Rank the Red Sox 1-25

[SoxSport]

Pedroia-1, Youks-2, Lester-3, Crawford-4, AdGon-5, Buchholz-6.

 

Pedroia is the straw that stirs the Red Sox.

[italstallianion]

Speaking of which YOTN, did you ever see that Ed Byrne video I sent you? He rips on Alanis Morrisette for her song "Ironic", I think you'd enjoy it.

 

[Youk Of The Nation]

No. Maybe I'll watch it later. I've ripped on that song enough myself.

[italstallianion]

While you're at it, Bo Burnham has a song called "Ironic" as well, which you might want to rip on too.

 

 

Just in case.

[example1]

1. Pedroia (I think he's a Hall of Famer if he stays healthy. As much as I hate to say it, his intangables are top-notch).

2. Lester (If he stays healthy for 10-12 years, could also be a HOF when he retires)

3. Youkilis (if there's a guy I want at bat to 'not make an out', it's him. Whereas Pedroia has intangables, Youkilis seems to have "tangibles"--you can measure why he's so effective and he's one of the best players in the league. I rank him above Gonzalez because of his defensive versatility and better eye.)

4. Gonzalez (ditto above, except he's 2nd best)

5. Buchholz (could be better than Lester when all is said and done)

6. Crawford (shooting for 3000 hits, comparable to Roberto Clemente, minus the arm, w/ better speed)

7. Bard (stuff speaks for itself)

8. Lackey (I like his consistency more than Beckett's upside, only slightly)

9. Beckett

10. Papelbon

11. Ellsbury (at his best he could surpass Crawford to #6)

12. Drew (tools, yes. Consistency, resilience, not so much)

13. Matsuzaka (could pass both Lackey and Beckett if he puts it all together. I'm still a Dice-K fan)

14. Jenks

15. Kalish (I really like this kid, even at the AAA level to start the year)

16. Lowrie (I like him more than many)

17. Wheeler

18. Salty

 

... beyond that I get bored trying to pretend I can rank their pieces. It would more-or-less mirror the way others have ranked the Cameron's and Scutaro's, Varitek's and Doubront's of the world.

[Dojji]

I have to think that even if he's a bench dude, as long as his bat plays up Lowrie will be more instrumental to our winning games than most of the middle relievers, unless we have someone break out and really do something.

 

I like Kalish too, if I could have ranked him on my own list though, I'd rank him only about 18-20 this year, not because he'd be a bad player but simply because he's not likely to get the opportunities in the bigs to really get higher than that.

[Station 13]

Top 10:

 

1. Lester

2. Youkilis

3. Pedroia

4. Gonzalez

5. Crawford

6. Buchholz

7. Bard

8. Lackey

9. Ellsbury

10. Beckett

[Palodios]

1. Lester

2. Buchholz*

3. Youkilis

4. Gonzalez

5. Pedroia

6. Lackey

7. Crawford

8. Daisuke

9. Beckett

10. Bard **

11. Drew

12. Ortiz

13. Lowrie

14. Wheeler

15. Cameron ***

16. Scutaro

17. Jenks

18. Papelbon

19. Ellsbury***

20. Varitek

21. Aceves

22. Doubront

23. Atchison

24. Mcdonald

25. Saltamachia

 

 

*Now I know this sounds pretty high. But Buch kept this team together last year. He gave up only 6 runs in April last year when the rest of the rotation floundered. When all the injuries hit the 2010 team, we were all surprised at how well the team was surviving-- but the team went downhill the moment Buchholz was replaced by Wakefield. The team has enough pieces to keep its offense alive while missing one, maybe two of its elite bats-- look at last year's team, or last year's Twins for a good example of that. But the difference in quality between Buchholz and Wakefield was unbelievable. If Buchholz can become a 3.0 ERA, ace quality pitcher next year, he's the second most important player on the team.

 

**Its painful to put Bard here, but if he has a bad year, I don't think its as big a hit as if one of the starters has a bad year.

 

*** I have low expectations for both of them in 2011, but Cameron's handedness is important in that outfield.

[SoxSport]

I see a lot of people are leaving Wakefield out of the top 25. I suspect there will be a moment of reckoning in ST, unless Wake shows something. They need his spot for a second LHd reliever. That is almost essential.

 

I see Tito is going Ells-Pedy-Crawford 1-2-3 in the batting order. Which a few of us predicted. Next, hopefully he will platoon Papi against most LHP--for Cameron or McDonald.

[ORS]

I see a lot of people are leaving Wakefield out of the top 25. I suspect there will be a moment of reckoning in ST, unless Wake shows something. They need his spot for a second LHd reliever. That is almost essential.

 

I see Tito is going Ells-Pedy-Crawford 1-2-3 in the batting order. Which a few of us predicted. Next, hopefully he will platoon Papi against most LHP--for Cameron or McDonald.

Do you think that continues when Youkilis and Gonzalez are added to the lineup? Might want to calm down on the back patting.

[Palodios]

Remember that Tito is a player's manager. I think it would not be a sign of good faith to take Ellsbury, who may have suffered medical malpractice, and made pitiful money in arbitration, and put him last in the order. If he doesn't hit well, drop him.

[ORS]

I'm not saying it won't happen. Stupid things happen for stupid reasons every day. I am saying that two lineups from Spring Training where the team's two best hitters weren't in the lineup are not indicative of what will be happening come opening day. Also, I'll add that the more prudent thing would be to "see if he can hit" before putting him up there rather than seeing if he can't.

