The Venting Thread

[BornToRun]

I think it might be a good idea to have a thread where we can all just sound off on how pissed we are at what's happened over the past month. Just a general "f*** this s***" thread.

 

I was pretty bummed out and disappointed when we missed the playoffs but I didn't really get angry until the divisional series started. That's when I realized we aren't a part of it and it just pisses me off. When Longoria hit a homer to pull within 1 of Texas I just looked at my dad who I was watching with and said, "That should be us. That should be f***ing us."

 

This team had it in them to go all the way, the talent was there and we were in position to do it. But now I have to hear about the collapse and how great of a story the f***ing Cinderella Rays are and all that s***. Hell, the Yankees weren't supposed to be that good this year, they were desperate and dumpster diving for trash like Garcia and Colon. Fast Forward: Buch's hurt, Lackey's melted down, Dice-K's done both and those f***ing has-beens have suddenly turned into mid 3 ERA pitchers out of nowhere. It's infuriating to watch those pricks in New York root on that team full of douches as they get to play for a title and we're sitting here drowning our sorrows and talking about the loss of our manager who's the greatest in team history.

 

What the f*** happened? The rest of the MLB can kiss my ass, 2012 is our year. This s*** isn't happening again. I'm not gonna have to swallow my pride and take s*** from other fans after we fall apart, not again.

[BossSox]

f*** all of this nonsensical ******** with the Red Sox!!!

There we go.

[BornToRun]

f*** all of this nonsensical ******** with the Red Sox!!!

There we go.

 

It's rough. People are going nuts and they have reason to but some of the stuff I'm reading is out there even for my tastes. We'll all get over it and start to look at things a bit more rationally but for now, everyone is just f***ing pissed.

[3rdManOut]

I too am beyond pissed right now at how this all ended. I really got the feeling like our players didnt even play like they cared anymore. Or they just took everything for granted. Seems like no one really cares to play because they love baseball. The FO better do something about this for next season and they better find a manager that can get through to our players. One of the reasons Im really angry is because I had this vision of our players really respecting eachother in the club house and for the game in general. After all the reports about what was happening in the club house came out, there was a sense of shame for me that OUR players would act like that, especially towards the manager. But then again maybe I was too nieve to think otherwise. I guess what Im trying to say is that because of the reports bringing my thoughts to a scary reality, I have lost alot of respect this season for the "Olde Towne Team".

 

I am a RED SOX fan and I strongly approve this thread!!!!

[FredLynn]

I think it might be a good idea to have a thread where we can all just sound off on how pissed we are at what's happened over the past month. Just a general "f*** this s***" thread.

 

I was pretty bummed out and disappointed when we missed the playoffs but I didn't really get angry until the divisional series started. That's when I realized we aren't a part of it and it just pisses me off. When Longoria hit a homer to pull within 1 of Texas I just looked at my dad who I was watching with and said, "That should be us. That should be f***ing us."

 

This team had it in them to go all the way, the talent was there and we were in position to do it. But now I have to hear about the collapse and how great of a story the f***ing Cinderella Rays are and all that s***. Hell, the Yankees weren't supposed to be that good this year, they were desperate and dumpster diving for trash like Garcia and Colon. Fast Forward: Buch's hurt, Lackey's melted down, Dice-K's done both and those f***ing has-beens have suddenly turned into mid 3 ERA pitchers out of nowhere. It's infuriating to watch those pricks in New York root on that team full of douches as they get to play for a title and we're sitting here drowning our sorrows and talking about the loss of our manager who's the greatest in team history.

 

What the f*** happened? The rest of the MLB can kiss my ass, 2012 is our year. This s*** isn't happening again. I'm not gonna have to swallow my pride and take s*** from other fans after we fall apart, not again.

