CLAY will be our ACE by years and as long as he continues to...

[JimEdHOF2009]

GROW in confidence. This is the only thing preventing him from being our ace IMO. No disrespect to Lester..or Beckett.. but Clay's arsenal is more diverse than even theirs. His 12 to 6 curve is a plus pitch. His fastball has been getting clocked at 97...so he is throwing as hard or harder than either pitcher... His changeup is Hoffman-esque....and he now has a nasty little cutter (87-89 MPH)... He has been burying that cutter in on lefties and throwing it high and in to righties who swing early thinking it is his curve...

 

The one problem Clay has is confidence. I noticed him looking over at the dugout after the Beltre error...wondering if Tito was going to pull him. He kept looking into the dugout..and Tito was just standing there... In the post-game press conference Clay admitted to looking over and not wanting Tito to come out and yank him. The guy was absolutely terrific and worked around Beltre's gaffe. I told my father last year..a game vs. the Yankees where he constantly worked out of trouble created by his infielders and held the Yankees to 2 over 6 IP that he has changed.. he has become the pitcher we all thought he could be..and it is really fun to watch him grow with each outing. mark it down..you are watching a future All-Star.

[Palodios]

The problem is that after having such a great april, the Sox have to get through a ton of great teams, and if he has two or three bad games, he could very easily fall again. That being said, this is his time to have a huge breakout year, and I fully expect it from him if he can stay cool and confident.

[RWTP24]

GROW in confidence. This is the only thing preventing him from being our ace IMO. No disrespect to Lester..or Beckett.. but Clay's arsenal is more diverse than even theirs. His 12 to 6 curve is a plus pitch. His fastball has been getting clocked at 97...so he is throwing as hard or harder than either pitcher... His changeup is Hoffman-esque....and he now has a nasty little cutter (87-89 MPH)... He has been burying that cutter in on lefties and throwing it high and in to righties who swing early thinking it is his curve...

 

The one problem Clay has is confidence. I noticed him looking over at the dugout after the Beltre error...wondering if Tito was going to pull him. He kept looking into the dugout..and Tito was just standing there... In the post-game press conference Clay admitted to looking over and not wanting Tito to come out and yank him. The guy was absolutely terrific and worked around Beltre's gaffe. I told my father last year..a game vs. the Yankees where he constantly worked out of trouble created by his infielders and held the Yankees to 2 over 6 IP that he has changed.. he has become the pitcher we all thought he could be..and it is really fun to watch him grow with each outing. mark it down..you are watching a future All-Star.

 

I said this the other day in the game forum, so be prepared to get ripped. lol

 

I agree that Buchholz could be the best pitcher on the Sox staff after this season is all said and done. I really hope he keeps it up. Lester will be a very close second. I wish Lester could get off to a much better star, but that what he has done pretty much since day one.

[ORS]

This post is almost as annoying to read, not for content but for style, as 13 y/o girls that tYpE lIkE tHiS.

[RWTP24]

This post is almost as annoying to read' date=' not for content but for style, as 13 y/o girls that tYpE lIkE tHiS.[/quote']

 

:lol::lol:

 

Be nice!

[Dojji]

Am I the only one that remembers posting stuff like this before his public meltdown in 2008?

 

All I'm saying is with a guy like Buchholz, don't count your chickens. We all know he's going to be a stud once he gets his mindset right. I'd like to hope he's well on his way and he's given signs of it, but I'll take him as he comes and lean on the veterans to get the bulk of the work done.

[RWTP24]

Am I the only one that remembers posting stuff like this before his public meltdown in 2008?

 

All I'm saying is with a guy like Buchholz, don't count your chickens. We all know he's going to be a stud once he gets his mindset right. I'd like to hope he's well on his way and he's given signs of it, but I'll take him as he comes and lean on the veterans to get the bulk of the work done.

