Who is hurting this team so far...?

[Emmz]

No, because fans criticize Francona too much. I'm not exactly sure who the bashers think could do the job better.

 

Hating on Crawford doesn't hurt the team, it just shows how naive the Red Sox Nation is.

 

At some point, you have to hold someone accountable for a severe underperformance. If the Red Sox were to miss the playoffs, it would most likely be the end of Francona, because of some of the decisions he's made that have cost the team leads, games, etc.

 

And Crawford is not above criticism, I like how you changed it to "hating", brilliant job with the straw man. Try again.

[Six4Three]

Sure looks like hating to me. Plenty of people here have said he "sucks" which is ridiculous. I guess that's defined now by how many pitches a batter doesn't take.

 

If the Sox don't make it into the playoffs it will be because they had more key injuries than the Yankees or Rays. Same as last year. If Francona gets run out of town he'll be courted by every other team in the majors. Fans need to show him some support.

[IRON HORSE]

Does anybody think that we will trade for another starter pitchers as Dice-K is now gone (presumably for the rest of his sox career as his contract expires in 2012). I realize that Aceves and Wakefield will share starts and Lackey is now back from injury.

[iortiz]

Does anybody think that we will trade for another starter pitchers as Dice-K is now gone (presumably for the rest of his sox career as his contract expires in 2012). I realize that Aceves and Wakefield will share starts and Lackey is now back from injury.

 

After Aceves' performance showed so far, he should take that spot...and certainly D-K won't hurt this team anymore, thanks God.

[Emmz]

Sure looks like hating to me. Plenty of people here have said he "sucks" which is ridiculous. I guess that's defined now by how many pitches a batter doesn't take.

 

*Looks at post*

 

Hmm, nope, I never said "hating".

 

Also, I'd like to know what your criteria for "hating" is, because if saying someone sucks out of frustration is "hate", then you must be pretty thin-skinned. Like I said 10, 12 of your posts are telling everyone how awesome you think he is, even though at this point, he's playing terribly. He's not above criticism, and dare I say, he's certainly not above "hate". No one is.

 

If the Sox don't make it into the playoffs it will be because they had more key injuries than the Yankees or Rays. Same as last year. If Francona gets run out of town he'll be courted by every other team in the majors. Fans need to show him some support.

 

I agree, but Front Offices don't see it the same way. They will hold someone accountable, and it's usually the manager.

 

I think the Tito bashing is pretty old too, but fans are going to get frustrated by his poor game-management skills, that have been on display and under fire even when he was winning games. This isn't new, it's just more intense now that the expectations are so high. I don't think the FO wants to see him waiting too long to pull a pitcher, or pulling his starter that's cruising, only to see his replacement get shelled.

 

I think game-management in baseball is overrated, and that most of the manager's impact comes from how he does with his players, and Tito's one of the best with players. If the Sox miss the playoffs, I don't know if the FO will see it the same way.

[Station 13]

Well Pedroia's defense still a huge part of his game. He's also on pace to steal 30-35. If he doesn't have that with his slumping bat, he's likely on the DL now. So he's not entirely killing the team.

[SCM33]

Sure looks like hating to me. Plenty of people here have said he "sucks" which is ridiculous. I guess that's defined now by how many pitches a batter doesn't take.

 

Nope. He wasnt getting base hits or walking. Pretty much if you do neither of those things and have a terrible approach at the plate, you suck.

 

Hes been a lot better for a month and is starting to pull himself out of it numbers wise.

 

He is not above criticism because of past performance and reputation. He was playing terrible and fans let him know about it. Simple as that.

[Six4Three]

 

I think game-management in baseball is overrated, and that most of the manager's impact comes from how he does with his players, and Tito's one of the best with players.

 

Precisely why there shouldn't be so much energy spent bashing him. No online message board member has ever made a more informed prediction than Francona and his coaches. Ever. Be happy that the players love him.

 

 

I post a lot about CC because there are so many threads criticizing him. I realize that he doesn't fit the profile of a typical Red Sox fan-favorite but the heckling should have stopped over six weeks ago.

[Emmz]

Not really, he's making a lot of money, when he plays like they paid him to play, which is the guy who played for the Rays, he will stop getting s*** from the fans. Every high-paid player who struggles gets criticized, especially the newly-signed ones.