 

Umm...yes this WILL happen again in 2012 if Epstein remains in his job. In fact, it will happen again even if he leaves, but at least then healing can take place. It will take years to fix the mess he put this franchise in. Look at all the long term contracts and money tied up in losers that he has saddled us with over the years: Lackey, Crawford, Cameron, Matsusaka....Jenks-all recently. The list gets much longer if you look back a few years: Lugo, Renteria, Clement, Byun-Hyung Kim etc etc. No manager could have won a ring with the dregs he was given by this GM this year. "It" is going to happen EVERY year until Epstein is fired.

[3rdManOut]

Umm...yes this WILL happen again in 2012 if Epstein remains in his job. In fact' date=' it will happen again even if he leaves, but at least then healing can take place. It will take years to fix the mess he put this franchise in. Look at all the long term contracts and money tied up in losers that he has saddled us with over the years: Lackey, Crawford, Cameron, Matsusaka....Jenks-all recently. The list gets much longer if you look back a few years: Lugo, Renteria, Clement, Byun-Hyung Kim etc etc. No manager could have won a ring with the dregs he was given by this GM this year. "It" is going to happen EVERY year until Epstein is fired.[/quote']

 

I agree with your list of players that was a result of crazy contracts except for maybe Clement? I cant remember too much of what his contract was but I do seem to remember that the start of his downfall was because he got hit with a ball right after his pitch. I forget which game it was but I think after that he was never really the same. If that is true then I cant blame him for that. However please tell me if Im wrong as well.

[3rdManOut]

Oh but also getting to my real point, before he got hit Matt Clement, seemed to be on top of his game most of the time. Again correct me if Im wrong on this. I would give stats but Im not too good on those things.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Umm...yes this WILL happen again in 2012 if Epstein remains in his job. In fact' date=' it will happen again even if he leaves, but at least then healing can take place. It will take years to fix the mess he put this franchise in. Look at all the long term contracts and money tied up in losers that he has saddled us with over the years: Lackey, Crawford, Cameron, Matsusaka....Jenks-all recently. The list gets much longer if you look back a few years: Lugo, Renteria, Clement, Byun-Hyung Kim etc etc. No manager could have won a ring with the dregs he was given by this GM this year. "It" is going to happen EVERY year until Epstein is fired.[/quote']

 

I'm sorry, what?!?

 

You're telling me that this team, who on 8/27 was on a 100 win pace, is going to miss the post season next year? You do realize that it took an epic, unprecedented collapse for this team to miss the post season this year.

 

But you think that this team is going to recreate that, year after year? Come on man. I understand this is the venting thread, but at least be the slightest bit rational.

 

Lackey? Sure. He blows. DiceK won't pitch next season. Pardon me for wanting to give Crawford more than 1 of his 7 years to prove himself. Who knows with Jenks. He was really, really good at the beginning of the season, then fell out of his mechanics and got hurt. He could easily be a 3.2-3.3 ERA 7th inning set up guy next year, and that would be just fine.

 

Our offense scored the most runs in the entire MLB last season, and that was with Varitek playing quite a few games. Next season, we'll have Lavarnway back there rather than Varitek, and you can be sure that Lavarnway will be a better hitter than Tek, so that improves our offense, and defense because Lavarnway can throw runners out.

 

Our pitching? Yeah. It blew. Bad. But we'll have Buchholz back. Bard will almost certainly be in the rotation as our 4th or 5th man, with Aceves picking up the 8th inning duties.

 

Lester

Buchholz

Beckett

Bard

Lackey

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Crawford

Lavarnway/Salty

Kalish

Scutaro

 

And that's not to mention the fact that this team is going to get another SP in the trade market, so you can remove Lackey from the rotation, throw him in the pen as a long-man.

 

To say that the lineup and rotation that we'll have in 2012 is not World Series worthy is ridiculous. We need to add some SP depth.

 

Maybe Doubront comes back healthier than he did last year, and will add some depth. He has a lot of promise.

Maybe Aceves gets stretched out and can take a few spot starts during the season.

Maybe Alex Wilson steps up next season and gives the club a boost.

Maybe Junichi Tazawa does the same thing.

