Bad first impression but I have to let it out

[jacksonianmarch]

We'll see. Like I said before, Theo is always good for one big offseason splash. But losing out on your catcher isnt something that is replaceable. VMart was #2 in the pantheon of offensive catchers, after having leapt past Posada this past season. You arent getting #1 (Mauer). And you arent getting a guy like McCann. So that is a major downgrade, especially if Torrealba is your backup plan (which the sox have made contact with his agent).

[Emmz]

I recognize this posting style.

[BSN07]

We'll have to see what moves they make, but if they go the cheap stop gap route and let Crawford and Beltre sign elsewhere, miss the playoffs and be out of the race by August fan interest will fall precipitously and Theo may not make it to the other side of the "bridge".

 

Edit: Unless they make a couple of high profile acquisitions, they will just not be a compelling team to watch. Last year, they were not a fun team to watch, even when they were healthy. They played poor fundamental baseball from beginning to end with a bull pen that was a house of horrors. They we're very frustrating to watch. I have always (in good times and bad) bought my tickets the minute they go on sale. One year, I went to the "Christmas at Fenway" event to purchase tickets. I'm going to take a wait and see attitude this season. If a diehard lunatic like me feels this way, that can't be a good sign. In reality, the Sox have not been a compellingly interesting team since Manny and Ortiz anchored the lineup. I love Pedroia and his Laser Show, but nothing compared to the heavy artillery that Ortiz and Manny brought... Nothing.

 

I don't know why people consider Beltre as a possibility.

1. He had to be talked into coming to Boston last season.

2. He wants to be on the WC.

3. His agent is Scott Boras, so he won't be taking a discount.

4.The Red Sox have said their top offer will be 4/52M. And Oakland has already gone over that.

 

I'm not one to close a case early, especially when the player's name isn't on a contract yet. But this just seems very standard to me and I think it will be much more of a shock if he is actually on the team next season.

 

 

As far as fans losing interest. So be it, RSN could use a good purge of the "Pink Hat" crowd. The Red Sox will still sell out. All the true fans that have been blocked out recently by the pink hats, will finally get their chance to come back in to Fenway.

 

And as far as costs of tickets. Well if you want them to spend near the luxury tax or over and still placate to the nostalgic side and keep Fenway around, that's something your just gonna have to deal with and ultimately pay for.

[a700hitter]

As far as fans losing interest. So be it, RSN could use a good purge of the "Pink Hat" crowd. The Red Sox will still sell out. All the true fans that have been blocked out recently by the pink hats, will finally get their chance to come back in to Fenway.

It's not the pink hats they should worry about. When a fan of over 40 years who has traveled around the country to support the team, including 7 straight years of Spring Training, is not excited about the upcoming season, they have a problem. The diehards like me pony up their dough early on. Their financial guys like that. It projects to having a good season financially. IMO, the Sox will seek to make a big acquisition before tickets go on sale in December.

 

Fenway, as we know, is a small ballpark with the highest ticket prices in baseball. For those of you who think the gate receipts aren't the lifeblood of the franchise, you are just kidding yourselves. The owners want those fannies in the seats.

 

Edit: A lot of people here are already making excuses for anticipated failure. Some are even trying to paint it as not being a failure. I don't think the FO will fail. I don't think we will see a lineup of:

 

Youk -1B

Pedroia- 2B

Scutaro- SS

Lowrie- 3B

Salty-C

Kalish/Cameron -OF

Drew- OF

Ellsbury- OF

Ortiz- DH

 

That would be a failure. There is no other way to paint it or spin it. However, I don't think the FO will field that lineup.

[BSN07]

It's not the pink hats they should worry about. When a fan of over 40 years who has traveled around the country to support the team' date=' including 7 straight years of Spring Training, is not excited about the upcoming season, they have a problem. The diehards like me pony up their dough early on. Their financial guys like that. .[/quote']

 

If your not excited about the upcoming season that's a you problem. You would think after 40 years of die hard fan ship, this would be an odd time to start questioning your interest. I mean especially considering the last 7 years has given you 2 WS Championships and a team that is competitive almost every season. Did you just forget about the 30+ previous years of agony over 1 marginal season? Or a couple missed FA's?

