Red Sox Spring Training thread

[Dipre]

^Such is the way of the pink hat.

[riverside sluggers]

Damn

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/assets_c/2010/03/wfla_precip_fl.fullsize-thumb-585x438-6094.jpg

[J-Beck]

Damn

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/assets_c/2010/03/wfla_precip_fl.fullsize-thumb-585x438-6094.jpg

 

Yeah I was hoping to listen to it on the radio, but that storm put a damper on my plans.

[Dipre]

Adrian Beltre on why he signed with the Red Sox:

 

“I thought the team had a real good opportunity to win the World Series. I focus on the team, not the place I’m playing,” he said. “I had an early offer from Philadelphia, so… I don’t play for numbers. I don’t focus on numbers.”

 

 

Broken english, but great answer.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the Red Sox are tied for the 5th best offensive team in baseball... then its a good thing to say the offense is the weak point' date=' huh?[/quote']

 

I have said it before and I will say it again. The sox lost their margin for inconsistency with Bay gone. Now, every player in the lineup must put up something close to their career norms. Any injury or any down yr by anyone in the lineup and they'll go from top 10 offense to middle of the pack. And in their ballpark, middle of the pack isnt good enough.

 

They are going to hit at home. Their offensive numbers are always inflated at Fenway. The sox problem over the past 1-2 seasons is that their offense doesnt play well outside of Fenway. With Bay being gone and Lowell out of the starting lineup, the team will probably have the same problem. Especially since they replaced two pretty reliable bats with two guys who are inferior AND less predictable offensively.

[Spudboy]

I'm grabbing my popcorn now. This should be good.

[jacksonianmarch]

Its okay Spudboy. Imperial/Dutchy is gone, so I think cooler heads will prevail.

 

Saying that the sox offense won't be worse is ludicrous. Saying that they havent lost some consistency and have had a problem on the road the past few yrs is just flat out incorrect. The biggest Red Sox question will be, can they hit enough? The pitching should be solid, the defense should be really good. Can the offense hit enough for the pitching to win them 90-95 games. I think it will be. But I do not think that this offense will be a top 5, and might be on the back end of the top 10 when it is all said and done.

[riverside sluggers]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The sox lost their margin for inconsistency with Bay gone. Now, every player in the lineup must put up something close to their career norms. Any injury or any down yr by anyone in the lineup and they'll go from top 10 offense to middle of the pack. And in their ballpark, middle of the pack isnt good enough.

 

They are going to hit at home. Their offensive numbers are always inflated at Fenway. The sox problem over the past 1-2 seasons is that their offense doesnt play well outside of Fenway. With Bay being gone and Lowell out of the starting lineup, the team will probably have the same problem. Especially since they replaced two pretty reliable bats with two guys who are inferior AND less predictable offensively.

 

I love Bay... but what youre saying is that its the same thing as the Cardinals losing Pujols

[jacksonianmarch]

How did you gather that? If the Cardinals lost Pujols, they'd fall into the back third of the league in offense. I am talking about the sox slipping down from the #2 spot to the #9 spot. I just dont see how this is arguable. The Sox offense got worse, their pitching and defense got better. I dont think that is really debatable, at all

[Dipre]

So what you're saying is that an injury to an everyday player should be detrimental to the Sox' offensive production?

 

I had no idea.

 

So i have a question. Could an injury to Robinson Cano, Alex Rodriguez or Mark Teixeira be detrimental to the Yankees' offensive production?

[riverside sluggers]

How did you gather that? If the Cardinals lost Pujols' date=' they'd fall into the back third of the league in offense. I am talking about the sox slipping down from the #2 spot to the #9 spot. I just dont see how this is arguable. The Sox offense got worse, their pitching and defense got better. I dont think that is really debatable, at all[/quote']

 

Well it is debatable, because I dont see this team as having a bad offensive lineup. No they wont be a la 2003. But its foolish for opposing pitchers to think "ah yeah nothing but easy street here"

[Dipre]

Well it is debatable' date=' because I dont see this team as having a bad offensive lineup. No they wont be a la 2003. But its foolish for opposing pitchers to think "ah yeah nothing but easy street here"[/quote']

 

A "Down year" by anyone other than Kevin Youkilis or Dustin Pedroia is easily fixable via trade. It's simply not as big an issue as Dr. Doomsday here is trying to make it sound.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think we are all saying the same thing here, just with different verbage.