 

Go out and sign a guy like Armando Galarraga, Chein-Ming Wang, Brandon Webb, Dontrelle Willis, Chris Young. Guys that will take an AAA deal (although Willis may not), but that will give you depth.

 

That's all this club needs. One extra SP for the rotation, and then some rotation depth as well.

[FredLynn]

I agree with your list of players that was a result of crazy contracts except for maybe Clement? I cant remember too much of what his contract was but I do seem to remember that the start of his downfall was because he got hit with a ball right after his pitch. I forget which game it was but I think after that he was never really the same. If that is true then I cant blame him for that. However please tell me if Im wrong as well.

 

In fairness, Clement did get hit in the head and was never the same. Still, the list of his failures is extensive. Here's an article about it:

 

 

The Epstein 11:

 

 

 

2003: Keith Foulke, three years/$20.5 million. (Stabilized the closer position. Closed out 2004 World Series.)

 

 

 

2004: Edgar Renteria, four years/$40 million. (Bought out after one dismal season for an additional $12 million. Renteria played in Boston for one year for $22 million.)

 

 

 

2005: Julio Lugo, four years/$36 million. (Hit .251 in three seasons. Part of the revolving door for Red Sox shortstops since Epstein traded Nomar Garciaparra.)

 

 

 

2005: Matt Clement, three years/$25 million. (An 18-11 record with a 5.09 ERA in two seasons. One All-Star Game.)

 

 

 

2006: Coco Crisp, three years/$15.5 million (Was put in the unfortunate position of replacing Damon, who had 197 hits in his final year in Boston. Ultimately replaced by the emerging Ellsbury.)

 

 

 

2007: Daisuke Matsuzaka, six years/$52 million, plus a $52 million posting fee that did not count against payroll. (Won 2007 World Series. A .620 career winning percentage. Hasn't pitched 170 innings in a season since debuting in 2007. Has averaged five wins over the last three seasons.)

 

 

 

2007: JD Drew, five years/$70 million. (Average season in Boston: 121 games, .264 average, 16 HR, 57 RBI.)

 

 

 

2010: John Lackey, five years,/$82.5 million. (A 26-23 record, 5.26 ERA, 375 IP, 436 hits so far.)

 

 

 

2010: Mike Cameron, two years/$15.5 million. (A .219 average in 81 games over two seasons. Traded in July of this year. The team moved Ellsbury out of center field upon acquiring Cameron.)

 

 

 

2010: Adrian Beltre, one year/$10 million. (.321 AVG, 49 2B, 28 HR, 102 RBI, All-Star.)

 

 

 

2011: Carl Crawford, seven years/$142 million. (Dismal first season in Boston, but too early to pass judgment.)

 

 

 

It might appear at first glance that Ortiz, Epstein's biggest player acquisition score, is conspicuously missing from that list. Ortiz certainly became a star in Boston, but he was not brought there to be one. In December 2002 at the Opryland Hotel in Nashville, Tenn., during Epstein's first winter meetings as GM of the Red Sox, he jousted with the A's Beane over the true object of their affection, Arizona slugger Erubiel Durazo. Durazo went to Oakland and Epstein settled for Jeremy Giambi. When spring training broke in 2003, Ortiz was fourth on the depth chart, behind Giambi, Shea Hillenbrand and Kevin Millar.

 

 

Epstein might not be responsible for total authorship of every one of those deals. Ownership has its predilections, and general managers often make deals of which they disapprove. But in Epstein's nine years, those 11 major signings totaled $543.5 million; during the same period, the Tampa Bay Rays' entire payroll amounted to $315.8 million on 225 players.

 

 

 

Of those 11, only one, perhaps two -- Foulke and Beltre -- can be considered unqualified successes. The 2003 Red Sox introduced then abandoned a disastrous Bill James concept called the "closer-by-committee," the thought being that a real save situation might not occur in the ninth inning, but rather in, say, the seventh. That winter, Epstein signed Foulke, and Boston won the World Series a year later.