 

As for Tito, I agree.

[Six4Three]

Nope. He wasn't getting base hits or walking. Pretty much if you do neither of those things and have a terrible approach at the plate, you suck.

 

Hes been a lot better for a month and is starting to pull himself out of it numbers wise.

 

He is not above criticism because of past performance and reputation. He was playing terrible and fans let him know about it. Simple as that.

 

He wasn't signed for his ability to walk. He's not expected to walk more than 30 times per year.

 

He played horribly for the first three weeks and like an all-star for the last six weeks. His average is .297 since April 22 with several game-winning runs and hits. Again, that should have excused him from criticism during that period but for some reason it didn't.

 

 

Emmz, we're making progress. Let me know when you consider it official that CC is performing up to his contract and we'll be on the same page. I say he's currently doing it, but that's just me.

[RedSoxFaithful]

 

How is game managemnet over rated? So why don't we just flip a coin to see who comes in from our bull pen. That's like saying it doesn't matter if we have Wheeler in in a close game in the 8th or Bard.

[SCM33]

He wasn't signed for his ability to walk. He's not expected to walk more than 30 times per year.

Correct. He wasnt getting base hits either which lead to criticism that he brought on himself. Speaking about what he was paid for, does he even have 10 SB's yet?

 

He played horribly for the first three weeks and like an all-star for the last six weeks. His average is .297 since April 22 with several game-winning runs and hits. Again' date=' that should have excused him from criticism during that period but for some reason it didn't..[/quote']

 

Dont sugarcoat it, hes a big boy...he gets paid a lot of money to withstand a few boos. Also, lets not over analyze his numbers. He was absolutely terrible in April and in May returned to career norm.

 

Hating on Crawford doesn't hurt the team' date=' it just shows how naive the Red Sox Nation is.[/quote']

You are the naive one my friend. Compared to what other players have gone through in this city, a few boos were extremely mild. Fans were plenty patient with him.

 

Why does any of this matter? Hes playing well now and nobody "hated" him. The fans were criticizing the fact he was hitting .155 at the end of April, deservedly so.

[iortiz]

Well Pedroia's defense still a huge part of his game. He's also on pace to steal 30-35. If he doesn't have that with his slumping bat' date=' he's likely on the DL now. [b']So he's not entirely killing the team[/b].

 

Entirely, certainly he is not... but offensively...last couple of weeks, and if you rush me, last month, oh yeah, he's been hurting this team in that department and mostly since he is in that 2nd spot.

[iortiz]

These two are hurting this team.

 

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8017/screenshot20110621at120.png

 

Cameron is done! he is .153 BA/.221 OBP/.282 SLG/.503 OPS/ unacceptable for a player who is making almost 8 MUSD this year. His hurting goes beyond, he's clogging talents like Reddick.

McDonald hasn't showed he's ready for the majors this season, he goes for every pitch, zero discipline AB. .114 BA/.184 OBP/.200 SLG/.384 OPS. He does well in the minors, keep him there.

[Emmz]

How is game managemnet over rated? So why don't we just flip a coin to see who comes in from our bull pen. That's like saying it doesn't matter if we have Wheeler in in a close game in the 8th or Bard.

 

it's pretty simple, game management is overrated because your guys in the end are the ones who are supposed to perform. There's really nothing that takes too much brainpower involved in game management, picking your pitcher is mostly just some simple matchup decision. If your guy f***s up it's his fault, not yours.

 

There are some decisions that obviously make you go wtf, like putting Pedro in versus the Yankees to get the crowd back into it and on short rest is a wtf move. Putting Matt Guerrier in to face A-Rod and Tex is a huge wtf too. Putting Wheeler in because he's supposed to be reliable is not, putting Bobby Jenks in is not. Those decisions can hurt your team, Tito is a great players manager, which is what managing is mostly about, especially in the AL.

 

Baseball is not a tactics sport, the game management is so overrated, people get so upset when Tito goes with Wheeler or Jenks, it's not his fault, these are the guys he's supplied with, they're the ones supposed to do their job. I actually used to be in the same boat, where I thought Tito's game management held this team back, not the case though, rather his player skills gives them an advantage as a team.

