Yankees sign Nick Johnson to 1 yr deal

[Emmz]

Kotchman won't be in the starting lineup when the season starts. At least he'd better not be. While the Yankees may have a slight edge in their lineup' date=' [b']their rotation doesn't stack up anymore.[/b]

 

Their lineup slightly>Ours

 

Our Rotation>>>>>>>Theirs

 

And adding another bat to play third or first (Youk staying put or moving the third) such as Beltre or Gonzales would even things quite a bit. Especially if it's Gonzales.

[26 to 6]

My point is very basic. I'm sorry it soared over your head.

 

I merely pointed out the bias and inequity of dumping on a Sox player receiving an award and almost within the same breath claiming foul when a Sox fan does the same about something the Yankee fans feel good about. Any adult, for that matter, anyone over 6 years old, can see the hipocracy and bias here.

 

As well, Yankee fans are afforded the same latitude as Sox fans on Talksox. Everyone can be a troll or flamer and get away with it to some extent. You should know this. You are involved with some of it too.

 

As far as banning ORS is concerned, well, I would say 5-6 of the regular posting members should be banned if his alleged infraction warrants a ban. This would include some Yankee fans, obviously.

I absolutely agree with everything you say. The bias exists on both sides here, and I know this is a Sox board and it should be expected, and that's fine. But you should also expect somewhat of a Yankee bias from Yankee fans, not expect us to come here kissing the Sox asses just because this is a Sox board. We're all here sharing our opinons, and sometimes it gets out of hand, and on plenty of occasions I have admittedly been involved. And truthfully I don't want ORS to get banned, nor do I hope he does. I just want to point out that in most other cases, including those involving us Yankee fans, a warning is typically issued. I'm just saying that if the rules are completely ignored and not even at least acknowledged or reiterated in some kind of a warning or something I'll have a hard time taking things seriously. I also realize this just occurred and a moderator may not have seen it yet. I'm not here to bitch, which is what I know it must seem like, I'm just pointing this out in an effort to promote fairness so all of us could coexist and get along better here. I'm all for increasing the level of civility and intelligent discussion here, and if you guys have noticed I've tried refraining from any from any serious conflict or controversy lately. All I'm asking is for us all to act and be treated reasonably here, regardless of our fan affiliations.

[26 to 6]

Their lineup slightly>Ours

Our Rotation>>>>>>>Theirs

And adding another bat to play third or first (Youk staying put or moving the third) such as Beltre or Gonzales would even things quite a bit. Especially if it's Gonzales.

 

 

I don't know about Sox rotation>>>>>>>Yankee rotation. I'll settle for Sox rotation>>>Yankee rotation

 

Our pitching carried us last year despite the occasional struggles along the way. Any way you cut it our top 3, albeit flawed, is pretty tough.

[Emmz]

Burnett is very hit-and-miss, Sabathia is an ace, and in the playoffs, they did carry the load, but that's due to a lot of days off. The Sox have a much deeper rotation, and I think Pettite and Burnett would have to fight to even have a spot in the rotation, personally.

[Keeper]

I think Pettite and Burnett would have to fight to even have a spot in the rotation' date=' personally.[/quote']

 

Not in the 5th hole. And Burnett is probably better than Buchholz at this point.

[Dipre]

BTW' date=' for the mods, does his inital post exhibit an example of an inflammatory post? Shouldn't that require a short vacation for our enlightened friend?[/quote']

 

 

Also' date=' Dipre, I see that your "flair" is coming back. Thats both good and bad. Your vacation from here was actually a peaceful time on the board, but when you arent hurling insults, you contribute a lot. Welcome back, hopefully it doesnt degenerate again[/i']

 

What about this one?

 

I firmly believe if ORS deserves a vacation, so do you. And maybe a longer one.

[jacksonianmarch]

My point is very basic. I'm sorry it soared over your head.

 

I merely pointed out the bias and inequity of dumping on a Sox player receiving an award and almost within the same breath claiming foul when a Sox fan does the same about something the Yankee fans feel good about. Any adult, for that matter, anyone over 6 years old, can see the hipocracy and bias here.

 

As well, Yankee fans are afforded the same latitude as Sox fans on Talksox. Everyone can be a troll or flamer and get away with it to some extent. You should know this. You are involved with some of it too.

 

As far as banning ORS is concerned, well, I would say 5-6 of the regular posting members should be banned if his alleged infraction warrants a ban. This would include some Yankee fans, obviously.

 

 

I actually gave you a reason, though. Ellsbury makes some great catches, but his defensive metrics show that for 2009, he was not a very good CFer. Could it be a fluke? Yes. Could it be an error in the evaluation. Always possible. But his UZR was horrible. Kinda like saying Jeter has deserved all of his GG's. There have been tons of better defenders when Jeter won his GG's, but the popularity and the flair plays out more than consistency.