 

Beane is sometimes maligned for being lionized despite never winning an ALCS game (never mind advancing to the World Series), but there is no question he revolutionized the front-office game -- who gets jobs, how those jobs are done and what statistical and cultural values are important -- and transformed the position of general manager from anonymous to glamorous.

 

 

 

But if the position is now worthy of Hollywood and big money and credit for a team's architecture, it is only appropriate that accountability be part of the equation. If the man running the game from the dugout is now considered a "mid-level manager," according to the Moneyball doctrine founded by Sandy Alderson and perfected by Beane and by Epstein, maybe he isn't the one whose bags should be packed when the plan fails.

[FredLynn]

Forsythe, let me clarify: I do think that we have the players to MAKE the playoffs. What I was referring to is being a factor once we get in. A team can bash its way into the postseason, but you must have good to excellent pitching to hope to contend for a ring. Lets look at who we have:

Beckett/Lester: serviceable #2-3 SPs, but certainly not aces

Buchholtz: one great year, thats it. An X factor.

Lackey: the worst SP in baseball and we are stuck with him

Wakefield: he will be back if Epstein remains. Part of "the good 'ol boy network"

 

Bard will likely become our closer when Papelbon leaves, and its likely, IMO, that he will take the best deal which probably won't be offered by us.

Aceves: could start. Thats really where he belongs, but his results as a SP have not been nearly as good as as a reliever

Albers: are you kidding me? Reverted to his career norms late in the year

Wheeler: likely gone at $3M/y

Jenks: yup, he's ours. Signed for another year.

Morales: inconsistent

Atchison: up and down from Pawtucket. Good mop up guy, but not good for much else

DiceK: gone until August at least. Unlikely to pitch again for the team, fortunately

Bowden, Tazawa, Doubront etc: have proven nothing so far.

 

I think thats a fair assessment. Remember: we finish NINTH in the AL in overall ERA. While its possible that some guys could have career years, I am not counting on it.

As far as the offense goes, we will score a lot of runs, even with Crawford performing poorly, and even with Gonzalez fattening up his statistics against lower tier clubs (except the Rangers) and choking against the Rays and Yankees and Tigers. As I said, we can bash our way into the playoffs, perhaps, but that will be worth nothing if our pitching staff cannot stop the other guys from scoring. That WILL NOT HAPPEN with the current pitching staff. Period.

[Palodios]

Forsythe, let me clarify: I do think that we have the players to MAKE the playoffs. What I was referring to is being a factor once we get in. A team can bash its way into the postseason, but you must have good to excellent pitching to hope to contend for a ring. Lets look at who we have:

Beckett/Lester: serviceable #2-3 SPs, but certainly not aces

 

Woah woah woah. Lester not an ace? Find me 32 pitchers who have been more consistent over the last five years. Trust me, you'll only find 5-6 that are even in the conversation, nevermind BETTER than him, and only one of them pitches in the AL East.

[FredLynn]

Woah woah woah. Lester not an ace? Find me 32 pitchers who have been more consistent over the last five years. Trust me' date=' you'll only find 5-6 that are even in the conversation, nevermind BETTER than him, and only one of them pitches in the AL East.[/quote']

 

Real aces pitch well and play well when their team needs a clutch performance. Going through the records of all the the pitchers in the league is an endeavor I am not interested in doing, but feel free to do it if you like. When is the last time Lester performed in the clutch? How did he do in September this year? Same with Beckett. Neither is an ace.

John Lester finished 45th in ERA this year in MLB. When I refer to an ace, I am not referring to the best SP on a team, because even that person cannot be viewed as a true ace if they cannot come through consistently when they are needed or maintain a consistently spectacular ERA. Guys like Hernandez, Verlander, Wainwrite, Carpenter, Lincecum, Halladay, Lee: those guys are aces. Lester is a functional #1 SP on a team that finished ninth in overall ERA. Good, but not an ace.

[3rdManOut]

How the hell did the FO justify giving Lackey 82.5 million?!!!!