 

You remind me of the older union guys I worked with when I was an apprentice. Every time money was voted on, they wanted it in the pocket. They didn't care about saving or planning for the future because well to be honest they where on the way out. While the younger guys wanted to save and build something better for not just the right now, but years down the road.

 

Now this isn't an insult or anything, but I'm assuming since you've been a die hard for 40+ years your probably more toward one end of the age scale then I am. And it could really explain why we have such different views all the time. You want results now, and to hell with any thought of not going all out now. Where as I am younger, and I am ok with planning for the future and not over paying for immediate results. I'm not analyzing, I've just been thinking lately how come we are basically polar opposites and yet still have a common bond in fan hood

[a700hitter]

As far as fans losing interest. So be it' date=' RSN could use a good purge of the "Pink Hat" crowd. The Red Sox will still sell out. All the true fans that have been blocked out recently by the pink hats, will finally get their chance to come back in to Fenway. [/quote']The more I think about this line the more I am baffled by it. Don't you live in the land of wooden shoes? Pink hats are annoying to me. When I am at a game and some idiot points to LF and says, 'Why is that wall so high?" it makes me want to scream. I can't stand the pink hats at the bars. What exposure do you have to these people? If the pink hats take their money and go elsewhere, are you going to step up and come to the games? Or do you think the fan base just needs a good cleansing to strengthen the species of Red Sox fans? I really don't have a clue what you mean by this remark or how it would be good for the Red Sox.

[BSN07]

 

Youk -1B

Pedroia- 2B

Scutaro- SS

Lowrie- 3B

Salty-C

Kalish/Cameron -OF

Drew- OF

Ellsbury- OF

Ortiz- DH

 

That would be a failure. There is no other way to paint it or spin it. However, I don't think the FO will field that lineup.

 

I already stated earlier that if the above was the Sox lineup going into next season, I still believe they would be competitive. The Sox don't need to have a top 5 talent at every position to be competitive. The rotation should be good. And as long as they add a couple BP arms they could be fine. you never know. They kay hold onto their pieces now and make a move for Agon at the deadline when his price comes down. Which it will if the trading team is only guaranteed a couple months of his service. All I'm saying is we can't judge the tam on just the moves the make over the next couple months. It's bigger picture, it's the moves the make over the next 12 months that will set this team up for it's next big run.

[BSN07]

The more I think about this line the more I am baffled by it. Don't you live in the land of wooden shoes? Pink hats are annoying to me. When I am at a game and some idiot points to LF and says' date=' 'Why is that wall so high?" it makes me want to scream. I can't stand the pink hats at the bars. What exposure do you have to these people? If the pink hats take their money and go elsewhere, are you going to step up and come to the games? Or do you think the fan base just needs a good cleansing to strengthen the species of Red Sox fans? I really don't have a clue what you mean by this remark or how it would be good for the Red Sox.[/quote']

 

I hate the Pink Hats. And I get a lot of them here. Yankee ones too. You ask them who is playing LF for the Yanks or setting up for Mo and their like "duhhh umm Jeter?". If the Pink Hats take their money elewhere, there will be people to replace it. The Red Sox brand is too strong not to. Does that mean they will sell out every game fromm here to oblivion? Umm probably not. But the team should have no issue with fan support.

 

After extended winning period all fan base have to deal with the clingers, band wagoners, pink hats. I think every now and then it's good to shake these types lose. I can't stand people who are fans because it's some sort of fad or something. The phrase "For the greater good" come to my mind when thinking of purging the lot of them

[Palodios]

I think the bridge year idea needs to end. We need to stop thinking about future big FA, and start thinking of current ones. I strongly believe this team should go big, but hold onto its future talent at the same time. I think that this "Waiting for Agon" plan should stop being this team's priority, and I think we should stop assuming Rizzo and Kelly are turning into Pujols and Johnson. Agon is a career .875 hitter. Fielder is a big oaf who won't be worth his contract. Quite frankly, both of them barely make the top 10 in quality 1B. Crawford is here, and now, and the Yankees don't want him.

