Jermaine Dye, is he the solution?

[rhet]

Or maybe the fact that he's 37 years old.

[RWTP24]

Cameron... one of the reasons for his s***** play in the field and in the batters box has almost certainly been from the pain of an abdominal tear.

 

Cameron has never been good at all. His career numbers are: .250 Avg., .340 OBP, .447 SLG and .788 OPS

[Jasonbay44]

Cameron has never been good at all. His career numbers are: .250 Avg.' date=' .340 OBP, .447 SLG and .788 OPS[/quote']

 

He was signed for his fielding ability with the new "run prevention" plan, but if he was having abdominal and kidney stone problem, its obvious why he has been effected defensively.

[YeAuldBroade]

Cameron has never been good at all. His career numbers are: .250 Avg.' date=' .340 OBP, .447 SLG and .788 OPS[/quote']

Except for all those gold gloves.......

[a700hitter]

He was signed for his fielding ability with the new "run prevention" plan' date=' but if he was having abdominal and kidney stone problem, its obvious why he has been effected defensively.[/quote']He has lost a step -- injuries aside.

[YeAuldBroade]

He has lost a step -- injuries aside.

You won't know that for a fact until he's healthy.

[yeszir]

In any case, a healthy cameron is better than a not healthy cameron.

 

Maybe in the same way that non rotten brussel sprouts are better than rotten bruseel sprouts, but the point still stands.

[a700hitter]

You won't know that for a fact until he's healthy.

He looked slower in the third week of Spring training and he wasn't injured then.

[yankees228]

He looked slower in the third week of Spring training and he wasn't injured then.

 

I can't guarantee that he was fully healthy, but I can vouch for a700 when he says that Cameron did not look good in ST. I was down in Fort Myers towards the middle of March, and there were two or three fly balls in one game that he looked lost and slow on. Granted, it's a small sampling, but when other people notice the same thing, and when it carries over into the regular season, some thought has to be given to the matter.

[YeAuldBroade]

You guys need to wait until Cameron is healthy before crossing him off completely or comparing him to vegetables.

 

... and no one knows for certain when he started to feel discomfort and the 3rd week of SPRING TRAINING is not a place to judge a veteran's "step".

[Spudboy]

In any case, a healthy cameron is better than a not healthy cameron.

 

Maybe in the same way that non rotten brussel sprouts are better than rotten bruseel sprouts, but the point still stands.

 

:lol:

 

Hey, wait.... I like brussel sprouts!

[RWTP24]

Except for all those gold gloves.......

 

He might have some GG, but he is not even close to that anymore. Hell, I believe he missed a line drive right at him the other day. He is just not very good any way you slice it.

[rhet]

His age is the real problem.

Just to put it into perspective, he's three years older than Ortiz.

[a700hitter]

I can't guarantee that he was fully healthy' date=' but I can vouch for a700 when he says that Cameron did not look good in ST. I was down in Fort Myers towards the middle of March, and there were two or three fly balls in one game that he looked lost and slow on. Granted, it's a small sampling, but when other people notice the same thing, and when it carries over into the regular season, some thought has to be given to the matter.[/quote']Were you at the games? That's when was there. There was one ball up the gap that had plenty of air under it. It didn't hit the wall. Ellsbury would have made the catch. Did you see his double up the gap? A couple of years ago it would have been an easy triple, but when he reached back for the extra gear turning second, it just wasn't there.

[YeAuldBroade]

He might have some GG' date=' but he is not even close to that anymore. Hell, I believe he missed a line drive right at him the other day. He is just not very good any way you slice it.[/quote']

Yes he did miss one the other day... the day after he passed a kidney stone while he was also probably in pain from the abdominal tear.

 

You guys aren't being even 1/2 realistic. STOP AND THINK!

 

An abdominal tear can sneak up on a human. It can cause discomfort for weeks/months before it's serious enough to force you to seek medical attention. My ex had a hernia very, very similar to what Cameron has and he suffered discomfort for months before it finally became obvious it wasn't a pulled or sore muscle. My ex is a martial arts instructor so there is a lot of muscular development. That muscle will hold the hernia in place longer than a flabby fat bastard so they tend to suffer with discomfort longer believing it's just soreness or something that will heal itself. Cameron could very well have come into spring training already with a hernia and not know it - and he probably did. The better shape you're in the longer you'll "Function" with an injury like this. And according to Peter Gammons Cameron was in the second best overall condition (after Ellsbury) on the team. Furthermore this type of injury is often associated with those that work out extensively.