[Station 13]

These two are hurting this team.

 

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8017/screenshot20110621at120.png

 

Cameron is done! he is .153 BA/.221 OBP/.282 SLG/.503 OPS/ unacceptable for a player who is making almost 8 MUSD this year. His hurting goes beyond, he's clogging talents like Reddick.

McDonald hasn't showed he's ready for the majors this season, he goes for every pitch, zero discipline AB. .114 BA/.184 OBP/.200 SLG/.384 OPS. He does well in the minors, keep him there.

 

Even Tek has better numbers.

 

It's embarrassing having Cameron, McDonald, Bowden and Hottovy on this roster.

[Palodios]

Baseball is not a tactics sport' date=' the game management is so overrated, people get so upset when Tito goes with Wheeler or Jenks, it's not his fault, these are the guys he's supplied with, they're the ones supposed to do their job. I actually used to be in the same boat, where I thought Tito's game management held this team back, not the case though, rather his player skills gives them an advantage as a team.[/quote']

 

These aren't the things that we complain about. In a save situation, it is Albers, Bard, Papelbon, if available, and that doesn't change much. The problem is when Tito will throw in a Hottovy or Wakefield type in a close game when they're down 1 or 2 runs. With a 7 man bullpen, you have a closer, setup guys, middle inning guys, and mopup guys. Down a few runs in a close game, you throw out the middle inning guys, not the mopup.

[Dojji]

We go into more than enough games with a lead to give our pitching-with-a-lead guys all the work they want. You gotta get 'em some days off, and if you're trailing, that's as good a time to do it as any.

[Palodios]

We go into more than enough games with a lead to give our pitching-with-a-lead guys all the work they want. You gotta get 'em some days off' date=' and if you're trailing, that's as good a time to do it as any.[/quote']

 

Way to read the post.

[Spitball]

These aren't the things that we complain about. In a save situation' date=' it is Albers, Bard, Papelbon, if available, and that doesn't change much. The problem is when Tito will throw in a Hottovy or Wakefield type in a close game when they're down 1 or 2 runs. With a 7 man bullpen, you have a closer, setup guys, middle inning guys, and mopup guys. Down a few runs in a close game, you throw out the middle inning guys, not the mopup.[/quote']

 

I don't disagree, but managing a bullpen is surely the toughest aspect of running a baseball team. There are a lot of variables and aspects to consider.

 

With starters, it is all understood and pretty well measured out. You expect every fifth day and hope for six quality innings. There will be controversy over who should and shouldn't be in the rotation, but starters have regularly scheduled appearances.

 

With relievers, it is about weighing lots of in-game consequences. Who is rested? When should a reliever start warming -up? What match ups might occur in the coming innings? How can the bullpen be preserved for the coming series? What to do when Tuck says someone's stuff just isn't working on a given night? And, how does a manager build confidence in a struggling but once competent reliever?

 

I agree that the bullpen guys have roles, but sometimes it isn't just black and white evident what pitcher should be pitching.

[Palodios]

I agree that the bullpen guys have roles' date=' but sometimes it isn't just black and white evident what pitcher should be pitching.[/quote']

 

But sometimes it is black and white. Knuckleball pitchers have no business being put into the game with the bases loaded in a close game. Ever. Buchholz should not throw 95 pitches one week, and 130 the next in April. These are the boneheaded things I criticize.

[SoxSport]

Cameron and Lackey have been the biggest disappointments.

 

It looks like Cameron arrived in ST hurt 2 years ago, and has never regained his form. Of course, it's hard for a player to play to his career stats playing part-time. But he is way overpaid for what he has done in Boston.

 

Another guy who keeps Theo awake nights is Lackey. This guy is nowhere near the #1 or 2 starter they paid for. He has lost a ton off his fastball since his Angels days. $15 million per for how many years?

Yikes.

 

Who said Salty? Cripes, they got the kid for nothing. He was a bargain even in April when he wasn't hitting.

 

You have to look at what the guy is costing. In those terms, you have to add Crawford to the list. To date, he is nowhere near a $20 million player. Not even close. But it's still early.