 

His meltdown had nothing to do with him. It was his pitching coach John Farrell who tried to change his arm angle. The kid came out in his second start and throws a No No and Farrell thought it would be better to change him arm angle for some stupid reason. Now Buchholz is trying to get back to where he was when he first came into the Majors. IMO, if Farrell would have stayed away from him, he would already be one if not the best pitchers in the MLB now.

[example1]

I agree with ORS about the format of this thread. I also think that Buchholz should probably just have some useful thread dedicated to his performance and development--currently this is the best active one we have so I will use it to discuss Clay until another one is created. I'm not going to create one, I'm just sayin'.

 

Am I the only one that remembers posting stuff like this before his public meltdown in 2008?

 

All I'm saying is with a guy like Buchholz, don't count your chickens. We all know he's going to be a stud once he gets his mindset right. I'd like to hope he's well on his way and he's given signs of it, but I'll take him as he comes and lean on the veterans to get the bulk of the work done.

 

There aren't many "guys like" Buchholz as far as I'm concerned. I'm not counting chickens, but he currently has the best FB and changeup on the starting staff and he has dominated at every other level and he can make it look easy when he's on. Moving forward I will continue to expect him to perform like he has been as he regains his confidence. He's got a really live arm and his stuff is simply too good to expect anything else.

[Keeper]

As good as he can be, I don't see him overtaking Lester as the undisputed ace of the staff.

[RWTP24]

As good as he can be' date=' I don't see him overtaking Lester as the undisputed ace of the staff.[/quote']

 

Lester is the Ace??

[jacksonianmarch]

Lester, over the past 2 seasons, has been your ace. Last yr, he took a step forward to be one of the top 10 pitchers in the game with his K numbers. Buchholz has that kind of potential. I think his ceiling is what Lester was last season. But Lester, being left handed and capable of sitting at a higher velocity, is going to be better over the long haul, IMO.

 

Regardless, if Buchholz continues pitching like this, then Casey Kelly becomes a lot more expendable. I think Theo labelled him untouchable since Buch was running out of options. Now that Buch is starting to put it all together, Kelly might not be that integral to the future of the team. Regardless, a big trade is going to go down this yr.

[YeAuldBroade]

I agree that Lester is the Ace.

[JimEdHOF2009]

To those who doubted me...mainly ORS.. go f*** yourself.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Lester, over the past 2 seasons, has been your ace. Last yr, he took a step forward to be one of the top 10 pitchers in the game with his K numbers. Buchholz has that kind of potential. I think his ceiling is what Lester was last season. But Lester, being left handed and capable of sitting at a higher velocity, is going to be better over the long haul, IMO.

 

Regardless, if Buchholz continues pitching like this, then Casey Kelly becomes a lot more expendable. I think Theo labelled him untouchable since Buch was running out of options. Now that Buch is starting to put it all together, Kelly might not be that integral to the future of the team. Regardless, a big trade is going to go down this yr.

 

So where is this BIG trade Nostradumbass? Man you are going to need Dr. Andrews to remove your leg from your mouth..moron.

[Palodios]

No one doubted it. He has always had ace stuff, that's what he was projected as, but he suffered confidence issues for a long time. Everyone sort of didn't like your post because it was hard to read

[Yaz Sideburn]

Lester' date=' over the past 2 seasons, has been your ace. Last yr, he took a step forward to be one of the top 10 pitchers in the game with his K numbers. Buchholz has that kind of potential. I think his ceiling is what Lester was last season.[/quote']

 

buchholz is pitching better than lester ever has in his career and you're trying to say that how lester pitched last year is his celing. spoken like a true yankees fan

 

there's more ways to be effective than striking everyone out

[jacksonianmarch]

Notice the date captain

[Yaz Sideburn]

Notice the date captain

 

you're equally wrong regardless of when you said it. that's what happens when you try to put a ceiling on a 23 year old pitcher

[jacksonianmarch]

Wait, I thought Buchholz' ceiling is what Lester did last yr. Let's look at the two season...