[Dipre]

I'm not saying it won't happen. Stupid things happen for stupid reasons every day. I am saying that two lineups from Spring Training where the team's two best hitters weren't in the lineup are not indicative of what will be happening come opening day. Also' date=' I'll add that the more prudent thing would be to "see if he can hit" before putting him up there rather than seeing if he can't.[/quote']

 

How would you feel about a 3-4-5 of Pedroia-Gonzales-Youk?

[ORS]

Wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd prefer Gonzalez/Youk/Ortiz, preceded, of course, by Crawford/Pedroia.

[Youk Of The Nation]

What about the order for 6-7-8-9? Do you have a preference?

[ORS]

Drew, Scutaro, Catcher, Ellsbury.

 

That way, you still have the potential of Ellsbury and Crawford on base together, only it just happens after you flip the lineup. And, again, this is how I'd start the year. If someone is performing above their station in the lineup, then I'd adjust.

[Palodios]

I'm skeptical about putting Ortiz and Drew back to back. Just too much lefty there.

[Dipre]

Drew, Scutaro, Catcher, Ellsbury.

 

That way, you still have the potential of Ellsbury and Crawford on base together, only it just happens after you flip the lineup. And, again, this is how I'd start the year. If someone is performing above their station in the lineup, then I'd adjust.

 

It's funny that all of us get heated arguing over things like this sometimes, but in the end, these are all good problems to have. This has to be the strongest Red Sox team any of us has ever seen.

[ORS]

I'm skeptical about putting Ortiz and Drew back to back. Just too much lefty there.

There are 5 full-time LHB on the team. There's no way around that.

 

EDIT: In the lineup, not on the team.

[Palodios]

There are 5 full-time LHB on the team. There's no way around that.

 

EDIT: In the lineup, not on the team.

 

No, I understand that, but that order gives you LLRRLL in the 5,6,7,8,9,1 spots. Even if catcher is going to be switch, I'd shuffle it up a bit.

[ORS]

I wouldn't. While the ideal may be to switch handedness, it's not as important as putting your better hitters near the heart of the order, IMO. Drew is miles better than Scutaro. Also, the catchers are both switch hitters, so they don't created a log jam of handedness. Furthermore, Ellsbury doesn't have a career split as a platoon hitter, so in reality, you have one situation (Ortiz/Drew) of players hitting consecutively in the order where platoon splits could be an issue. That said, most ABs are against RHP, and platoon issues can be addressed by using Cameron, either as the starter or later in the game as a pinch hitter (situation dependent), which I would support.

[Palodios]

Drew and Ortiz showed very extreme splits last year. From the 6th inning on, this spot in the order is going to be incredibly vulnerable, and having to pinch-hit for them every game is going to use up the bench early, and taking Drew's glove out of the outfield won't help the team either. I just don't think that giving Drew 15 more AB over the course of the season is worth it, especially if you're then going to lose those AB again by taking him out.

[ORS]

It's not about the 15 more AB. It's about having a superior hitter there behind Ortiz to hit after him when the likes of Gonzalez and Youkilis get on base and Ortiz doesn't drive them in or move them around. Whom do you prefer to be on deck when Ortiz is up and Gonzalez/Youk are on, Drew or Scutaro? It's is simple as that. I find little comfort in knowing they are less susceptible to a LHRP when it comes at the expense of having Scutaro next in the order.

[Palodios]

I'd prefer to see Lowrie up, personally. But then again, I just don't have that much confidence in Drew. He had a really off season last year, and he's been talking about retirement. If he's treating it like a contract year, he'll do well, but if he's just hanging in there for a last paycheck, I'm skeptical. Scutaro has grit that Drew never will, even if he wants to be the next Crocodile Dundee.

[ORS]

Right. Let me know when grit can make up for substantial differences in talent. Psychoanalysis aside, Drew is the much better player. I start the year with the better player in the more important lineup slot. As new evidence comes to light, I make changes.

[Palodios]

Drew is clearly more talented, no question. But he had a serious decline last year with no major health issues. I just don't think his heart is in it. Dipre hates me for it, but I truly value the intangibles of a player.

[Six4Three]

I find it shocking that Crawford is being ranked so low. Are the people here under the impression that he isn't one of the top four outfielders to ever put on a Red Sox uniform? I can see Lester being ranked high for being an ace and Pedroia for being a gamer with magnificent power at his position but c'mon, you're all missing something special here. (2011 stats not-withstanding).

 

If Crawford is 7th on this team then JD Drew's rank should be popcorn salesman #6.

[Palodios]

I find it shocking that Crawford is being ranked so low. Are the people here under the impression that he isn't one of the top four outfielders to ever put on a Red Sox uniform? I can see Lester being ranked high for being an ace and Pedroia for being a gamer with magnificent power at his position but c'mon, you're all missing something special here. (2011 stats not-withstanding).

 

If Crawford is 7th on this team then JD Drew's rank should be popcorn salesman #6.

 

You know, its getting almost humorous... In 2010, he had the 11th highest WAR of any player in the major leagues, pitcher or hitter. This year, he hasn't even played like the 11th best player on this team. Maybe when we actually see what he can do, that'll change our story.

[SoxSport]

Last time I looked, Crawford was still batting 7th. Let's talk again when he has hit his way back to the top of the order.

His "deer in a headlights" start gives cause for concern about his mental toughness.

 

Did anybody see Damon last night? my god, he looks better right now than any of the Red Sox outfielders. He has a bit of Pete Rose in him. 100% all the time.