[ORS]

It's not the pink hats they should worry about. When a fan of over 40 years who has traveled around the country to support the team' date=' including 7 straight years of Spring Training, is not excited about the upcoming season, they have a problem. The diehards like me pony up their dough early on. Their financial guys like that. It projects to having a good season financially. IMO, the Sox will seek to make a big acquisition before tickets go on sale in December.[/quote']

To be fair, when they find out that it's not so much a lack of excitement overall, and it's more of a, "not as excited as when they had Manny and Ortiz at the height of their games" (your words...paraphrased), they may just shrug their shoulders. That tandem was historically "exciting", and that type of duo does not come around often. It's like expecting them to get the next Pedro, when a guy like that comes along about every 30 years, and there are 29 other teams trying to do it. Sometimes, it just isn't in the cards.

[BSN07]

I think the bridge year idea needs to end. We need to stop thinking about future big FA' date=' and start thinking of current ones. I strongly believe this team should go big, but hold onto its future talent at the same time. I think that this "Waiting for Agon" plan should stop being this team's priority, and I think we should stop assuming Rizzo and Kelly are turning into Pujols and Johnson. Agon is a career .875 hitter. Fielder is a big oaf who won't be worth his contract. Quite frankly, both of them barely make the top 10 in quality 1B. Crawford is here, and now, and the Yankees don't want him.[/quote']

 

How is Agon barely a top 10 quality 1B?

 

Please name 9 better.

[BSN07]

To be fair' date=' when they find out that it's not so much a lack of excitement overall, and it's more of a, "not as excited as when they had Manny and Ortiz at the height of their games" (your words...paraphrased), they may just shrug their shoulders. That tandem was historically "exciting", and that type of duo does not come around often. It's like expecting them to get the next Pedro, when a guy like that comes along about every 30 years, and there are 29 other teams trying to do it. Sometimes, it just isn't in the cards.[/quote']

 

There is a reason the were compared to Gehrig and Ruth. It had been since them that a 3-4 tandem had caused so much destruction. To think the Sox are just going to walk out and sign a check and get that back is just crazy.

[Palodios]

How is Agon barely a top 10 quality 1B?

 

Please name 9 better.

 

Pujols, Cabrera, Texiera, Votto, Youkilis, Konerko, Bautista...

[BSN07]

Pujols' date=' Cabrera, Texiera, Votto, Youkilis, Konerko, Bautista...[/quote']

 

Pujols yes, Cabrera yes, Tex I would say is =, Votto after 1 break out year hitting in the band box that the Reds play in? please. Youk? I would bet most here consider Agon the more complete hitter. I could be wrong though. Konerko? LOL he' like 35 years old. Bautista? You mean the RF that had 1 good season? You are going to have to better then that.

 

And you still have a couple to go.

 

I like you Palo, your a good guy to have around the board. But this might be the worst/dumbest statement you have ever made. Agon is easily a top 5 1B in the whole league.

[ORS]

I think the bridge year idea needs to end. We need to stop thinking about future big FA' date=' and start thinking of current ones. I strongly believe this team should go big, but hold onto its future talent at the same time. I think that this "Waiting for Agon" plan should stop being this team's priority, and I think we should stop assuming Rizzo and Kelly are turning into Pujols and Johnson. Agon is a career .875 hitter. Fielder is a big oaf who won't be worth his contract. Quite frankly, both of them barely make the top 10 in quality 1B. Crawford is here, and now, and the Yankees don't want him.[/quote']

.800/.943 home/road split. Petco hitters should never be judged on the aggregate number.

 

I haven't come out on this yet, but I hate the idea of them signing Crawford for the amount of money and time it is likely going to take. He's Kenny Lofton lite. If they can get him to agree to 5 years or less, I'd be OK with it, but I suspect, due the fact that he's turning 29, he's looking at 6 and 7 year deals.

[BSN07]

.800/.943 home/road split. Petco hitters should never be judged on the aggregate number.

 

I haven't come out on this yet, but I hate the idea of them signing Crawford for the amount of money and time it is likely going to take. He's Kenny Lofton lite. If they can get him to agree to 5 years or less, I'd be OK with it, but I suspect, due the fact that he's turning 29, he's looking at 6 and 7 year deals.

 

I agree. I don't see that large of a distance in what he produces compared to what Ellsbury produces. And when you take $ into account, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

I think Crawford has a little more pop in his bat then Lofton. But I'd be worried abut all those years on the turf in TB. Look at Vlad. He's 34 and runs like he is 44. That playing surface take a massive toll. And when you consider Crawfords biggest weapon being speed, he is unlikely to live up to his to the deal it will take to sign him.

[Palodios]

.800/.943 home/road split. Petco hitters should never be judged on the aggregate number.