 

1. The Sox are not the same offensive lineup as they have been in recent yrs

2. They are relying on some players to be consistent when their histories show that they are anything but

3. They lost their biggest power threat and didnt replace him with someone of similar ability at the dish.

 

If everything breaks right, then they are a top 5 offense easily. But that entails Papi reversing Father Time, Scutaro proving that last yr wasnt a complete fluke, Beltre proving that last yr was a fluke and actually playing better than his SafeCo numbers, etc. Those are a lot of variables. And when Lowell gets moved, which I see happening in about 2 weeks, the sox will lose any of their redundancy offensively.

 

If those guys falter, it will create a black hole in a lineup that isnt built to be a funnel to the middle of the order, but is built as being tough outs in spots 1-9. The flow of the lineup is more important to the Sox than ever. In the past, they would just put guys around Papi and Manny who could work the pitchers and get on base. Now, without a true blue HOF level basher in the lineup, the sox need to have consistency throughout the lineup. Losing that consistency in any spot will be much bigger for the sox than it would be for a team like NY. NY has reverted to the Sox theory of 2003. 2 HOF caliber offensive players in the center of the lineup and a well oiled machine around them. But those two guys could carry them for long stretches of time due to their overall offensive performance. For the sox, they just cannot match them.

 

But everyone gets sidetracked when I make a comment here. The sox offense slipped IMO and anything that goes awry will cause it to slip much further. The question shouldnt be "how far did the Sox fall offensively?" The question should be, "Can they hit just enough to give their stellar rotation the runs needed to win consistently." I think that answer is yes. I just have a feeling that the optimistic offensive minded fans might be disappointed this yr. A lot more 3-2 games than the 8-7's IMO

[Dipre]

Beltre doesn't need to improve on his Safeco numbers, for one, a 25 HR, 30 2B year with a BA around .265 is good enough. No one is expecting Scutaro to repeat 2009, but to play to his slightly above-league average offensive line. The only real question mark in this lineup is David Ortiz, and he's actually the easiest hitter to replace. It's really that simple.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ortiz isnt THAT easy to replace, though, depending on your team's expectation for him. He's easily replaceable in terms of a body in a spot since it's the DH spot. But if the sox need to get 30HR and 100RBI out of that slot, then replacing him with that kind of player isnt very easy.

[riverside sluggers]

They dont need him to have a 30/100 type season. Hes not the 3 or even 4 hitter anymore. Youkilis last season basically missed a months worth of games, and he was still on the cusp of a 30/100 season. And V-Mart should be good for 20-25 HRs and 115 +/- RBIs. Id say they should be keeping tabs on still current FA Jermaine Dye. Plus Adam Dunn is in his contract year for the Nats. Cleveland isnt expect to contend much. By June if they are falling and Sox in need of a DH, would they listen to trade discussions for Russell Branyan?

[Dipre]

Ortiz isnt THAT easy to replace' date=' though, depending on your team's expectation for him. He's easily replaceable in terms of a body in a spot since it's the DH spot. But if the sox need to get 30HR and 100RBI out of that slot, then replacing him with that kind of player isnt very easy.[/quote']

 

He's not the three or four hitter anymore. Finding a defenseless bat to DH is not difficult at all.

[jacksonianmarch]

He'll probably be the #5 hitter on the Red Sox this yr. And since the 3-4 arent huge power number guys, I think the sox are kinda relying on Ortiz to be that power guy. We shall see how the offense pans out when the season comes about, but Ortiz in the 5 hole does assume that he should put up big offensive numbers

[Dipre]

25-HR, 90+ RBI year?

 

If he doesn't provide that, the Sox have the resources to find someone who can. Specially at DH. I don't know how you can try to dispute that.

[jacksonianmarch]

The fact that a trade is in the discussion points exactly to my issue here. The sox lost some O, their consistency is now going to be paramount and no domino can fall without a big ripple going through the lineup. The fact that a player outside the org is considered second line for the DH role is exactly my point. The margin for error internally has slimmed

[Dipre]

We're saying if he can't provide that. I say he hits 30 and drives in more than 95. But the fact that he's a question mark cannot be argued.

[riverside sluggers]

The fact that a trade is in the discussion points exactly to my issue here. The sox lost some O' date=' their consistency is now going to be paramount and no domino can fall without a big ripple going through the lineup. The fact that a player outside the org is considered second line for the DH role is exactly my point. The margin for error internally has slimmed[/quote']

 

I was commenting on your post that they cant find a DH in trades or FA signings

[jacksonianmarch]

25 and 90 isnt exactly easy to come by. Here are the guys who did it last yr...