When he was with the Angeles before we got him, was he thier ace? I remember hearing about getting him when we did and even before he showed up to Boston there was already questions concerning his pitching style at Fenway.

[3rdManOut]

Oh and by the way Wakefield SHOULD go. If he decided that he has already played his last season

(2011), then I will have no problem with that. He will have gone out with respect. Im not sure what would happen if they keep him. He is not very consistent (unfortunatley). Im not sure why they have kept him in the last few years.

[Palodios]

Real aces pitch well and play well when their team needs a clutch performance. Going through the records of all the the pitchers in the league is an endeavor I am not interested in doing, but feel free to do it if you like. When is the last time Lester performed in the clutch? How did he do in September this year? Same with Beckett. Neither is an ace.

John Lester finished 45th in ERA this year in MLB. When I refer to an ace, I am not referring to the best SP on a team, because even that person cannot be viewed as a true ace if they cannot come through consistently when they are needed or maintain a consistently spectacular ERA. Guys like Hernandez, Verlander, Wainwrite, Carpenter, Lincecum, Halladay, Lee: those guys are aces. Lester is a functional #1 SP on a team that finished ninth in overall ERA. Good, but not an ace.

 

Read what I posted above. I said there are 5-6 guys in the league that are even in the conversation, and you named every single one that I had in mind. You must have a short memory if you think that Lester is not a clutch pitcher.

 

Lester clinched the WS in 2007, and was absolutely lights out against the Angels in 2008. He also broke his April curse this year, in a year when they absolutely needed him to. He went 3-1 in April. THIS April. How can you call that unclutch? He had one truly terrible start this September, and when the Red Sox absolulely needed him to pitch well, on September 28th, the last game of the year, he only gave up two runs.

[SoxSport]

nice list.

Now, get a similar list of the Yankee big money failures.

I think you'll find a striking similarity. Except maybe bigger.

 

The money game doesn't work very well. Why? Because of guaranteed contracts.

You take away a guy's incentive to earn a paycheck, and guess what? his performance drops.

That's human nature, but that's what the owners agreed to, and they're stuck with it.

Are there exceptions? You bet your Beltre, there are.

 

Epstein is guilty of trying to compete with the Yankees dollar-wise.

That's the curse of being in the same division with them.

 

The way I see it, the best incentive for him to go to the Cubs is he gets out of the Yankee Division.

[a700hitter]

Read what I posted above. I said there are 5-6 guys in the league that are even in the conversation, and you named every single one that I had in mind. You must have a short memory if you think that Lester is not a clutch pitcher.

 

Lester clinched the WS in 2007, and was absolutely lights out against the Angels in 2008. He also broke his April curse this year, in a year when they absolutely needed him to. He went 3-1 in April. THIS April. How can you call that unclutch? He had one truly terrible start this September, and when the Red Sox absolulely needed him to pitch well, on September 28th, the last game of the year, he only gave up two runs.

Clinching a World Series with 5 innings of work when your team is up 3 games to none doesn't make the cut as clutch. He lost the deciding 7th game against the Rays in 2008. Oh, I forgot. He was outpitched. No, he lost.

[Palodios]

Clinching a World Series with 5 innings of work when your team is up 3 games to none doesn't make the cut as clutch. He lost the deciding 7th game against the Rays in 2008. Oh' date=' I forgot. He was outpitched. No, he lost.[/quote']

 

Jon Lester has a 2.57 career ERA in the playoffs.

 

He went 3-1 this April. Jon Lester, of 6.00+ ERA April infamy, fought his way through a month when the team needed a stopper, and he put up a 2.54 ERA.

 

Seriously, if you're complaining about Jon Lester, you're completely hopeless. Pedro Martinez is not walking through that door, so move on.

[a700hitter]

Jon Lester has a 2.57 career ERA in the playoffs.

 

He went 3-1 this April. Jon Lester, of 6.00+ ERA April infamy, fought his way through a month when the team needed a stopper, and he put up a 2.54 ERA.

