason on Dempster?

[Palodios]

Dempster is the Erik Bedard of 2012. Don't touch him. Hell, don't waste prospects on rentals this year.

[a700hitter]

Dempster is the Erik Bedard of 2012. Don't touch him. Hell' date=' don't waste prospects on rentals this year.[/quote']You might be right about that, but we really gave up nothing for Bedard, and that is what we got in return.

[jung]

If they stay away from a guy like Dempster aren't they painting themselves into an impossible position?

 

Tom Werner was on EEI today claiming that the Sox cannot and will not think in terms of a bridge season...blah blah blah. Not saying I believe anything these guys say anymore....However, if they are not active on a Dempster doesn't that force them to look at guys like Garza who will surely cost them more in prospects than Dempster will?

 

I suppose the Sox could rely on Sox fans that think this team can make a legitimate run with the starting pitching that it has......but I am not sure how many Sox fans you could convince of that.

 

On the other hand really dipping into a farm system for this team this year ala' a guy like Garza probably does not make much sense either.

 

So in reneging on Dempster are we saying we need to get a Garza or are we saying that they can make a run without additional SP? Conversely are we saying that the Sox should stay with the current rotation because another SP just does not get the job done anyway?

[Spitball]

Dempster is the Erik Bedard of 2012. Don't touch him. Hell' date=' don't waste prospects on rentals this year.[/quote']

 

How the heck is Dempster Erik Bedard? Please substantiate this statement. Dempster has averaged well over 205 innings the last four seasons and is on his way again. Bedard has never reached 200. Dempster is a bulldog while Bedard has been a poodle his whole career.

[a700hitter]

How the heck is Dempster Erik Bedard? Please substantiate this statement. Dempster has averaged well over 205 innings the last four seasons and is on his way again. Bedard has never reached 200. Dempster is a bulldog while Bedard has been a poodle his whole career.

Good point.

[SCM33]

Is it he injury now that he has some sort of strain I guess Chin Music or some other reason on Dempster?

 

When I think of Dempster, I think about Brad Penny.

 

I think he would get killed in the ALE and I think we would get hosed in a deal. Nobody knows our farm better than Theo, which guarentees we are losing some piece of value.

 

This is what you have to ask yourself.....is Ryan Dempster the difference between .500 and a second wild card spot, and if he is.....is it really worth it?

 

Id rather Morales get a couple of starts to see if he can do it with Bard back in the pen when hes right.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox problem is that it is very difficult for them to be able to upgrade their roster over the guys who will be returning from the DL. The rotation, even with Dice K, should not be terrible. If Morales can continue his magic, he could be a big boon to the rotation. Bailey will be returning to the bullpen. Melancon looks to be straightened out, and maybe Bard can return to being a useful bullpen piece.

 

When Ellsbury, Crawford, and Ross return, the lineup should be potent with Kalish and Middlebrooks etc.

 

However, by the time these guys get back, it may be too late to make a run at the division because the Yankees are putting some distance between themselves and the Red Sox. The Sox need to keep close to the Yankees. If they are 15 games behind at the All Star Break, they can forget the division. They be playing for a 1 game playoff with a wild card berth.

 

They are caught in-between in this waiting game. There is nothing they can do but try to win as many games as possible with this skeleton crew and hope the Yankees hit a skid.

[jung]

Ya' but Morales is not going to be more than another 5 at best. dice is not ready to be more than a 5 or a 4 and we don't know what the heck is going to happen with Beckett.

 

I would have to say that betting on Morales is really very close to packing it in for the season which in reality may make a lotta' sense.

 

I am really having a hard time seeing this team as anything more than one of the wild cards and in fact think they are more likely to be the 2nd WC if anything. While that might blow up somebody's dress...especially a somebody with a $50M budget, it does not do much for me.

 

I might prefer to build my team and not trade the prospects that I think are valuable.

 

An opposing argument might be that Ortiz is having a great year....Agons may finally come around and if we get back our injured guys, and Beckett is OK well maybe we are really one more good pitcher away from making a real run, maybe even a run at the division. I actually think they need Beckett to be OK and able to pitch the rest of the season AND we need another good SP.

 

Maybe it is a good thing that they can see how Beckett is getting on as they make decisions about another arm. If Beckett is in more trouble than a 15 day DL can resolve, that might be it for the season anyway.

 

I simply do not get why folks don't want to come to terms with pitching being at the heart of the matter. All of this focus on the injured everyday players is nothing more than an unwillingness in my view to acknowledge that it is all about the pitching and the Sox don't have enough.

