Kotchman to the Mariners?

[bsox0407]

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL. He said Cano and Pedroia are even, and that Swisher and Drew are even LOL!

 

And I'm pretty sure our rotation and bullpen is superior to theirs too. WOW!

 

What a bunch of homers!

 

That site is all homers.

[Emmz]

Just ridiculous.

[bsox0407]

Just ridiculous.

 

ITs alright the Yankees have a better 1-2 punch then the Red Sox.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hey' date=' you hear that Jacko? Yankee homers! You'll feel right at home![/quote']

 

I cannot even read the content. I am banned from that site.....

[Emmz]

Someone who agrees with you that the rotations, and Cano and Pedroia are equals. At least you admitted Drew was superior to Swisher...

[jacksonianmarch]

I think you are going to be disappointed when the Yankees match the sox rotation pitch for pitch. Also, with Hughes or Joba in the pen, I'd take our pen too. And I do agree that Cano and Pedroia are even. Their OPS difference is .007 and that includes a miserable 2008 for Cano which was completely out of character for a guy who has set a precedent as being one o fthe best 2b's in the game.

[Dipre]

I think you are going to be disappointed when the Yankees match the sox rotation pitch for pitch. Also' date=' with Hughes or Joba in the pen, I'd take our pen too. And I do agree that Cano and Pedroia are even. Their OPS difference is .007 and that includes a miserable 2008 for Cano which was completely out of character for a guy who has set a precedent as being one o fthe best 2b's in the game.[/quote']

 

Someone's going to be disappointed. And it's not us. When Vasquez gets lit up like a Christmas tree don't say we didn't warn you. Also the top three? Please.

 

Also, Cano and Pedroia are not that close when you account for defense, mr. homer. The bullpen is up for debate until it is finalized.

[Emmz]

Thank you for proving my point for me.

 

And I never said that you DIDN'T say Cano and Pedroia were even. I know you did, and I think that's a bit of a stretch. Even 26 to 6 admitted Pedroia was superior to Cano. They're about the same offensively, with Pedroia vastly superior defensively.

 

As for the rotation argument, well, that's really... Sad. Vasquez is a 4th starter at best. He'd be a 5th starter on the Sox, and you seem to think he's a number 2 or 3.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pedroia has the higher career OPS, but that is only due to Cano's miserable 2008. Cano actually has had 3 seasons with an OPS over .840 to Pedroia's one. And, Cano has the two highest OPS seasons between the two with his 2006 and 2009. Offensively, he's the better player. Now defensively, Cano has had an interesting run when it comes to UZR. 2 consective seasons with a UZR right around -5 yet he had one yr of a UZR of 11. Pedroia has been consistently above 1. But the Range Factor is in Cano's favor, so I dunno which one to believe. Just going by my own visualizations, Cano had Pedroia in arm and range, but Cano seems to lollygag and make some stupid plays here and there. Pedroia may not have Cano's arm or range, but he still has good range for a 2B and makes almost all the plays.

 

Regardless, I dont think one could make a good case for either player to be the better overall player. Right now, both are right for what their team needs. The sox need him as their #2 hitter, and his patient approach is perfect. The Yankees need him as more of a power hitter since he hits lower in the order and drives in runs.

[jacksonianmarch]

I find it just sad how nobody here can acknowledge the acquisition of Vazquez. We won the World Series last yr (remember that) because we added 2 power pitchers to the front of our rotation and they rocked into the playoffs. And on top of that, we add the second most durable and one of the most powerful (K wise) pitchers of the past decade. Yet our rotation doesnt stack up? Just plain dumb. I am sick of arguing it. When the ASB comes around and the sox are scrambling to stay in the wild card hunt, then we'll have a conversation. The problem is, you guys never admit defeat. You never give credit to the other team. Regardless, maybe that'll change when #28 is secured. Or will you just whine about the financial advantage again?