 

Fielder, Howard, Pujols, Teixeira, Bay, Lind, Braun, Longoria, D. Lee, VMart, Morales, Hill, Zimmerman, Ethier, Dunn, Cabrera, Kubel, C. Lee, Reynolds, Kemp, ARod, Pena, Morneau, Ortiz, Werth, AdGon, Mauer, J. Lopez, Youk, Ibanez, Utley, Tulo, Matsui, Uggla, Zobrist, Sandoval

 

That's only 36 guys. Of that list, Dunn and AdGon are the only ones that jump out as trade candidates with Pena being an outside kinda guy. But when you are talking about 30 teams and 36 players on those teams, then break down the guys who are available and you run out of a lot of options. They arent as ubiquitous as they seem

[riverside sluggers]

So the Sox will only have a great chance of winning it all if Ortiz returns to his 35 +/- HR 125+ RBI form? Yeah ok

[Dipre]

25 and 90 isnt exactly easy to come by. Here are the guys who did it last yr...

 

Fielder, Howard, Pujols, Teixeira, Bay, Lind, Braun, Longoria, D. Lee, VMart, Morales, Hill, Zimmerman, Ethier, Dunn, Cabrera, Kubel, C. Lee, Reynolds, Kemp, ARod, Pena, Morneau, Ortiz, Werth, AdGon, Mauer, J. Lopez, Youk, Ibanez, Utley, Tulo, Matsui, Uggla, Zobrist, Sandoval

 

That's only 36 guys. Of that list, Dunn and AdGon are the only ones that jump out as trade candidates with Pena being an outside kinda guy. But when you are talking about 30 teams and 36 players on those teams, then break down the guys who are available and you run out of a lot of options. They arent as ubiquitous as they seem

 

54 guys hit 25 HR's last year, and a lot of them (like Jose Lopez) didn't reach the 90-RBI plateau because of their respective team's offensive futility or some (Like Hunter Pence) because of the position in the lineup they hit in. Finding a power guy to DH is simply not as difficult as you're trying to make it seem. There are always possibilities.

[jacksonianmarch]

I didnt say that. I said that the sox offense is relying on him to put up a 30HR 100RBI type season. Plus, I have said before that the entire offense just needs to hit ENOUGH to provide their stellar pitching with enough runs to win 90+ games. Ortiz is only a part of that picture, and if their rotation clicks like they have the potential to, anything they get above and beyond league average is a bonus.

 

A couple points just to lay it out there since people seem to continue to jump on my every word.

 

1. The Sox pitching will be stellar

2. The Sox defense will be very good

3. The Sox offense needs only to supply something and they will win 90-95 games

4. I expect the Sox to win the Wild Card this yr and meet NYY in the ALCS.

 

Keep those in mind before jumping down my throat with every post

[bsox0407]

25 and 90 isnt exactly easy to come by. Here are the guys who did it last yr...

 

Fielder, Howard, Pujols, Teixeira, Bay, Lind, Braun, Longoria, D. Lee, VMart, Morales, Hill, Zimmerman, Ethier, Dunn, Cabrera, Kubel, C. Lee, Reynolds, Kemp, ARod, Pena, Morneau, Ortiz, Werth, AdGon, Mauer, J. Lopez, Youk, Ibanez, Utley, Tulo, Matsui, Uggla, Zobrist, Sandoval

 

That's only 36 guys. Of that list, Dunn and AdGon are the only ones that jump out as trade candidates with Pena being an outside kinda guy. But when you are talking about 30 teams and 36 players on those teams, then break down the guys who are available and you run out of a lot of options. They arent as ubiquitous as they seem

 

Let us look at this. David hit like s*** up until June. SO really his HR totals and RBI totals came after two months were gone. In 101 Games he hit 27 HRS and 78 RBIS. So in the other 48 games he had 1 HR and 21 RBIS.

[a700hitter]

The opening day line up managed 0 runs today against the Pirates.

[a700hitter]

Tug Hulett is leading the Sox in RBI this Spring. lol!!!

[Dojji]

Good for him. He's the dark horse in a scrum for one of the few positions we actually have open this Spring so it's nice to see him show some effort.