Let the Jose Reyes Sweepstakes Begin

[a700hitter]

a700 - article's about HanRam.

I have really high hopes for Lavarnaway. Even if he turns into a below-average catcher, if he keeps hitting the way he is he could be a valuable piece going forward. And I think his trade value is lower than his actual talent.

My bad. I guess the thread has digressed.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Because he makes a whopping $5M less? Because he's not going to want to get paid like a superstar? Could you try making a little sense here?

 

1. He's not as injury prone.

2. He's not in a walk year.

3. He's got 3 years left on his contract.

[Palodios]

Because he makes a whopping $5M less? Because he's not going to want to get paid like a superstar? Could you try making a little sense here?

 

3.5 years >> 7 years

[Will617]

We don't have the $$$ (or desire to spend it, maybe) to sign Reyes to a long term contract. The guy wants Carl Crawford money, and he'll probably get it.

 

HanRam makes more sense.

 

The Sox have $126 mil on the books next year. They need a 5th starter, DH, RF, closer and money for arb raises/bullpen. If they fill out the 5th starter and RF positions internally (Doubront and Kalish), and spend about $10 million on the DH spot, they still have about $30+ million to play with, which should be plenty to resign Reyes.

If they do trade for Reyes, I don't think there is any way they don't extend him.

[Dojji]

1. He's not as injury prone.

2. He's not in a walk year.

3. He's got 3 years left on his contract.

Thank you for amply demonstrating why Hanley is A: less likely to be available and B: likely to cost far more in talent.

[Palodios]

Thank you for amply demonstrating why Hanley is A: less likely to be available and B: likely to cost far more in talent.

 

Hanley is available and probably cheaper because

 

1) he's hitting like crap, and in decline

2) he's a cancer to the clubhouse

3) he costs significantly more than Reyes money-wise

4) he won't last at SS

5) he won't net his team two top picks at the end of the year

[Dojji]

And we want this guy because...

 

Look, if we want a guy who hits to a .600 OPS we'll stick with Scutaro. This is about an over the top piece. Not a reclamation deal.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And we want this guy because...

 

Look, if we want a guy who hits to a .600 OPS we'll stick with Scutaro. This is about an over the top piece. Not a reclamation deal.

 

Wait. You're calling Hanley Ramirez "a .600 OPS guy"???

 

You do realize this is a perennial .300 hitter with an .880-900 OPS, 25 HR, 80 RBI, and 40 SB. From your shortstop.

 

Don't be a clown man. He's having a down year, which is perfect when you trade for him.

[Dojji]

You can't just pretend these last couple months came out of nowhere. They happened.

[Palodios]

And we want this guy because...

 

I don't.

[Spitball]

You can't just pretend these last couple months came out of nowhere. They happened.

 

I would have no problem with the Sox getting Ramirez...but not to play shortstop. Buster Olney is reporting that people with the Marlins feel he has grown too big to play shortstop. Big or just right, he never has been a good shortstop, but I would think he would make an intriguing right fielder. He has a good arm, and would combine with Ellsbury and Crawford to make one of the fastest outfields of all-time.

 

With Ramirez in right, the Sox could put Iglesias at shortstop next year and afford whatever offense he can produce.

[SoxFanForsyth]

You can't just pretend these last couple months came out of nowhere. They happened.

 

So Crawford is a .245 hitter, Pedey is a .260 hitter, Youk is a .255 hitter, Lester is a 3.80 ERA guy?

[Palodios]

Beltran will cost 20 million as a OF, and is natural there. He's having a great season and will cost little to no prospects.

 

Hanley will cost 15 million, and is not natural to the OF. He's having a crummy season, and his 2010 OBP and OPS are around the same as Beltran's 2011. He'll cost more in the long haul, and will destroy the farm system. He's a terror in the clubhouse.

 

Personally, if we're looking at an expensive outfielder, I'd take Beltran.

 

Edit: @Spitball

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm looking at SS, moving to 3B in 1-2 years.

