2010 Trade Deadline

[example1]

I figured we needed a more specific 2010 deadline thread, solely dedicated to the topic.

 

The common wisdom is that the Sox aren't going to be huge movers at the trade deadline. They were aggressive in 2009 by getting Martinez and, when healthy, the 2010 team is arguably as good as the 2009 team.

 

By Ex W-L they are almost exactly the same at this point as they were in the 2009 season. In 2009 they were in first place; in 2010 they are 3 games out of the wildcard. Seems like as good a time as any to make a move to improve this team because I think they have a legit shot to win it all. The Red Sox are second in OBP and first in SLG. All seems well on the offensive end.

 

However, does anyone see them agreeing to longterm contracts with Ortiz or Beltre for 2011 and beyond for anything other than a really good $$ club deal? Does anyone see Ortiz or Beltre taking below Free Agent $? We've been down this trail before and it usually ends up with draft picks (if Type A). Honestly, I don't see them extending themselves at all on either (no 2011 option for Ortiz, then an offer like $14m over two years).

 

In other words, the team needs to be at least looking for a longterm corner IF/DH option now because we're in the "bridge period" and lack the equivalent talent to what they were hoping to get with Teixeira. They acknowledged they needed it then and they still need it now.

 

We haven't talked much about Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder, Adam Dunn, Hanley Ramirez, etc., for the past few months. What would an aggressive move on a longterm "cornerstone" player mean for this team? Adrian Gonzalez is probably safe in San Diego, but Fielder could probably be had, and so could Dunn. Hanley is the name that is always out there too, but he seems less likely for obvious reasons. Are there others?

 

Would those guys--some of the best in the game--even be upgrades? Beltre and Ortiz have combined for 5.4 WAR this season, but can they sustain their pace?

 

I'm skeptical of both and would look to upgrade for the longterm if possible even if it kind of derailed the 2010 team a bit.

[Palodios]

Ortiz is too inconsistent for a long term contract. He also is available at a huge home town discount. I see the Sox treating him like the Yankees treat Andy Pettite now-- lots of short term incentive-laden contracts.

 

I agree on finding a corner infielder, but I could live with the Sox being a seller this year if it meant getting another of the elite hitters. Everyone sounds skeptical when I say trade Beltre/Vmart, but if they do and get a A-gon/Fielder type out of the deal, the team wins in the long run. The problem is that if you go down the list of guys we'd want at 1B (Votto, Cabrera, Morneau, Pujols, Agon, Texeira) are untouchable right now. Fielder is probably the only one available--and I'm skeptical about him. People have mentioned getting a replacement at 3B, but quite frankly none of the available guys will be a better combo than Vmart/Youk.

 

That leads me to think it might be best to sign Vmart long term, as a one year fill-in at 1B.When the big bats hit the open market in 2011, drop Ortiz, slide Vmart to DH/occasional catcher. Best case scenario Lars or Lavernway turn gold, and they don't even need to get one of those guys.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pal, there is no way they are able to move VMart or Beltre and get AdGon. Now, they could get a prospect load for those two, then spin those prospects off in the offseason for AdGon or Fielder, but nobody would want an expiring contract for an elite player still under contract

[Palodios]

Pal' date=' there is no way they are able to move VMart or Beltre and get AdGon. Now, they could get a prospect load for those two, then spin those prospects off in the offseason for AdGon or Fielder, but nobody would want an expiring contract for an elite player still under contract[/quote']

 

Normally I'd bite, but this post is mindnumbing. Teams make deals for expiring players all the time if they want to make a run at the playoffs. Cliff Lee sound familiar? They could very possibly spin the prospects from a contender to the Brewers now. Third Base and catcher are such generally weak positions, and Beltre/VMart are both in the top 5 of their position in the league.

 

Secondly, what do you think "untouchable" means? It means the Sox are clearly not going to get any of those guys I listed. Fielder only has one more year on his contract, and the Brewers are out, so he might be available at the right price.

[jacksonianmarch]

I should have specified. The Padres do not want VMart and Beltre for AdGon, and neither do the Brewers for Fielder

[Keeper]

The Brewers will want pitching for Fielder. Kelly would almost certainly have to be in the package to get him.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I think Fielder would be more of an offseason target. Right now our top offensive players are at 1B/3B/DH but in the offseason two of those slots are fairly open.

[Dipre]

If you wanted to part with Martinez and Beltre to get Gonzales or Fielder, you don't necessarily have to use them in a direct manner to acquire either of those players, now let me clear up first that i don't think that would be a wise thing to do, but the misconception that: A) Either is untouchable and Beltre and V-Mart couldn't be used to acquire either of them is easy to clear up.