 

I haven't come out on this yet, but I hate the idea of them signing Crawford for the amount of money and time it is likely going to take. He's Kenny Lofton lite. If they can get him to agree to 5 years or less, I'd be OK with it, but I suspect, due the fact that he's turning 29, he's looking at 6 and 7 year deals.

 

Agon is good. I'm not saying he's not good. But what I'm saying is that for what he is, we shouldn't spend two years in a bridge state waiting for him. Were it Pujols, I'd wait five.

 

Do you really see Crawford getting close to a Holliday deal?

[a700hitter]

If your not excited about the upcoming season that's a you problem. You would think after 40 years of die hard fan ship' date=' this would be an odd time to start questioning your interest. I mean especially considering the last 7 years has given you 2 WS Championships and a team that is competitive almost every season. Did you just forget about the 30+ previous years of agony over 1 marginal season? Or a couple missed FA's? [/quote']You young people think rooting for the Sox in the 60's, 70's and 80's was all agony. There were disappointments, but us old guys like me and Spud are not some masochists that like to suffer. Before 1967, the franchise was deader than today's KC Royals or Pirates. In 1967, the franchise was renewed, and it became more and more successful throughout the ensuing years. The team went from a perennial below .500 team to a team that always played better than .500 and that was frequently in contention into late September. That was fun, exhilarating. The team developed all sorts of superstars, and year after year they were exciting to watch. An OF of Yaz, Reggie Smith, Tony C. and Ken Harrelson was fun to watch. So was Yaz, Smith and Harper, and Lynn, Rice and Evans, and Rice, Armas and Evans. That was not agony. As a life long Red Sox fan, last year's OF was an embarrassment.

 

The only dark period that I remember in Red Sox history was the early 90's -- the Butch Hobson years. Although the team improved in the mid to late 90's, they fell far behind the arch-rival Yankees. The 90's were the lost decade for me. Before 1991, I had seen the Sox in 2 World Series and the Yankees in 4. Over the 24 years from 1967 to 1990, the Red Sox were always competitive with the Yankees and many seasons they were clearly dominant in the rivalry. There were few, if any, seasons when the Yankees were clearly better than or dominant against the Sox. It's the guys like Spud and me who have been patient. We have seen many talented, competitive teams go unrewarded. It's very hard to win it all. When a team has a talented core of players that are good enough to make a championship run and the ownership clearly has the resources to fill in the missing pieces, I get frustrated when they don't. I don't like when they are satisfied with just being competitive. If you don't seize the opportunities you get, years will pass and there will be no Championship.

 

Please don't talk to me about how many years we make the playoffs. I've seen post season before this ownership group-- 1967, 1975, 1986, 1988, 1990 and 1995. In each of those years, the Red Sox had to be the best team in the Division or the League. The Yankees finished behind us in every one of those seasons. Under this ownership, we have won one divisional title, and each and every other year we have gotten into the playoffs with the Wild Card. We have finished ahead of the Yanks twice. The World Series titles have been great, but let's not make it sound like us old timers were suffering for decades. Between 1967 and 1990 we more than held our own against the Yankees. Since 1996, the Yankees have clearly been the more dominant team. We started to grab the upper hand after the 2004 ALCS, but after 2008, we relinquished dominance back to the Yankees. It's time to take it back. Despite what you think, I am not used to playing second fiddle to the Yankees. That has been a phenomenon since 1996, including this decade, not the first 24 years that I was a Sox fan.

[Palodios]

I changed my mind. You know what this team needs to do? Say f*** Crawford, and get Lee.

[Dojji]

We started to grab the upper hand after the 2004 ALCS' date=' but after 2008, we relinquished dominance back to the Yankees. It's time to take it back. [/quote']

 

Because the Yankees are just going to relinquish it.

 

I'm sorry, but since 1996 the Yankees have their crap together and with free agent prices skyrocketing out of control even the big markets aren't competitive with NYY in getting the guys they want anymore. Something's going to have to change pretty fundamentally about the way the league does free agency before NYY is going to fall out of contention again. We're spending an obscene amount of money and still getting radically outspent. Yeah, it's possible to be outspent and still dominate another team but let's not pretend that it's what usually happens, ok?