[a700hitter]

There's a gaping hole in the Red Sox outfield, which sucked before Cameron got a gaping hole in his guts. The outfield is headed up by Drew, who will probably miss 15-20 games at a minimum. No knock on him, but that's better than average for him. Ellsbury is still out with his ribs. Hermida is a backup OF, at best for teams like the crappy Marlins. Reddick is a rookie that has potential and a very live bat, but he is still learning. Hallsucks. He shouldn't be on the team. The other 4 guys are all left-handed batters. A Right handed hitting OF with some pop is needed very badly. Dye is the obvious choice.

[Spudboy]

Yes he did miss one the other day... the day after he passed a kidney stone while he was also probably in pain from the abdominal tear.

 

You guys aren't being even 1/2 realistic. STOP AND THINK!

 

An abdominal tear can sneak up on a human. It can cause discomfort for weeks/months before it's serious enough to force you to seek medical attention. My ex had a hernia very, very similar to what Cameron has and he suffered discomfort for months before it finally became obvious it wasn't a pulled or sore muscle. My ex is a martial arts instructor so there is a lot of muscular development. That muscle will hold the hernia in place longer than a flabby fat bastard so they tend to suffer with discomfort longer believing it's just soreness or something that will heal itself. Cameron could very well have come into spring training already with a hernia and not know it - and he probably did. The better shape you're in the longer you'll "Function" with an injury like this. And according to Peter Gammons Cameron was in the second best overall condition (after Ellsbury) on the team. Furthermore this type of injury is often associated with those that work out extensively.

 

I can't wait for my 10,000th post!

 

I've found my Custom Title!

[Jasonbay44]

His age is the real problem.

Just to put it into perspective, he's three years older than Ortiz.

 

Ortiz and Cameron have completely different builds, not seeing the comparison here, I get the point that Cameron is old, but comparing him to Ortiz makes no sense.

 

 

There is no way to tell if Cameron has lost a step when he has been injured for what appears the whole year thus far, if he comes off DL and still looks slow, then Ill admit he has lost a step, but not when he has been playing injured.

[rhet]

Ortiz and Cameron have completely different builds, not seeing the comparison here, I get the point that Cameron is old, but comparing him to Ortiz makes no sense.

 

 

There is no way to tell if Cameron has lost a step when he has been injured for what appears the whole year thus far, if he comes off DL and still looks slow, then Ill admit he has lost a step, but not when he has been playing injured.

 

All of which is legitimate if he wasn't 37 years old. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of another 37 year old who was signed to a free agent contract to be a regular defensive center fielder. Anybody come to mind?

[yankees228]

Were you at the games? That's when was there. There was one ball up the gap that had plenty of air under it. It didn't hit the wall. Ellsbury would have made the catch. Did you see his double up the gap? A couple of years ago it would have been an easy triple' date=' but when he reached back for the extra gear turning second, it just wasn't there.[/quote']

 

When I go down to ST, I mostly see the Yankees, whether it's in Tampa or in other cities. However, I go to a handful of games that aren't involving the Yankees, and one of them was a Red Sox's game. It was March 15th against Baltimore. They lost 8-4, Wakefield pitched. Were you there?

 

Anyway, yeah, in that game there were a couple balls, one in particular, that Cameron looked really poor on. It was certainly something that caught my eye, because I wasn't expecting it.

[Jasonbay44]

All of which is legitimate if he wasn't 37 years old. I'm wracking my brain trying to think of another 37 year old who was signed to a free agent contract to be a regular defensive center fielder. Anybody come to mind?

No, most teams, in fact almost every team, has a young, athletic, fast center fielder. Which is why I don't understand why Ellsbury wasn't in center with Cameron left to start the season. If Cameron was in left, even if he lost a step, he would still be an elite defender and still provide the Sox with a great defensive outfield.