 

The interesting thing about this season is that the "good" ML teams sort of remind me of the good NFL teams the way pro football is played today. Take the starting QB off of any of these Super Bowl contending teams and they are done....finished....out of the running. Take enough starting pitching off of any of the contending WS series or don't give them enough from the start and they are done...finished....out of the running. So I suspect that even teams with more SP than the Sox have now, might just grab one of the guys that will be out on the market just because they add one more round to their gun and take one more round away from the competition. All by way of saying that if the Sox don't make a move for pitching, they will be deciding to take things as they come this year and planning on a serious run some other year. That might be fine. But we should understand that this is what we are talking about.

[Palodios]

You might be right about that' date=' but we really gave up nothing for Bedard, and that is what we got in return.[/quote']

 

I believe Tim Federowicz could have been the catcher of the future for this team. He's had a .850 OPS in AAA, but even if he dwindles to .700 OPs as a hitter in the majors, but all the reports said he had a great arm, and a excellent game calling.

 

As far as Bedard/Dempster-- I'm talking about signing starting pitcher who will be signed immediately after returning from the DL, and loses the performance that sold him in the first place.

[a700hitter]

Ya' but Morales is not going to be more than another 5 at best. dice is not ready to be more than a 5 or a 4 and we don't know what the heck is going to happen with Beckett.

 

I would have to say that betting on Morales is really very close to packing it in for the season which in reality may make a lotta' sense.

 

I am really having a hard time seeing this team as anything more than one of the wild cards and in fact think they are more likely to be the 2nd WC if anything. While that might blow up somebody's dress...especially a somebody with a $50M budget, it does not do much for me.

 

I might prefer to build my team and not trade the prospects that I think are valuable.

 

An opposing argument might be that Ortiz is having a great year....Agons may finally come around and if we get back our injured guys, and Beckett is OK well maybe we are really one more good pitcher away from making a real run, maybe even a run at the division. I actually think they need Beckett to be OK and able to pitch the rest of the season AND we need another good SP.

 

Maybe it is a good thing that they can see how Beckett is getting on as they make decisions about another arm. If Beckett is in more trouble than a 15 day DL can resolve, that might be it for the season anyway.

 

I simply do not get why folks don't want to come to terms with pitching being at the heart of the matter. All of this focus on the injured everyday players is nothing more than an unwillingness in my view to acknowledge that it is all about the pitching and the Sox don't have enough.

 

The interesting thing about this season is that the "good" ML teams sort of remind me of the good NFL teams the way pro football is played today. Take the starting QB off of any of these Super Bowl contending teams and they are done....finished....out of the running. Take enough starting pitching off of any of the contending WS series or don't give them enough from the start and they are done...finished....out of the running. So I suspect that even teams with more SP than the Sox have now, might just grab one of the guys that will be out on the market just because they add one more round to their gun and take one more round away from the competition. All by way of saying that if the Sox don't make a move for pitching, they will be deciding to take things as they come this year and planning on a serious run some other year. That might be fine. But we should understand that this is what we are talking about.

Dempster would definitely improve the pitching if he is healthy, and I agree that it is the pitching that is this team's weakness. Standing pat would be the FO's message that they are packing it in.

[a700hitter]

Red Sox Intensify Efforts To Trade Youkilis

By Steve Adams [June 18 at 8:15pm CST]

 

The Red Sox have intensified their efforts to trade Kevin Youkilis over the past 24-48 hours, according to Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. One high-ranking National League official told the FOX Sports duo that Youkilis is being "shopped everywhere."*The Red Sox are willing to include cash to facilitate the acquisition of better players in return.

 

Rosenthal and Morosi list the Diamondbacks, White Sox, Dodgers, Guardians, and Pirates as teams with interest in Youkilis. They also note that the Reds are not interested, despite Youk's Cincinnati roots.

 

Scouts are expected to be on-hand this weekend to watch Youkilis and the Red Sox take on the Marlins. The 33-year-old corner infielder is in the midst of a 1-for-21 slump and has seen his triple slash line plummet to .215/.301/.345. He'll earn more than $7MM over the remainder of this season, and an acquiring team would have the option of picking up a $13MM option or paying a $1MM buyout.

 

Recently, it was reported that D-backs GM Kevin Towers was "reluctant" to pursue Youkilis.

[example1]

Dempster would definitely improve the pitching if he is healthy' date=' and I agree that it is the pitching that is this team's weakness. Standing pat would be the FO's message that they are packing it in.[/quote']

 

I pretty much agree with you here. They could field a very dangerous team if Ellsbury and Crawford return to form, Middlebrooks plays everyday, etc., but without trying to a) bolster the rotation aggressively and add some players who refocus the culture of the team, they won't go anywhere.