 

Basically for even the Sox to be able to stand toe to toe with NYY anymore in a given year there's going to need to be a salary cap. Even in the years when they don't outspend the second biggest spender (us) by half again as much as we spend, the fact that they have the capability to do so when they decide to is still unchanged. The only thing that has kept us competitive with NYY is the fact that they don't spend their huge all that well. IF we start throwing around all our money looking for short term gains, we'll go the same way and lose our last advantage.

[a700hitter]

To be fair' date=' when they find out that it's not so much a lack of excitement overall, and it's more of a, "not as excited as when they had Manny and Ortiz at the height of their games" (your words...paraphrased), they may just shrug their shoulders. That tandem was historically "exciting", and that type of duo does not come around often. It's like expecting them to get the next Pedro, when a guy like that comes along about every 30 years, and there are 29 other teams trying to do it. Sometimes, it just isn't in the cards.[/quote']I don't disagree. I always said that we might never see that kind of show again in our lifetime, but there are other game changing exciting players out there. I happen to believe that Crawford is one of them. We are short on game-changing type stars and we have money. It's time to go balls to the will to get Crawford and build around him. Build a speed team with power.

[a700hitter]

There is a reason the were compared to Gehrig and Ruth. It had been since them that a 3-4 tandem had caused so much destruction. To think the Sox are just going to walk out and sign a check and get that back is just crazy.

We got Manny by writing the biggest check at the time. It set the market. It also jump started the building of a potent offensive machine. We are not going to get that back from growing kids on the farm.

[BSN07]

You young people think rooting for the Sox in the 60's, 70's and 80's was all agony. There were disappointments, but us old guys like me and Spud are not some masochists that like to suffer. Before 1967, the franchise was deader than today's KC Royals or Pirates. In 1967, the franchise was renewed, and it became more and more successful throughout the ensuing years. The team went from a perennial below .500 team to a team that always played better than .500 and that was frequently in contention into late September. That was fun, exhilarating. The team developed all sorts of superstars, and year after year they were exciting to watch. An OF of Yaz, Reggie Smith, Tony C. and Ken Harrelson was fun to watch. So was Yaz, Smith and Harper, and Lynn, Rice and Evans, and Rice, Armas and Evans. That was not agony. As a life long Red Sox fan, last year's OF was an embarrassment.

 

The only dark period that I remember in Red Sox history was the early 90's -- the Butch Hobson years. Although the team improved in the mid to late 90's, they fell far behind the arch-rival Yankees. The 90's were the lost decade for me. Before 1991, I had seen the Sox in 2 World Series and the Yankees in 4. Over the 24 years from 1967 to 1990, the Red Sox were always competitive with the Yankees and many seasons they were clearly dominant in the rivalry. There were few, if any, seasons when the Yankees were clearly better than or dominant against the Sox. It's the guys like Spud and me who have been patient. We have seen many talented, competitive teams go unrewarded. It's very hard to win it all. When a team has a talented core of players that are good enough to make a championship run and the ownership clearly has the resources to fill in the missing pieces, I get frustrated when they don't. I don't like when they are satisfied with just being competitive. If you don't seize the opportunities you get, years will pass and there will be no Championship.

 

Please don't talk to me about how many years we make the playoffs. I've seen post season before this ownership group-- 1967, 1975, 1986, 1988, 1990 and 1995. In each of those years, the Red Sox had to be the best team in the Division or the League. The Yankees finished behind us in every one of those seasons. Under this ownership, we have won one divisional title, and each and every other year we have gotten into the playoffs with the Wild Card. We have finished ahead of the Yanks twice. The World Series titles have been great, but let's not make it sound like us old timers were suffering for decades. Between 1967 and 1990 we more than held our own against the Yankees. Since 1996, the Yankees have clearly been the more dominant team. We started to grab the upper hand after the 2004 ALCS, but after 2008, we relinquished dominance back to the Yankees. It's time to take it back. Despite what you think, I am not used to playing second fiddle to the Yankees. That has been a phenomenon since 1996, including this decade, not the first 24 years that I was a Sox fan.

 

Oh God Butch Hobson LOL That was right about the time I really got into the Red Sox. So from what your saying, it looks as though I got right in when they where at their worst. I can remember watching Bob Zupzic and Bill Hatcher in the OF LOL God those where some awful teams

 

I wasn't saying it was all bad. I know there where good teams and players before I was able to see them. I'm just saying for all the Club went through in those years, it seems like the last decade has been pretty good to Sox fans and it shouldn't be forgotten over a couple bridge years. And yes this season might be a "bridge" type year again. But they should still be competitive regardless.