[SoxSport]

But sometimes it is black and white. Knuckleball pitchers have no business being put into the game with the bases loaded in a close game. Ever. Buchholz should not pitch 95 innings one week' date=' and 130 the next in April. These are the boneheaded things I criticize.[/quote']

 

I think you mean pitches--not innings.

 

The problem is these guys are conditioned on pitch counts. You go over the pitch count, you take a risk. 100 and out.

 

They are not conditioned to throw CGs.

 

Trouble is max pitch counts keep shrinking. 120 to 110 to 100 currently. That puts undue stress on a bullpen filled with mediocrity.

[Spitball]

But sometimes it is black and white. Knuckleball pitchers have no business being put into the game with the bases loaded in a close game. Ever.

 

Yeah, but the bases were not loaded when the knuckleball pitcher began warming up. The pitcher is warmed up but the circumstances have changed. Those things happen. Ideally, you don't want a knuckleballer in there with a runner on third, but there are lots of factors dictating a decision.

 

Buchholz should not throw 95 pitches one week' date=' and 130 the next in April. These are the boneheaded things I criticize.[/quote']

 

As SoxSports stated, you meant pitches and not innings. Also, I believe the pitch counts you mentioned occured in mid-May and not April.

[Palodios]

Yeah, but the bases were not loaded when the knuckleball pitcher began warming up. The pitcher is warmed up but the circumstances have changed. Those things happen. Ideally, you don't want a knuckleballer in there with a runner on third, but there are lots of factors dictating a decision.

 

As SoxSports stated, you meant pitches and not innings. Also, I believe the pitch counts you mentioned occured in mid-May and not April.

 

Wakefield takes a very long time to warm up. Tito should know that.

 

Oh, you're right, that was May. My bad, I was thinking of when Dice-k went from 89 pitches to 115 pitches in April. Or when Beckett went from 101 to 125 in April. Escalating a pitcher's pitch count by 20+ is just plain dumb, and all three of those pitchers have had injury issues this year.

[redsoxbeatz]

I think the clear answer is, Reddick not playing at least 80% of the games

[iortiz]

it's pretty simple' date=' game management is overrated because your guys in the end are the ones who are supposed to perform[/b']. There's really nothing that takes too much brainpower involved in game management, picking your pitcher is mostly just some simple matchup decision. If your guy f***s up it's his fault, not yours.

 

There are some decisions that obviously make you go wtf, like putting Pedro in versus the Yankees to get the crowd back into it and on short rest is a wtf move. Putting Matt Guerrier in to face A-Rod and Tex is a huge wtf too. Putting Wheeler in because he's supposed to be reliable is not, putting Bobby Jenks in is not. Those decisions can hurt your team, Tito is a great players manager, which is what managing is mostly about, especially in the AL.

 

Baseball is not a tactics sport, the game management is so overrated, people get so upset when Tito goes with Wheeler or Jenks, it's not his fault, these are the guys he's supplied with, they're the ones supposed to do their job. I actually used to be in the same boat, where I thought Tito's game management held this team back, not the case though, rather his player skills gives them an advantage as a team.

 

Well, in every sport, the final responsible are the players. I think that a manager doesn't have more than 20% of weight in a team. But that 20% could mark the difference in a Win or a Lose, and mostly in a very competitive league as the MLB. In baseball, before, during and after the game, there are a lot of situations to consider in order to maximize that 20%. Apply a tactic(s)/decision(s) for a certain situation is not trivial, in some cases could be obvious and in some are not; but a decision has to be made and certainly will impact for good or bad in the final result. In the real end, the first responsible if something goes wrong is the manager. They have to live with that since a different move(s)/tactic(s) always can be called if something goes wrong, and they are usually very well paid in order to make a lot of more good than bad calls.

[iortiz]

still horrendous, 7 ERA for a 15 MUSD pitcher, is simply unacceptable!

 

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5446/screenshot20110622at354.png

[Dojji]

That's your Derek Lowe Face moment.

 

Alas and aLackey.

 

If we want to win we can't keep carrying this guy, I'm sorry. Phantom DL and see ya next year.

[SoxSport]

Fortunately, game management is overrated. If teams had to rely on managerial skills to win games, they would be in a lot of trouble.