 

On to ORS. Per usual, he uses no attempt to debate, just to flame. Now, if I go on a rampage calling someone a douchebag, I have a feeling, I'd be banned for a few days. I did not. I even gave ORS a chance to rebut, he did not. Here is the deal, it is difficult to debate that NY is anything but superior to Boston for 2010. When that topic is brought up and the comparisons are brought to light, some just cannot handle it. ORS fits into that category. He's been nothing but an inflammatory troll since the yankees won the WS with everyone, sox and yankee fans alike. I for one, am sick of it.

[jacksonianmarch]

What about this one?

 

I firmly believe if ORS deserves a vacation, so do you. And maybe a longer one.

 

Go ahead, analyze it Dipre. You ran off in a tiff, claiming that everyone wanted you to leave. I did not. I actually sent tex a PM stating that your departure would hurt the site when you initially left. But, as it turns out, your leaving for 4 days turned into peaceful banter. And someone else noted it as well in one of the posts. Reciting history is not a flame. If you cannot handle the truth, then you need to buck up.

[jacksonianmarch]

Their lineup slightly>Ours

 

Our Rotation>>>>>>>Theirs

 

And adding another bat to play third or first (Youk staying put or moving the third) such as Beltre or Gonzales would even things quite a bit. Especially if it's Gonzales.

 

Your rotation is better, I agree with you there. But not as much as you may want to portray. I am going by consistent contributors here. CC, AJ, and Pettitte vs Lester, Beckett, and Lackey. You guys take 2 of 3. The back 2 spots are crap shoots for both teams.

[Emmz]

Your rotation is better' date=' I agree with you there. But not as much as you may want to portray. I am going by consistent contributors here. CC, AJ, and Pettitte vs Lester, Beckett, and Lackey. You guys take 2 of 3. The back 2 spots are crap shoots for both teams.[/quote']

 

Pettite and Burnett aren't even clear-cut better than Dice-K. How are the last two spots crap shoots?

[Dipre]

Go ahead' date=' analyze it Dipre. You ran off in a tiff, claiming that everyone wanted you to leave. I did not. I actually sent tex a PM stating that your departure would hurt the site when you initially left. But, as it turns out, your leaving for 4 days turned into peaceful banter. And someone else noted it as well in one of the posts. Reciting history is not a flame. If you cannot handle the truth, then you need to buck up.[/quote']

 

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

The point is, you keep baiting away and baiting away and baiting away, and trolling, and trolling, and trolling, and you get away with it. The bias in most of your posts is so obvious even some of the other Yankee fans call you out on it. This is fact.

 

I'm not turning this into a shitstorm, but you should at least consider that if everyone around you screams "Bias" 90% of the times you post, maybe it's not because it's a Red Sox board and you're "speaking the truth" but maybe because it is bias, and ridiculous at that.

 

This is not an attempt at a personal attack, but an illustration of how the way you tend to completely overestimate the Yankees while understimating the Red Sox rubs everyone else the wrong way. Ever think, for a split second, that maybe everyone else is right, and there are indeed some fundamental mistakes in your thought process while making your "evaluations"?

 

Final thoughts on the subject on my part.

[Emmz]

Go ahead' date=' analyze it Dipre. You ran off in a tiff, claiming that everyone wanted you to leave. I did not. I actually sent tex a PM stating that your departure would hurt the site when you initially left. But, as it turns out, your leaving for 4 days turned into peaceful banter. And someone else noted it as well in one of the posts. Reciting history is not a flame. If you cannot handle the truth, then you need to buck up.[/quote']

 

Even if it is true, which it certainly isn't, there's absolutely no reason for this to be said, whatsoever. It was inciteful and completely unnecessary.

[Dipre]

Your rotation is better' date=' I agree with you there. But not as much as you may want to portray. I am going by consistent contributors here. CC, AJ, and Pettitte vs Lester, Beckett, and Lackey. You guys take 2 of 3. The back 2 spots are crap shoots for both teams.[/quote']

 

Right now, there is nothing the Yankees can trot out there(After the top 3) that is better than Dice-K. And better than Bucholz is probably a stretch too.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pettite and Burnett aren't even clear-cut better than Dice-K. How are the last two spots crap shoots?

 

DiceK was hurt most of the yr with a shoulder injury and Buchholz has yet to throw a full season in the bigs. They are as much of a crap shoot as Joba in yr 2 and Hughes in fist full yr #1

[Emmz]

No, not a chance. Buchholz and Dice K have shown MUCH better strides in the big leagues than Joba and Hughes.

[Dipre]

DiceK was hurt most of the yr with a shoulder injury and Buchholz has yet to throw a full season in the bigs. They are as much of a crap shoot as Joba in yr 2 and Hughes in fist full yr #1

 

Bucholz and Dice-K are much more of a "sure thing" than Joba and Hughes. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's obviously biased and incorrect.

[jacksonianmarch]

Buchholz has thrown a total of 190.2IP in the majors spread across 3 seasons. His career ERA is 4.91 and his career WHIP is 1.50 and his career K.9IP is 7.6. Joba has thrown 281IP in the majors over 3 yrs. His career ERA is 3.61, career WHIP is 1.38 and his K/9 is 9.1. Gloss over it all you want. Prior to the time when they started monkeying around with him in August, Joba put up a very solid line. Buchholz also put up a solid line in his 92IP of big league work. Both have the stuff. One has pitched a full yr as a starting pitching. One has not. And, prior to 2009, Joba had a very successful stint as a SP. It is ALL about the endurance and the capacity to repeat the delivery for 150-200IP. Both have had troubles with that. Joba just has gotten more reps against the big boys.