[bsox0407]

I find it just sad how nobody here can acknowledge the acquisition of Vazquez. We won the World Series last yr (remember that) because we added 2 power pitchers to the front of our rotation and they rocked into the playoffs. And on top of that' date=' we add the second most durable and one of the most powerful (K wise) pitchers of the past decade. Yet our rotation doesnt stack up? Just plain dumb. I am sick of arguing it. When the ASB comes around and the sox are scrambling to stay in the wild card hunt, then we'll have a conversation. The problem is, you guys never admit defeat. You never give credit to the other team. Regardless, maybe that'll change when #28 is secured. Or will you just whine about the financial advantage again?[/quote']

 

What was Vazquez stats last time he was in the AL.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's had a WAR of 4.5 or higher for the past 4 seasons, 3 of those in the AL

[Dipre]

He's had a WAR of 4.5 or higher for the past 4 seasons' date=' 3 of those in the AL[/quote']

 

But he's been unable to keep runs off the board, and WAR highly values innings.

 

 

Ah, the Javier Vasquez safety net. You can wait for him to be "#3 or #2"" wishful thinking. Take him out of the NL, from that pitcher's park, and watch his ERA skyrocket. Hang on to the Vasquez parachute hard, and thank the Lord you're the only one hanging on to it, because it's going to be quite the fall.

 

Also, Pedroia is a better 2B than Cano. They're close offensively, but not close defensively. Why is this so hard to understand?

[bsox0407]

AL (4 yrs) W-52 L-46 W%-.531 ERA-4.52 G-130 GS-129 GF-0 CG-4 SHO-0 SV-0 IP-825.2 H-812 R-438 ER-415 HR-110 BB-227 IBB-9 SO-747 HP-39 BK-2 WP-26 BF-3493 ERA+-102 WHIP-1.258 H/9-8.9 HR/9-1.2 BB/9-2.5 SO/9-8.1 S0/BB-3.29

 

AL (8 yrs) W-102 L-71 W%-.590 ERA-3.81 G-234 GS-233 GF-0 CG-14 SHO-8 SV-0 IP-1501.0 H-1519 R-702 ER-636 HR-151 BB-441 IBB-19 SO-1201 HP-73 BK-5 WP-83 BF-6371 ERA+-117 WHIP-1.306 H/9-9.1 HR/9-0.9 BB/9-2.6 SO/BB-7.2 SO/BB-2.72

 

Which player would you rather have on your team.

[Emmz]

Pedroia has the higher career OPS, but that is only due to Cano's miserable 2008. Cano actually has had 3 seasons with an OPS over .840 to Pedroia's one. And, Cano has the two highest OPS seasons between the two with his 2006 and 2009. Offensively, he's the better player. Now defensively, Cano has had an interesting run when it comes to UZR. 2 consective seasons with a UZR right around -5 yet he had one yr of a UZR of 11. Pedroia has been consistently above 1. But the Range Factor is in Cano's favor, so I dunno which one to believe. Just going by my own visualizations, Cano had Pedroia in arm and range, but Cano seems to lollygag and make some stupid plays here and there. Pedroia may not have Cano's arm or range, but he still has good range for a 2B and makes almost all the plays.

 

Regardless, I dont think one could make a good case for either player to be the better overall player. Right now, both are right for what their team needs. The sox need him as their #2 hitter, and his patient approach is perfect. The Yankees need him as more of a power hitter since he hits lower in the order and drives in runs.

 

I'll take consistent 115 OPS+ and defensive excellence from Pedroia, over Cano's inconsistency over the past three seasons eight days a week.

[jacksonianmarch]

Better peripherals from Vazquez, but a higher ERA. I have said before that ERA is not a good way to judge a pitcher. You tried to make the point that its his inability to pitch when runners are on base. That's kinda like arguing clutch in a hitter, eventually it all evens out.

[Emmz]

He's had a WAR of 4.5 or higher for the past 4 seasons' date=' 3 of those in the AL[/quote']

 

Livan Hernandez has had some high WAR, too.

[bsox0407]

Better peripherals from Vazquez' date=' but a higher ERA. I have said before that ERA is not a good way to judge a pitcher. [b']You tried to make the point that its his inability to pitch when runners are on base. That's kinda like arguing clutch in a hitter, eventually it all evens out[/b].

 

Now you put words in my mouth.

 

Which pitcher would you rather have on your squad. 1 or 2

[Emmz]

Better peripherals from Vazquez' date=' but a higher ERA. I have said before that ERA is not a good way to judge a pitcher. You tried to make the point that its his inability to pitch when runners are on base. That's kinda like arguing clutch in a hitter, eventually it all evens out.[/quote']

 

No, in the end, ERA is what counts. It's the amount of runs that a pitcher gives up.

