Yankee Trade Rumors- Latest: Liriano to the Yanks??

[Meh]

Horne blew out his arm twice. Wright never improved his command. These guys aren't 100% locks. There's always something they need to improve on and for a pitcher' date=' health is the most important[/quote']

 

Wright threw 88 mph though and had one pitch. He was basically Edwar Ramirez, but his changeup was a little downgraded.

[Meh]

Jacko' date=' let's face the facts, man. You're a weatherman who calls for rain every day. Because your forecast never changes, it means you aren't prescient when it rains. Start giving us some mixed reviews, ie tone down the hyperbole with these kids, and you'll be a little more credible. Short of that, you'll get labelled, correctly I might add, as a pom-pom waving homer.[/quote']

 

No one likes to talk about meh prospects like Austin Krum or Dan Brewer or Ryan Pope. It doesn't make me hard to say oh boy that Garrison Lassiter might one day be good enough to be considered to be a potential option for a bench spot in 2017!!! Mr Jackson like many other Yankee fans want to talk about Montero, Banuelos, Sanchez, Brackman, Betances, Warren, etc. Like Red Sox fans want to talk about Ranuado and Iggy and not Tim Federowicz.

[ORS]

No one likes to talk about meh prospects like Austin Krum or Dan Brewer or Ryan Pope. It doesn't make me hard to say oh boy that Garrison Lassiter might one day be good enough to be considered to be a potential option for a bench spot in 2017!!! Mr Jackson like many other Yankee fans want to talk about Montero' date=' Banuelos, Sanchez, Brackman, Betances, Warren, etc. Like Red Sox fans want to talk about Ranuado and Iggy and not Tim Federowicz.[/quote']

I don't care if you talk about them. It's how you talk about them. There was no tempered optimism for Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, Alan Horne, Phil Hughes, etc. It was pure unmitigated ball washing. This is the crux of what kreinbihl was getting at, and what many of us have witnessed since Jacko joined the board.

[Dipre]

I find it funny that the two people that hang on Frankie Piliere's nuts the most (Meh and Jacksonian) because of his raving reviews of most Yankee top prospects directly contradict his opinions on a former Red Sox prospect (Kelly) and a current one (Iglesias' ability to hit) because quite honestly, neither of you is a scout, you haven't seen him play consistently, and like the rest of us, mostly regurgitate or interpret other people's opinions, and scouts are saying that his bat is catching up, so what do you base this opinion on? Specially given the fact that Piliere himself argues this very same thing (that his bat is catching up), and he projects him to be an above-average hitter, and i quote:

 

We've heard all about the glove and Iglesias' stunning skills at shortstop, but his bat is slowly catching up. He'll always be known for his defense, make no mistake, but he looks like he'll be a more than representative big-league hitter as well.

 

The thread in itself doesn't annoy me, but the lack of objectivity from Yankee fans does. Just the smallest measure of objectivity concerning the flaws of Yankee prospects and good things about Red Sox prospects would be enough but i've learned not to expect it.

[yankees228]

As I've said before, the narrative about Jacko doesn't agree with reality. He definitely leans towards optimism, but he doesn't fit the picture you've portrayed. I could go on and on with examples of Jacko being completely fair when it comes to his opinion of the Yankees Minor League system, but to kick it off, here's his first MiLB update from last year.

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/538858-post37.html

 

I don't need to break this down for you ... optimism and negativity, in almost equal amounts.

 

EDIT: This is a response to ORS, but it might as well be towards everyone who agrees with him.

[ORS]

That's statistical analysis. It's hard to pretty up a s*** stat line. What we are talking about is projection, which where essence of Jacko really shines.

 

Good find on the scout quote, Dipre. Backpedaling in 3, 2, ...

[yankees228]

That's statistical analysis. It's hard to pretty up a s*** stat line. What we are talking about is projection, which where essence of Jacko really shines.

 

Good find on the scout quote, Dipre. Backpedaling in 3, 2, ...