[Spitball]

Beltran will cost 20 million as a OF, and is natural there. He's having a great season and will cost little to no prospects.

 

Hanley will cost 15 million, and is not natural to the OF. He's having a crummy season, and his 2010 OBP and OPS are around the same as Beltran's 2011. He'll cost more in the long haul, and will destroy the farm system. He's a terror in the clubhouse.

 

Personally, if we're looking at an expensive outfielder, I'd take Beltran.

 

Edit: @Spitball

 

I don't agree with your logic that Reyes and Beltran will not cost a wealth of prospects. There will be teams competing for these guys and major league baseball has shown in the past that it will step in to preserve the best interest of the game and not let stars simply be sold off. MLB must approve all trades.

 

That said, I am not advocating the acquisition of Ramirez. I wouldn't mind him as a Red Sox if he were to be placed in right field and nowhere near shortstop. And, I don't buy the "natural outfielder" argument. Some of the greatest defensive outfielders were trained as infielders. Mickey Mantle, Juan Beniquez, Tommy Harper, Eric Davis, Robin Yount, and many others became excellent outfielders after being developed as infielders.

[a700hitter]

I don't agree with your logic that Reyes and Beltran will not cost a wealth of prospects. There will be teams competing for these guys and major league baseball has shown in the past that it will step in to preserve the best interest of the game and not let stars simply be sold off. MLB must approve all trades.

 

That said, I am not advocating the acquisition of Ramirez. I wouldn't mind him as a Red Sox if he were to be placed in right field and nowhere near shortstop. And, I don't buy the "natural outfielder" argument. Some of the greatest defensive outfielders were trained as infielders. Mickey Mantle, Juan Beniquez, Tommy Harper, Eric Davis, Robin Yount, and many others became excellent outfielders after being developed as infielders.

Juan Beniquez? I thought you might have mentioned a more accomplished OFer like Yaz.

[Spitball]

Juan Beniquez? I thought you might have mentioned a more accomplished OFer like Yaz.

 

Juan Beniquez was an excellent outfielder. He won a Gold Glove in 1977 and hung on as a defensive specialist after his bat slowed.

[a700hitter]

Juan Beniquez was an excellent outfielder. He won a Gold Glove in 1977 and hung on as a defensive specialist after his bat slowed.

Yaz won 7 Gold Gloves.

[Palodios]

I don't agree with your logic that Reyes and Beltran will not cost a wealth of prospects. There will be teams competing for these guys and major league baseball has shown in the past that it will step in to preserve the best interest of the game and not let stars simply be sold off. MLB must approve all trades.

 

That said, I am not advocating the acquisition of Ramirez. I wouldn't mind him as a Red Sox if he were to be placed in right field and nowhere near shortstop. And, I don't buy the "natural outfielder" argument. Some of the greatest defensive outfielders were trained as infielders. Mickey Mantle, Juan Beniquez, Tommy Harper, Eric Davis, Robin Yount, and many others became excellent outfielders after being developed as infielders.

 

Reyes will cost a wealth of prospects. That is a no-brainer, but I'm talking about Beltran.

 

Beltran has a 20 million dollar contract, and won't be netting anyone a first rounder. There are only a handful of teams that spend that kind of money. Factor out the ones not in the playoff hunt, and the ones cutting costs, and the ones who are set at corner OF... and there are a maximum 1-2 other teams who will be interested.

 

Nowhere did I say that Hanley will be a bad outfielder. But it will take him time to adjust to the position. We're in the middle of world series run, and quite frankly, I prefer the sure-thing right now.

[Spitball]

Yaz won 7 Gold Gloves.

 

I certainly wasn't dissing Yastrzemski but defending my mention of Beniquez. I left Yaz off my list because he simply slipped my mind.

 

Palodios, I see your logic on Beltran and believe I might agree. If a team is willing to take him and pay the remainder of his contract, he will cost marginal lower level prospects. If a team takes him in trade and the Mets have to pay a decent amount of his salary, he will cost very good prospects.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow.