 

You could flip Beltre and Martinez to contenders making a push (Reds, White Sox, Minnesota, among others) and then flip those prospects in a big package fitting to the wishes of either team, with Gonzales being much more expensive but not untouchable IMO, neither that scenario nor a three-team deal is unheard of, and while it probably wouldn't happen, why make it sound like it's impossible?

[Palodios]

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up, I thought I implied that, but maybe not. And sure, A-gon isn't necessarily untouchable but if you're the Padres, you're not going to give up your best hitter who is extremely cheap during a playoff run unless they get a massive package-- and since the Sox won't overpay to that extent, Agon might as well be untouchable.

[example1]

PRINCE FIELDER: .927 career OPS (tied for 13th among active players, ahead of Ortiz, Teixeira, Hanley and David Wright. He's 21st among active players in career OBP (ahead of Dunn, Utley, Posada and Ichiro) and 11th in active SLG ahead of Matt Holliday, Ken Griffey Jr, Mark Teixeira, Chipper Jones. That's pretty impressive at age 26.

 

He's another David Ortiz in many ways, just better at an earlier age. I would take a chance on moving Beltre and shifting Youk to 3B for the remainder of the season if it meant getting Fielder for an extra post-season run--unlikely to happen but I'd be fine with them moving Kelly to make it happen, as I like what I have seen from Doubront and think they can scrape together a #5-6-7 starter without too much difficulty as needed in 2011, 2012, 2013. The DH spot will probably be available next year.

 

At the worst the Sox would lose Ortiz in 2011 and would have moved Beltre so they would need a 3B again in 2011. I think many of us prefer Youkilis at 1B and think he serves the team best at that position, certainily more than Prince Fielder or David Ortiz would. DH could be primarily Fielder's, but he could occasionally play 1B so guys like Drew and possibly Martinez can slot in there over the next couple seasons.

 

It would take serious balls for Theo to move Beltre from this lineup, but that move would benefit the club immediately and longterm. Fielder is a good enough hitter to build a team around, especially at his age. The Yankees are unlikely to pursue him so there's a good chance he's on Boston's radar.

[Dojji]

Believe Fielder's still under Milwaukee's control for a couple more years. I'm not sure Fielder's on the move this deadline or even this offseason -- Milwaukee's not so bad they should be throwing away their franchise player when they do have one last longshot to compete with him.

[Palodios]

Agreed(with example). I would think Fielder would be a short term solution at 1B, giving Ortiz another shot at DH and eventually Fielder would move into the DH spot as he ages.

 

Fielder has a year and a half left, last I checked. So, moveable for the right price.

[SoxSport]

avoid Fielder. His dad Cecil had the same body and lasted until he was 34, I believe.

[Palodios]

I'm skeptical too, but saying he'll break down 8 years from now isn't really helpful.

[Dojji]

Fielder would be an awesome acquisition. I'd be very enthusiastic about it if I thought it had a legitimate chance of happening.

[BoSox21]

I don't foresee this team doing any of the wheeling and dealing we've seen them do at recent trade deadlines besides maybe a bullpen arm or two. I think the way they see it, as guys start to come back from their injuries, that'll be their deadline acquisitions.

[example1]

I don't foresee this team doing any of the wheeling and dealing we've seen them do at recent trade deadlines besides maybe a bullpen arm or two. I think the way they see it' date=' as guys start to come back from their injuries, that'll be their deadline acquisitions.[/quote']

 

As guys come back they will have the team they expected to have at the beginning of the season. I don't think that's as much an addition as it is returning to normal.

 

At the beginning of the season, Theo acknowledged that they would be keeping their eyes open for longterm offense. At the time, Beltre was a questionable offensive option and Ortiz's current ability was unknown. Both of those guys have performed to the best of our expectations, but even at the best of expectations I don't think Theo was thinking of making these guys longterm parts of the team.

 

With that said, I don't know if their performance this year will be allowed to jeopardize the longterm plan, which is always where it is at in Theo's mind. With Lester and Buchholz, Bard, Pedroia, Ellsbury etc., all entering their primes, and Youkilis, Lackey and Beckett under contract moving forward, there should be many years of this team competing and they will continue needing a next-generation David Ortiz to build around until they get that guy.