 

You've (and others) complained before that Jacko only talks about the positive, as recently as agreeing with VA's assessment that Jacko only starting the Spring Training thread because AJ Burnett had a good outing.

[ORS]

You've (and others) complained before that Jacko only talks about the positive' date=' as recently as agreeing with VA's assessment that Jacko only starting the Spring Training thread because AJ Burnett had a good outing.[/quote']

Well, if you are going to hold to a strict definition of "only", then you are right. If something happens 99.9999% of the time, then, technically, it is incorrect to use the term only. So, you got me there, kudos.

 

However, you are still conflating things. Jacko doesn't argue against stats. They are what they are, biased he may be, but he's not stupid. That's where Gom stepped in. What he's most guilty of is drawing attention to the good stats and making little mention of the bad stats. Last year, we got an update on Montero after practically every game he hit a HR in. We heard next to nothing on his 0-3 with 2 K's nights. This is the root of VA's comment, and my agreement.

 

In that vein, the people he's most guilty of hyperbole with are those doing well statistically. In other words, if there are good things in the scouting report and there are good things in the statistical record.....then WATCH OUT, we have a superstar on our hands. The negatives in the SR tend to brushed over as inconsequential, and there's no tempering of the optimism.

 

Take Hughes as an example. Very good SR, very good minor league statistical record, very big projections from Jacko. However, I recall reading some reports that suggested he may need to add movement to his minor league FB, and that he didn't have a true 3rd pitch (the 3rd pitch was developing, but not there yet). Well, low and behold, the root of his inability to transcend into an ace is a combination of lacking a FB with good movement (you have stated repeatedly your desire to see less of his cutter) and an underdeveloped change up. His command of his 4-seam FB is really good, and his curve is good, but that's not enough. And all we heard while he was pitching in the minors is "he's DIIIRTY", "he's going to be goooood", and, of course, we pretty much just got updates from his good games.

 

Turn the page and go to Michael Bowden. Bowden's SR was very good too, and his statistical record, while not as good as Hughes', was still pretty good. His SR also suggested he lacked an out pitch, there was very little "swing and a miss" to his stuff. Was it a coincidence that Jacko picked up on this negative? Or was it because the uniform was different? You know my answer, I'll leave it up to you to decide, but just pay attention to the next group coming up for both sides. See which side he attempts to temper optimism for, if you don't believe me.

 

Who knows, maybe he wasn't aware he was doing this, and having it stated for him will make him more aware of his behavior. Or maybe he'll change his behavior just to spite me. Either way, I'll either be proved right if he won't change, or I'll get the improved behavior. So, from my perspective, it's win/win.

[yankees228]

I just disagree with the idea that the vast majority of what he says is positive. I posted the statistical updates because they clearly illustrate Jacko's willingness to post negative things about the Yankees, an idea you seem to be disagreeing with. Furthermore, he has posted numerous extremely negative threads about the Yankees, essentially saying their season is over, in past years. I'll admit that, with the scouting reports, he has had his moments where he focuses on the positives when it comes to Yankees' prospects, and the negatives when it comes to Red Sox's prospects.

 

On the whole, I just think Jacko's bias is overstated. He's not your average idiotic Yankee fan who just covers his ears and yells 'YANKEES RULE, RED SOX SUCK'. That's not to say he doesn't have his biased moments, which he does, but no more so than most of the members on this site. Now, I completely understand that it's acceptable from a Red Sox fan here, because it's a Red Sox forum. I have no issue with that, but it just gets frustrating when every conversation involving Jacko turns into people calling him biased when a) that feeling comes more from the accepted narrative about Jacko rather than what he's actually saying and many of those people are guilty of similar things.

 

By the way, on a separate note, we never revisited our Yankees' money/salary cap debate ... but point to you, after having given it more thought I'm completely in favor of MLB team salaries to be capped (and floored).