 

Lester 2009- 203IP 186H 77ER 225K 64BB 3.41ERA 1.23WHIP 10.0K/9IP 2.8BB/9IP

 

Buchholz 2010- 139.1IP 114H 35ER 96K 53BB 2.26ERA 1.20WHIP 6.2K/9IP 3.4BB/9IP

 

Lester's peripherals from 2009 are similar in WHIP and MUCH better in BB/9IP and K/9IP. Buch is getting by on some seriously low BABIP. I stand by my statement. Buchholz' ceiling is what Lester did last yr. Even with his ridiculous ERA and low BABIP, he isnt there yet

[Yaz Sideburn]

Wait, I thought Buchholz' ceiling is what Lester did last yr. Let's look at the two season...

 

Lester 2009- 203IP 186H 77ER 225K 64BB 3.41ERA 1.23WHIP 10.0K/9IP 2.8BB/9IP

 

Buchholz 2010- 139.1IP 114H 35ER 96K 53BB 2.26ERA 1.20WHIP 6.2K/9IP 3.4BB/9IP

 

Lester's peripherals from 2009 are similar in WHIP and MUCH better in BB/9IP and K/9IP. Buch is getting by on some seriously low BABIP. I stand by my statement. Buchholz' ceiling is what Lester did last yr. Even with his ridiculous ERA and low BABIP, he isnt there yet

 

you're a doctor. you should be more intelligent than trying to judge a groundball pitcher by his strikeout rates

[jacksonianmarch]

2 issues with that comment...

 

1. Groundball pitchers typically have higher BAA's since a grounder has a better chance of being a hit than a flyball. Buch's is sitting at .220. So luck has a major component here.

 

2. He's not an extreme GB pitcher. His GO/AO is only 1.1. Not like he's throwin grounder after grounder out there

[ORS]

To those who doubted me...mainly ORS.. go f*** yourself.

Yes, my post was full of doubt about what you were saying.

 

See....

 

This post is almost as annoying to read, not for content but for style, as 13 y/o girls that tYpE lIkE tHiS.

Well played. You got me.

[Yaz Sideburn]

2 issues with that comment...

 

1. Groundball pitchers typically have higher BAA's since a grounder has a better chance of being a hit than a flyball. Buch's is sitting at .220. So luck has a major component here.

 

2. He's not an extreme GB pitcher. His GO/AO is only 1.1. Not like he's throwin grounder after grounder out there

 

where's the part about how k/9 is a good way to judge a groundball pitcher?

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes, my post was full of doubt about what you were saying.

 

See....

 

 

Well played. You got me.

 

yOu ArE sUcH a DoUbTiNg DoUcHeBaG

[jacksonianmarch]

where's the part about how k/9 is a good way to judge a groundball pitcher?

 

where's the part about Clay being a true groundball pitcher? The league average is in the 1.4 range for GO/AO. Buch is at 1.1

[Yaz Sideburn]

where's the part about Clay being a true groundball pitcher? The league average is in the 1.4 range for GO/AO. Buch is at 1.1

 

did you get your md from university of pheonix are do you just play dumb when it suits you? 51% of the balls hit off him are ground balls, 31% are fly balls and you're trying to say he's not a groundball pitcher

[jacksonianmarch]

He's below average in the groundball category.

[ORS]

He's below average in the groundball category.

No, he isn't. Yaz is absolutely right about you using the wrong measure. You are only looking at what gets converted into outs. His fangraphs GB/FB/LD chart shows he's above average (the bar for each is MLB average).

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/3543_P_daily_full_9_20100822.png

[Yaz Sideburn]

He's below average in the groundball category.

 

the stats say he's in the top 10 in groundball rates in the american league, but if you say otherwise, i guess i'll have to go with you. we all know how objective you are about the red sox

[jacksonianmarch]

Okay, he's barely above league average. Regardless, his peripherals are not as good as Lester's were last yr and his BABIP is way down. This likely means he isnt as good as his ERA suggests, which I dont think many people would doubt.