 

I agree that there probably won't be a whole lot going on for this team in terms of trade deadline moves. Nobody expects anything huge. With this club and this media market, that seems like the best time to be working behind the scenes to improve this team long term. Nobody would object to this team being shaken up to acquire a Prince Fielder-type player, even if it meant that some of their current defecits weren't addressed. If they landed Fielder and neglected to get the pieces of the bullpen that they need that would be okay by me. Why overpay when it is a bullpen-sellers' market? This team still might be good enough to get to the playoff crap-shoot without selling the farm for a bullpen arm.

 

Ideally they would improve for the longterm AND get a bullpen arm (or two) and an OF, but that seems like too much to ask for.

[example1]

Believe Fielder's still under Milwaukee's control for a couple more years. I'm not sure Fielder's on the move this deadline or even this offseason -- Milwaukee's not so bad they should be throwing away their franchise player when they do have one last longshot to compete with him.

 

1) Milwaukee is pretty bad and in a division with some pretty solid clubs. If they know they're going to lose Fielder then they should be listening to offers.

2) Fielder isnt their only franchise player, they could part with him for enough of a return. I think it would have to be a heck of a return, but I bet it is possible.

[BSN07]

Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe writes that "various reports" have indicated that Boston has acquired Jack Hannahan from Seattle in exchange for either money or a player to be named later. Pawtucket Red Sox radio announcer Dan Hoard was the first to break the news via his Twitter feed.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/07/red_sox_acquire_2.html

[Spudboy]

Great move.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's infield depth. The guy started for some time in Oakland and not sure why. The guy cannot hit. He's a good glove at 3b, but he sucks with a bat in his hand

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?&articleid=1270038&format=&page=1&listingType=sox#articleFull

 

good article

[Dojji]

The Sox should sell on Beltre, and on Ortiz if he doesn't drop his multiyear deal demand. It's time to reposition for the new decade, and these are old-decade players. I'd say the same about Lowell, V-Mart and Tek if they were at all tradable (V-mart's injury obviously destroys his value).

 

I think there should be a way to deal some of our older talent without officially tanking the season. Who knows, it wouldn't be the first time a "youth injection" has salvaged an endangered season And we're going to need to radically retool next year no matter what we do, soo if our chances to make the playoffs officially become "slim" it's time to get what you can. The only position we can't replace at least somewhat is 3B, and that's assuming Lowrie can't play there.

[Yaz Sideburn]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?&articleid=1270038&format=&page=1&listingType=sox#articleFull

 

good article

 

 

you're so predictable, you're like a caricature of a yankees fan. of course you link to incoherent babble like this and call it a good article because it claims the red sox aren't a good team

[Palodios]

Dojji, I've been trying to sell the idea of trading and rebuilding, but no one wants any part of it. Considering that the team already has its rotation back in order, and in the next week Ells/Vmart will probably be back, it makes sense to see what this team can do now that its finally back together, and still in striking distance.

[Palodios]

 

you're so predictable, you're like a caricature of a yankees fan. of course you link to incoherent babble like this and call it a good article because it claims the red sox aren't a good team

 

I agree with the article, because its whats good for this team. People were clamoring for Dejesus, but he wasn't worth top prospects. It makes zero sense to spend the team's future on replacements that will only be needed for a month or two.

[Yaz Sideburn]

I agree with the article' date=' because its whats good for this team. People were clamoring for Dejesus, but he wasn't worth top prospects. It makes zero sense to spend the team's future on replacements that will only be needed for a month or two.[/quote']

 

you agree that the red sox are simply too flawed to make a run at the world series even though they'd had half their team on the dl and they still have one of the best records in baseball?

[Dojji]

We're gong to have some serious holes in this team at the end of this year. How much of our future should we be sacrificing to win now when we're not in line for a playoff berth and we have major positions to fill in the offseason? (3B, C, and possibly LF, RF and/or DH.)

[Dojji]

you agree that the red sox are simply too flawed to make a run at the world series even though they'd had half their team on the dl and they still have one of the best records in baseball?

 

I don't think that the run for the playoffs should take precedence over positioning for the future at this point. You need to take a multiyear view -- any one year can be sacrificed to put you in better position for the next several, and that's where we need to be right now.

[Palodios]

you agree that the red sox are simply too flawed to make a run at the world series even though they'd had half their team on the dl and they still have one of the best records in baseball?

 

Read the article again. The quote you're referring to:

 

The Red Sox, as currently constituted, are simply too flawed to make a serious run at the World Series

[/Quote]

 

The Red Sox offense is giving significant playing time to Lowrie/Cash/Patterson/Mcdonald. As currently constituted, the team will not win a world series. As the article says, the team needs to hope the cavalry arrives in time, instead of trying to get players to replace injured ones.