 

When CF's get older they usually move to right field or left field, which it was odd for me to hear Cameron had a great UZR last year in center for the Brewers,

[RWTP24]

He was signed for his fielding ability with the new "run prevention" plan' date=' but if he was having abdominal and kidney stone problem, its obvious why he has been effected defensively.[/quote']

 

If you can't score runs, you are not going to win. Last time I checked, the Sox have been making a lot of errors on top of not being able to score runs. That is a bad combination.

[Jasonbay44]

If you can't score runs' date=' you are not going to win. Last time I checked, the Sox have been making a lot of errors on top of not being able to score runs. That is a bad combination.[/quote']

 

I wasn't saying it was working, I was just mentioning he was signed for his glove, because it was part of the Red Sox plan coming into the season.

[RWTP24]

I wasn't saying it was working' date=' I was just mentioning he was signed for his glove, because it was part of the Red Sox plan coming into the season.[/quote']

 

Aww, I got yea.

 

Did anyone really think that was going to work? I have been saying all offseason; this was going to be a hard year to watch. I thought these where dumb pickups sense day one.

[TheKilo]

No' date=' no, no! Not signing Cameron and Scutaro would have been even better, but for some reason Theo signed these guys. In my opinion, there were better options out there. The Sox have NO hitting at all. The Sox are 0-30 with runners in scoring position in the last few games. Papi needs to be released and Theo needs to think how he can make some trades so the Sox can just hang around and hope the Rays slide way back. I would be shocked if they kept this team and they made the playoffs. I just do not see it happening at all. Yankees, Rays, Twins, Texas and I am sure I am missing one or two are better than the Sox are; therefore, the wild card is out of the picture.[/quote']

 

What options were there, oh wise one?

[TheKilo]

The Sox have a consistently solid lineup all the way through, with what is probably the best pitching in baseball, and what is one of the best defenses in baseball. This is just before the season on paper kinda stuff, but if you think about it, they can't continue to underachieve like this all season. I know it's a logical fallacy, but at the same time, it's only logical that they'd rebound.

 

It's 10 games into the season, I'd wait until at least half the season was up before saying that we have no chance.

 

As far as my "other favorite team" goes, that's beside the point really. We have mediocre pitching really, Liriano was never expected to pitch as well as he has so far, Pavano looked like he was the same way, then he gets rocked. Baker got knocked pretty good on opening day.

 

I never really sweat it until about half a season's up.

 

What happens if the Sox are sitting at 41-40 at the halfway point and are ~8 games out of a playoff spot?

 

They don't have that long to wait. They need to be proactive....I think if this doesn't turn around by mid-May Theo's going to have to do something drastic. I hope that doesn't mean emptying the farm system for Gonzalez but it very well might.

[a700hitter]

How would he know what the options were? None of us do. That doesn't mean that there were no better options. We do know that this is not a good situation. When healthy our outfield is average. We have a logjam of players at first and third base. We have two terrible defensive catchers and a so-so bullpen. The FO is accountable for this predicament. They are not victims of the lack of better options.

[Emmz]

What happens if the Sox are sitting at 41-40 at the halfway point and are ~8 games out of a playoff spot?

 

They don't have that long to wait. They need to be proactive....I think if this doesn't turn around by mid-May Theo's going to have to do something drastic. I hope that doesn't mean emptying the farm system for Gonzalez but it very well might.

 

That's understood, I know what you mean, but it's only 10 games in. Obviously you have to try to make some adjustments, but is Youk gonna keep hitting this poorly? Not just him, everyone who we know that has capability of hitting so much better than they are, are they going to keep hitting like this? I don't think so. That's something that the FO wasn't counting on either. Statistically speaking this team should be much better than it has been playing. Not statistically this year, but last year/past years.

 

I just think the panic would be a little more legit if it were even 50 games into the season. But it's been 2 weeks.

[Dipre]

They scored runs tonight, because parts of the lineup that weren't supposed to completely suck (Martinez, Youk) but were sucking didin't suck tonight. No matter what some Yankee fans will tell you, it's not realistic to expect a team to win when half the lineup is slumping horribly. The offense is not as potent as in years past, but it's not as bad as it looked for the last week or so.

 

I believe the saying goes "A team is never as good as it looks during a prolonged winning streak or as bad as it looks during a prolonged losing streak".

[jacksonianmarch]

you got a 2 run error from Hamilton and a lifelong scrub drove in 3 runs. You won on a fluke