 

Seriously, if you're complaining about Jon Lester, you're completely hopeless. Pedro Martinez is not walking through that door, so move on.

I'm not complaining about Lester. He is a very good starter- a very valuable commodity, but your standards for clutch are obviously lower than mine.

[Palodios]

I'm not complaining about Lester. He is a very good starter- a very valuable commodity' date=' but your standards for clutch are obviously lower than mine.[/quote']

 

I guess I don't know what more you could ask for. Since he earned "Ace" status, he's only pitched one playoff game, and the Red Sox were shutout, so it really didn't matter how well he pitched.

[FredLynn]

Read what I posted above. I said there are 5-6 guys in the league that are even in the conversation, and you named every single one that I had in mind. You must have a short memory if you think that Lester is not a clutch pitcher.

 

Lester clinched the WS in 2007, and was absolutely lights out against the Angels in 2008. He also broke his April curse this year, in a year when they absolutely needed him to. He went 3-1 in April. THIS April. How can you call that unclutch? He had one truly terrible start this September, and when the Red Sox absolulely needed him to pitch well, on September 28th, the last game of the year, he only gave up two runs.

 

I don't care now what he did in 2007 or 2008. I care what he did THIS year. Thats the nature of the game. You know that. Its very much a "what have you done for me lately" game.

More names, with the above caveat: Sabathia, Hamels, Weaver, Kershaw, Kennedy, Shields, and even Beckett are all better than Lester this year. Lester was good-35th in ERA in baseball. Maybe we are discussing a difference in definitions. A SP can be the best on his team and still not be a true ace. I would say that even on our team this year Lester was not the ace; Beckett was, despite his September. I do not agree that Lester excelled last year. Sorry.

[Palodios]

I don't care now what he did in 2007 or 2008. I care what he did THIS year. Thats the nature of the game. You know that. Its very much a "what have you done for me lately" game.

 

I explicitly brought up April, and his last September start. Do those not illustrate his ability?

[FredLynn]

Jon Lester has a 2.57 career ERA in the playoffs.

 

He went 3-1 this April. Jon Lester, of 6.00+ ERA April infamy, fought his way through a month when the team needed a stopper, and he put up a 2.54 ERA.

 

Seriously, if you're complaining about Jon Lester, you're completely hopeless. Pedro Martinez is not walking through that door, so move on.

 

Lets get back to THIS year, the ONLY year that matters. In September, when his team really needed him, his ERA was 5.40 with a record of 1-5. Some ace. In fact, in Aug and Sept combined his ERA was over 4.

Aces lead the team; they are at their best when the team needs them the most. Lester has never been a consistent ace. Beckett has. The others on my list have too. Not Lester. Maybe some day.

[FredLynn]

I explicitly brought up April' date=' and his last September start. Do those not illustrate his ability?[/quote']

 

April is not when his team needed him the most this year. That would be in September when the team was desperately trying to reach the playoffs. Lester let them down.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Palodios is making valid points and they're being ignored as if he's talking crazy.

[FredLynn]

Palodios is making valid points and they're being ignored as if he's talking crazy.

 

Not agreeing with someone is not the same as ignoring them. His opinion certainly has validity; I just don't agree with him. If he were being ignored there would be no dialogue.

[jung]

I can see being disappointed in Lester but the general collapse of the Starting Staff is so glaring in both its depth and its scope that I really do wonder if there was something larger at play here than any individual pitcher's record or performance. General conditioning has been tossed about regarding the whole team and certainly starting pitching has not escaped that particular concern. Aside from conditioning are there things they should have been doing that would have kept them sharper? Nobody has given Young high marks deservedly so I think.

 

Lackey's performance was spectacularly bad. It might not have been as telling if we were not running him out there every 4th day. But none of the rest distinguished themselves either. Buckholtz got injured but I am not sure he was pitching up to par even before that. Beckett actually pitched pretty well when you consider that he has entered the transitional part of his career.