 

I think I must have completely missed this. Did anyone know that Scutaro is hitting .293 with a .360 OBP this year??

 

Alright. Taking my attention away from SS now, RF is an absolute priority. Right now, we ride the Reddick train until it cools off. Hopefully by then the Mets will be out of contention and will be sellers. I actually think that, regardless of whether the Mets are in contention or not, they're going to want to dish Beltran for the sole reason that they won't get any compensation picks for him.

[a700hitter]

I certainly wasn't dissing Yastrzemski, but defending my mention of Beniquez. I left Yaz off my list because he simply slipped my mind.

I wasn't being critical. I was just surprised that Beniquez came to mind. There are not too many people here who remember him.

 

The 1975 Red Sox had some group of OFers-- Rice, Lynn, Evans, Yaz, Carbo, Miller, and Beniquez. The worst was Rice, and he was pretty good. The rest were excellent. The best might have been Rick Miller. Those seven guys were on the roster at the same time. Can you imagine that. Yaz played mainly first base, but he played some OF that year. Today, teams never carry a 6th OFer and sometimes don't carry a 5th OFer.

[Spitball]

I wasn't being critical. I was just surprised that Beniquez came to mind. There are not too many people here who remember him.

 

The 1975 Red Sox had some group of OFers-- Rice, Lynn, Evans, Yaz, Carbo, Miller, and Beniquez. The worst was Rice, and he was pretty good. The rest were excellent. The best might have been Rick Miller. Those seven guys were on the roster at the same time. Can you imagine that. Yaz played mainly first base, but he played some OF that year. Today, teams never carry a 6th OFer and sometimes don't carry a 5th OFer.

 

That was a very impressive group. Two HOFers and numerous Gold Gloves earned through their careers. If Lynn had stayed in Boston and stayed healthy, I believe he would have been a HOFer also.

[Palodios]

I think I must have completely missed this. Did anyone know that Scutaro is hitting .293 with a .360 OBP this year??

 

The last few years he's been a .340-.350 OBP guy, and he's got a pretty cheap option for 2012. We were so focused on Lowrie, a lot of us forgot how good he is.

[boston22407]

Can we just please go out and get him and Carlos !

[SoxSport]

What the Sox need right now is another good starter. With two of their big three starters out, they are losing to lowly teams. Wake, Lackey, Aceves are not doing the job. They are losing tonite, and could be swept in Pittsburgh if Miller can't hold the fort. Imagine losing all those games to SD and Pitt. $150 million dollar team.

 

Meanwhile, the Yankees are cleaning up--at home again, where they have been most of the first half.

[Spitball]

... Imagine losing all those games to SD and Pitt. $150 million dollar team.

 

Teams like these will beat the very good teams like Boston now and again. They will take three and four game series. It happens. They might even have an entire productive season now and again. But year in and year out over 162 games, I like the Sox chances. Really, I am glad it is that way. It is one of the things that makes baseball great, but also helps those who consider themselves Red Sox fans. The game has to stay competitive.

 

Really, I consider it a totally MFY attitude to feel their zabillion dollar team is in some way anointed the right to defeat the Pirates/Royals/Reds of the world.

[Spitball]

Really, I consider it a totally MFY attitude to feel their zabillion dollar team is in some way anointed the right to defeat the Pirates/Royals/Reds of the world.

 

With that said, losing to any team sucks. I do expect the winning will far outweigh the losing when all the teams on the schedule have been played.

[a700hitter]

With that said' date=' losing to any team sucks. I do expect the winning will far outweigh the losing when all the teams on the schedule have been played.[/quote']This NL trip should be a wake up call for the FO. If we get to the World Series, we would have real problems in the NL park. Getting a SS that can hit, i.e. Reyes would help solve a lot of that problem.

[Palodios]

This NL trip should be a wake up call for the FO. If we get to the World Series' date=' we would have real problems in the NL park. Getting a SS that can hit, i.e. Reyes would help solve a lot of that problem.[/quote']

 

Have you even watched this series? The real need is OF.