 

For me, it's frustrating because it's not like they can even hold pat and call it a bridge year. Waiting another year or two with Beckett and inconsistent Lester as your 1 and 2 is asking for disaster. Even if it's just Garza and he is the 2 behind Buchholz (assuming he regains his dominance longterm) that would change the culture. The team needs a culture change more than anything.

[redsoxfan3]

It is interesting to see that the Youk talks are heating up. We all knew that the FO would try to trade him, but I thought it was surprising a week or two ago when BC shot down those rumors that the FO was trying to trade him. Now BC had no comment on the issue, so that leads me to believe the FO will be doing everything in their power to trade him. That is the smart thing. Even if we don't get much in return, I think it is the best option for the team.

[FredLynn]

It is interesting to see that the Youk talks are heating up. We all knew that the FO would try to trade him' date=' but I thought it was surprising a week or two ago when BC shot down those rumors that the FO was trying to trade him. Now BC had no comment on the issue, so that leads me to believe the FO will be doing everything in their power to trade him. That is the smart thing. Even if we don't get much in return, I think it is the best option for the team.[/quote']

 

Not very long ago at all Cherington was quoted as saying that, essentially, the Youkilis trade talks were pretty quiet, that they "were not fielding calls" about him. Now its a "no comment". That probably means that something is going to happen sooner rather than later. I hope Youkilis can find his swing again on another club. He contributed a lot when he was productive here.

[jung]

Maybe Youk is the kind of player that needs to get on the other side of all this trade talk so that he feels settled and wanted and can go out and play his best. It is hard for me to believe that Youk is completely shot. However I do think he might well be completely shot here.

[redsoxfan3]

Not very long ago at all Cherington was quoted as saying that' date=' essentially, the Youkilis trade talks were pretty quiet, that they "were not fielding calls" about him. Now its a "no comment". That probably means that something is going to happen sooner rather than later. I hope Youkilis can find his swing again on another club. He contributed a lot when he was productive here.[/quote']

 

I think the same thing. I believe he will be traded fairly soon if there is someone that actually does want him. I have never really like Youk, but I do respect him and appreciate the fact that he was a vital part of this team over the past few years. It is unfortunate that he is struggling and is plagued with all of these injuries, but going to a new team is probably the best for this team and for him.

 

Maybe Youk is the kind of player that needs to get on the other side of all this trade talk so that he feels settled and wanted and can go out and play his best. It is hard for me to believe that Youk is completely shot. However I do think he might well be completely shot here.

 

The best thing to do is trade him. Middlebrooks has more of a future than Youk. I am not sure if he is completely shot, but he needs a change. He needs to get out of Boston.

[SoxSport]

I would sit AdGon and play Youks at 1B. If he's going to hit, he will hit there--he's more at home at 1B.

3B is a higher pressure position for a guy 33. They aren't going to sit Ortiz at DH, so the logical thing is to sit AdGon, who looks like he needs a vacation.

[FredLynn]

By the way, if Youkilis is traded, who is the backup 1B to Agon? Punto? Maybe I am missing someone...

[jung]

It should be clear by now that Ortiz can play 1st at least well enough in a pinch to back up AGons....or they bring somebody up again.

[redsoxfan3]

By the way' date=' if Youkilis is traded, who is the backup 1B to Agon? Punto? Maybe I am missing someone...[/quote']

 

We have options. If Gonzalez gets hurt for some odd reason and we need to find a replacement that night, Ortiz or Punto would likely step in for the night. The decision to be made after that would be to determine if they want to play Ortiz at 1B on a regular basis. That decision would probably be a no and they would want him to continue to be just a DH. In AAA, we have both Anderson and Gomez who can play 1B. Gomez would more than likely get the promotion out of the two. He is hitting .291 with 15 HR's, 46 RBI's, and has an OPS of .940.

[SoxFanForsyth]

By the way' date=' if Youkilis is traded, who is the backup 1B to Agon? Punto? Maybe I am missing someone...[/quote']

 

Lars (14 Doubles, 9 HR, .866 OPS), Lavarnway (13 Doubles, 7 HR, .844 OPS, 1.141 OPS in June), and Mauro Gomez (20 Doubles, 15 HR, .940 OPS in AAA) are all guys who can play 1B.

[Spitball]

By the way' date=' if Youkilis is traded, who is the backup 1B to Agon? Punto? Maybe I am missing someone...[/quote']

 

I would think Ortiz would obviously be the backup at first.