 

He needs a new out pitch. I have not done the calculation but if you took his worst inning out of every game he could have had spectacular stats I would think. Now you can say that every pitcher would have better stats if you took his worst inning out of each game but Beckett had many very good starts where that one inning was not just marginally worse but was really a blow up inning with an avalanche of runs. He just could not get out of those single nightmare innings and he really did not appear to have a way out of them.

[Palodios]

Lets get back to THIS year, the ONLY year that matters. In September, when his team really needed him, his ERA was 5.40 with a record of 1-5. Some ace. In fact, in Aug and Sept combined his ERA was over 4.

Aces lead the team; they are at their best when the team needs them the most. Lester has never been a consistent ace. Beckett has. The others on my list have too. Not Lester. Maybe some day.

 

That 5.40 is dependent solely on one bad start. He pitched his team to a point where they were 9 games up on the wild card. You can't blame him for taking it easy while getting ready for the playoffs-- which was what he was working towards, not a pile of starts in September that seemed meaningless at the time.

 

Every "ace" goes through bad streaks as well. Cliff Lee is 0-3 in his last three playoff starts. Sabathia has had some absolutely terrible starts. Felix Hernandez has NEVER pitched in a high leverage situation so if we're talking about clutch, he shouldn't even be in the conversation. Halladay and Lincecum made their first playoff appearances last year, so its not exactly like its a huge sample size for them either. Wainright has pitched exactly one game as a starter in the playoffs.

 

Face it. Lester had one s***** start. You can't say he's a bad clutch performer based on just that. Look at your list. The majority of them have either small sample sizes, or have pitched only in the NL.

 

Career postseason pitching stats:

Lincecum(1 season) 2.43 ERA

Cliff Lee (3 seasons ) 2.52 ERA

Lester (3 seasons) 2.57 ERA

Halladay (2 seasons) 2.70 ERA

Beckett (4 seasons) 3.07 ERA

Carpenter (4 season) 3.38 ERA

Sabathia (5 seasons) 4.78 ERA

Wainight(1 game as starter) 1.12

Felix (0 seasons) ----

[Palodios]

April is not when his team needed him the most this year. That would be in September when the team was desperately trying to reach the playoffs. Lester let them down.

 

Being an ace is about being a stopper when your team is in freefall. That's exactly what he did in April. How was he supposed to know at the beginning of September that his team was going to completely collapse around him?

[FredLynn]

That 5.40 is dependent solely on one bad start. He pitched his team to a point where they were 9 games up on the wild card. You can't blame him for taking it easy while getting ready for the playoffs-- which was what he was working towards, not a pile of starts in September that seemed meaningless at the time.

 

Every "ace" goes through bad streaks as well. Cliff Lee is 0-3 in his last three playoff starts. Sabathia has had some absolutely terrible starts. Felix Hernandez has NEVER pitched in a high leverage situation so if we're talking about clutch, he shouldn't even be in the conversation. Halladay and Lincecum made their first playoff appearances last year, so its not exactly like its a huge sample size for them either. Wainright has pitched exactly one game as a starter in the playoffs.

 

Face it. Lester had one s***** start. You can't say he's a bad clutch performer based on just that. Look at your list. The majority of them have either small sample sizes, or have pitched only in the NL.

 

Career postseason pitching stats:

Lincecum(1 season) 2.43 ERA

Cliff Lee (3 seasons ) 2.52 ERA

Lester (3 seasons) 2.57 ERA

Halladay (2 seasons) 2.70 ERA

Beckett (4 seasons) 3.07 ERA

Carpenter (4 season) 3.38 ERA

Sabathia (5 seasons) 4.78 ERA

Wainight(1 game as starter) 1.12

Felix (0 seasons) ----

 

Lets look at what Lester did in September more closely. He had six starts and lasted more than six innings twice when he lasted seven innings each time. In half of his starts he last 5, 4, and 2.2 innings. Against the Yankees and the Rays he was 0 and 4 in September. He surrendered at least four runs in half his start. He won just once in September and lost five times. His ERA was over 5.

Thats not the profile of an ace on my team.