[Meh]

I find it funny that the two people that hang on Frankie Piliere's nuts the most (Meh and Jacksonian) because of his raving reviews of most Yankee top prospects directly contradict his opinions on a former Red Sox prospect (Kelly) and a current one (Iglesias' ability to hit) because quite honestly, neither of you is a scout, you haven't seen him play consistently, and like the rest of us, mostly regurgitate or interpret other people's opinions, and scouts are saying that his bat is catching up, so what do you base this opinion on? Specially given the fact that Piliere himself argues this very same thing (that his bat is catching up), and he projects him to be an above-average hitter, and i quote:

 

 

 

The thread in itself doesn't annoy me, but the lack of objectivity from Yankee fans does. Just the smallest measure of objectivity concerning the flaws of Yankee prospects and good things about Red Sox prospects would be enough but i've learned not to expect it.

 

I never said Kelly wasn't a good prospect. I just said Banuelos was better, a sentiment I share with Mr Piliere

[a700hitter]

Jacko is a homer!!???? I never realized that. Oh no, we don't have any homers here!!!:lol::lol:

 

I have no problem with Jacko being a homer. I have a problem with him being a Yankee fan.

[Divinity]

Cliff Lee was on WIP in Philly with Angelo Cataldi last week and gave some insight to his decision

 

Who finished second to the Phillies in his mind:

 

“Texas probably finished second to be honest with you. Just as far as the quality of the team and the chance to win a World Series ring, I think they’re a better team. That’s just my opinion. The Yankees can do anything at any moment to improve and they’re not afraid to go do things. That was part of the decision making process too, but I felt like with what the Red Sox had done and it seems like some of the Yankee guys are getting older, but I liked the Rangers.”

 

Interesting. Of course, if you go by average age of the roster, Philly is the oldest team in all of baseball. New York is ninth.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yanks are close to signing Millwood to a MiLB deal. He'll have escalators in his contract if he makes the team. Not sure why the yanks are going after him if he's truly topping out at 85mph, maybe they think he'll improve on that with some formal work in the minors

[ORS]

Interesting. Of course, if you go by average age of the roster, Philly is the oldest team in all of baseball. New York is ninth.

Interesting. Of course, if you go by what he actually said, that some of the Yankee guys were getting older, there's no need for retort because he's right. He never said the Phillies were a younger team. It's pretty clear that his point is that the guys key to the Yankees' success (Jeter, Rodriguez, Posada, Rivera) are getting older.

[jacksonianmarch]

Everybody is getting older. It's a fact of life

[Meh]

Mitre was traded to the Brewers.... for Ryan Braun. Ok I woke up, I don't know what we got but it's probably nothing or a small cash sum.

[jacksonianmarch]

Millwood officially signed. MiLB deal with a $1 million MLB contract escalator. If he can get his velocity up, then he's an intriguing option. But throwing 85mph coming off your worst yr in your late 30s doesnt really scream improved velocity.

[Meh]

Sherman predicts the Yankees will send Betances and Nunez for Jared Weaver in the summer. I like weaver and respect him, but no thanks. Jeff scarred Jared for me.

[a700hitter]

Sherman predicts the Yankees will send Betances and Nunez for Jared Weaver in the summer. I like weaver and respect him' date=' but no thanks. Jeff scarred Jared for me.[/quote']Jared is a horse, and the Yankees would be robbing the Angels blind by getting a stud like that for two over-hyped nobodys.

[Palodios]

What is with these rumors of teams trading their ace for one or two low-level prospects?

[Dipre]

What's next, Lincecum for a couple bottles or Gatorade, or no wait, maybe Ricky Romero for some chewing tobacco?

[boston22407]

or Stephen Strasburg for a bag of baseballs

[Meh]

Jared is a horse' date=' and the Yankees would be robbing the Angels blind by getting a stud like that for two over-hyped nobodys.[/quote']

 

Jared looks amish and kind of scares me. I like Betances, not to high on Nunez though.