 

Vasquez is not even half as good as you're hyping him.

 

You'll see, when his ERA inflates to around 4.50 with the Yankees next season.

[Emmz]

Now you put words in my mouth.

 

Which pitcher would you rather have on your squad. 1 or 2

 

He has no grasp of unbiased analysis. It's like arguing with someone who plugs their ears and yells "lalalalalalalalalalala"

[bsox0407]

Last time he pitched for the Yankees his strikeout total was the lowest of his career. Didn't make 200 innings. ERA high.

[bsox0407]

He has no grasp of unbiased analysis. It's like arguing with someone who plugs their ears and yells "lalalalalalalalalalala"

 

Exactly. I am surprised that Yankees Forum banned him. I thought he would be King.

[Imperial59]

When the ASB comes around and the sox are scrambling to stay in the wild card hunt' date=' then we'll have a conversation. The problem is, you guys never admit defeat. You never give credit to the other team. Regardless, maybe that'll change when #28 is secured. Or will you just whine about the financial advantage again?[/quote']

 

I know Jacko, you think we're all homers because we haven't admitted defeat and ceded title number 28 in January. I'm sure in your mind the Yankees already have the next three locked up, so I can understand how frustrating having to play the games first must be.

[Imperial59]

I think you are going to be disappointed when the Yankees match the sox rotation pitch for pitch. Also' date=' with Hughes or Joba in the pen, I'd take our pen too. And I do agree that Cano and Pedroia are even. Their OPS difference is .007 and that includes a miserable 2008 for Cano which was completely out of character for a guy who has set a precedent as being one o fthe best 2b's in the game.[/quote']

 

What does any of that have to do with the Kotchman deal?

 

Do you really have to turn literally every thread you post in into an explanation about how you think the Yankees are the much better team? No wonder you got kicked out of a Yankees forum, I'm sure even they got tired of it after a while.

[Emmz]

I know Jacko' date=' you think we're all homers because we haven't admitted defeat and ceded title number 28 in January. I'm sure in your mind the Yankees already have the next three locked up, so I can understand how frustrating having to play the games first must be.[/quote']

 

Patience is a virtue.

[Emmz]

What does any of that have to do with the Kotchman deal?

 

Do you really have to turn literally every thread you post in into an explanation about how you think the Yankees are the much better team? No wonder you got kicked out of a Yankees forum, I'm sure even they got tired of it after a while.

 

You're talking to a guy who thinks the Yankees have a better to superior rotation to the Red Sox. He's really just a basket case.

[Imperial59]

I find it just sad how nobody here can acknowledge the acquisition of Vazquez.

 

Vazquez has averaged a FIP of about 4 in the American League and his career ERA is about 0.40 points higher than his FIP. It's no wonder his career ERA in the American League is about 4.50. But I digress. Even if he pitches to an ERA of 4 next year, do you think that makes the Yankees rotation as good as the Red Sox?

[Emmz]

Exactly. Honestly, I highly doubt he has an ERA of 4 flat. I'll put money on a 4.50, and Jacko eating some major crow about his shiny new "number 2 starter". He's a 5th starter on the Red Sox, and that's really about all that can be said. 3rd or 4th starter on the Yankees is a 5th starter on the Red Sox. Burnett is a 4th starter on the Red Sox. CC can only get you so far, and he's not as "vastly superior" to Lester as many would lead you to believe. Those are the same Yankee fans who were saying that CC was "vastly superior" to Cliff Lee, who completely manhandled the Yankees, and totally outpitched his "vastly superior" counterpart.

[diony]

Vazquez has averaged a FIP of about 4 in the American League and his career ERA is about 0.40 points higher than his FIP.

 

That?s a good thing. It means that he?s been a better pitcher than what his ERA shows, thanks to his peripherals.

[Dipre]

That?s a good thing. It means that he?s been a better pitcher than what his ERA shows' date=' thanks to his peripherals.[/quote']

 

No.

 

It means he's:

 

A) Incapable of getting outs with runners on.

 

B ) XBH prone (specially homer prone), which FIP doesn't account for.

 

Face it, Vasquez is a good innings eater, but he can't keep runs off the board.