[Emmz]

Pujols' date=' Cabrera, Texiera, Votto, Youkilis, Konerko, Bautista...[/quote']

 

I'd say he's at least as good, if not slightly over Tex and Youk, pretty close though. Konerko? Bautista? Lolwut

[Palodios]

I'd say he's at least as good' date=' if not slightly over Tex and Youk, pretty close though. Konerko? Bautista? Lolwut[/quote']

 

Konerko/Bautista had better OPSs. The point is, on any given season, he's top 10, not top 5.

[BSN07]

2010 WAR

 

Agon- 5.3

Konerko- 4.2

Bautista- 6.9(OF/3B )

Pujols- 7.3

Teixeria- 3.5(his big 2009 was good for a 5.4)

Youkilis- 4.2

Fielder- 4.1

Howard- 2.0

Votto- 7.4

 

I was looking for OPS+ on fangraphs. Am I just missing it or is it better to look elsewhere. I would wager his OPS+ numbers are better then most.

[Palodios]

You missed Cabrera, Youk was injured, Morneau was injured, Howard was injured, Tex had an off-season. There are just so many big names at 1B. But the thing you're really missing.. That would be the point. He's good, but not THAT good. You don't spend two or three whole seasons waiting for him while putting your team on hold.

[a700hitter]

You missed Cabrera' date=' Youk was injured, Morneau was injured, Howard was injured, Tex had an off-season. There are just so many big names at 1B. But the thing you're really missing.. That would be the point. He's good, but not THAT good. You don't spend two or three whole seasons waiting for him while putting your team on hold.[/quote']

...and there is no guarantee that you get him. If the whole world knows that the Sox are waiting on him, the price will be very high.

[Rdsxmbnt]

 

1. Cried like a women when they dealt Hanley for Beckett and Lowell. Infact he cried so hard that he retired for about a year and Josh and Mike gave it to him good in 07 good times!!

We won a WS in large part because of these guys

2.Mike Cameron LOL. As the MNF crew says CMON MAN!!

Its a two year contract for fairly small money, not a big deal

3. Marco stone hands Scutaro what a f*** up he is defensivly.

Again he's a two year contract and was adequate in his first year

4. The Tiexiera fiasco his boy Lars Anderson looks like a stud these days. That blunder burried us good ehh?

You're a dumbass if you think Lars Anderson had anything to do with signing Teixiera

5. Jarod Saltalamacchia Mr Mackey Sasser himself.

He was traded for two insignificant prospects and has only had 19 AB. Did I mention he's 25 and a catcher? Meaning offensively catchers develop later

6. Scott Atchinson was horrible then they re-sign him? What the f***edy f***nuts is going on on Yawkee way gentleman?

He's a mop-up man, keep your pants on

7. Jason Place where is he these days? I'm still waiting!

He was a bust, every GM drafts a lot of busts. In fact the MAJORITY of picks are busts

8. John Lackey and his robust Fenway era. f***.. just f***.

It has been one year, look at his track record

9. Multi year deal for shakey Wakey. You kidddin' me?

We have a ONE year team option every year, no multi-year deal was signed

10. Eric Gagne. Shady.

Bad trade, not every one works out

11. John Smoltz. Twin City stuff in Boston just won't fly.

Was signed for one year at little cost, didn't work out, move on

12. Rocco Baldelli. Clutch move

You really have to dig into the BENCH moves?

13. Kotchman shakes head.

Gave up basically nothing for him, a below average 1B come on

14. Ryan Kalish/Cameron platoon Jed Lowrie at the hot corner Mackey Sasser catching. Is this Boston? Or am I in Oakland?

You don't watch much baseball do you? Lowrie was awesome, Kalish is a ROOKIE. "Mackey Sasser" had 19 AB...

15. Pitching and defense!! Run prevention!! Great defense we will catch everything! But we will not bring back our best defender in Alex Gonzalez at SS instead what we will do is pay more money for a utility man.

Alex Gonzalez blows. Also, f*** you

[ORS]

Overall, good stuff, but the team did terminate the never-ending option with Wake last offseason and signed him to a two year deal.