[bsox0407]

Buchholz has thrown a total of 190.2IP in the majors spread across 3 seasons. His career ERA is 4.91 and his career WHIP is 1.50 and his career K.9IP is 7.6. Joba has thrown 281IP in the majors over 3 yrs. His career ERA is 3.61' date=' career WHIP is 1.38 and his K/9 is 9.1. Gloss over it all you want. Prior to the time when they started monkeying around with him in August, Joba put up a very solid line. Buchholz also put up a solid line in his 92IP of big league work. Both have the stuff. One has pitched a full yr as a starting pitching. One has not. And, prior to 2009, Joba had a very successful stint as a SP. It is ALL about the endurance and the capacity to repeat the delivery for 150-200IP. Both have had troubles with that. Joba just has gotten more reps against the big boys.[/quote']

 

How many of those 281 innings came out of the bullpen. As for Endurance. a lot of last year he would pitch 3-5 innings and was done.

[Emmz]

Buchholz has thrown a total of 190.2IP in the majors spread across 3 seasons. His career ERA is 4.91 and his career WHIP is 1.50 and his career K.9IP is 7.6. Joba has thrown 281IP in the majors over 3 yrs. His career ERA is 3.61' date=' career WHIP is 1.38 and his K/9 is 9.1. Gloss over it all you want. Prior to the time when they started monkeying around with him in August, Joba put up a very solid line. Buchholz also put up a solid line in his 92IP of big league work. Both have the stuff. One has pitched a full yr as a starting pitching. One has not. And, prior to 2009, Joba had a very successful stint as a SP. It is ALL about the endurance and the capacity to repeat the delivery for 150-200IP. Both have had troubles with that. Joba just has gotten more reps against the big boys.[/quote']

 

Joba doesn't have starter stuff, and you know that full well. Buchholz showed a lot of improvement last season, especially towards the end, as being a very solid 5th starter. You haven't said anything for Hughes, either, who's basically done nothing in his career, especially in a starting rotation. Also, you haven't addressed how they're both equal to Dice-K, which they obviously aren't. Joba and Hughes are meant to be relievers, not starters.

[jacksonianmarch]

221 of Joba's innings have come as a starter. Also, 18 of his 31 starts went 5+IP. By the end, they f***ed around with him so much that he just flat out lost effectiveness. His August and Sept numbers were beyond horrible. I expect his endurance to be a bit better this season

[jacksonianmarch]

Joba doesn't have starter stuff' date=' and you know that full well. Buchholz showed a lot of improvement last season, especially towards the end, as being a very solid 5th starter. You haven't said anything for Hughes, either, who's basically done nothing in his career, especially in a starting rotation. Also, you haven't addressed how they're both equal to Dice-K, which they obviously aren't. Joba and Hughes are meant to be relievers, not starters.[/quote']

 

Joba has starter's stuff. Its not even debatable, his FB-slider combo is dynamite and he finishes it off with a plus curve and a passable change. The question is, does he have a starter's endurance.

 

Hughes has not done much in the rotation, you are right. Last yr, he finished his stint in the rotation with a few good, promising starts before being moved into the pen. Hughes has the endurance, he has proven that in the minors. My only question with Hughes is, can he take his vast arsenal and locate it out of the rotation.

 

If Joba improves his endurance and Hughes shows the ability to repeat the delivery consistently, then both will be dynamite. Buchholz needs to prove the same thing as Hughes

[jacksonianmarch]

In terms of DiceK, if he is totally healthy, he's a very solid pitcher. But he's now had his shoulder act up 2 yrs in a row, with it essentially causing him to be useless last yr. Shoulder injuries and pitchers dont go well together. Couple that with a slight frame and you have a recipe for injury. Hence, why he's a ??. A healthy DiceK is better than all 4 of the above

[bsox0407]

In terms of DiceK' date=' if he is totally healthy, he's a very solid pitcher. But he's now had his shoulder act up 2 yrs in a row, with it essentially causing him to be useless last yr. Shoulder injuries and pitchers dont go well together. Couple that with a slight frame and you have a recipe for injury. Hence, why he's a ??. A healthy DiceK is better than all 4 of the above[/quote']

 

Dice-k has already started working on his body and arm for next year.

[Dipre]

Buchholz has thrown a total of 190.2IP in the majors spread across 3 seasons. His career ERA is 4.91 and his career WHIP is 1.50 and his career K.9IP is 7.6. Joba has thrown 281IP in the majors over 3 yrs. His career ERA is 3.61' date=' career WHIP is 1.38 and his K/9 is 9.1. Gloss over it all you want. Prior to the time when they started monkeying around with him in August, Joba put up a very solid line. Buchholz also put up a solid line in his 92IP of big league work. Both have the stuff. One has pitched a full yr as a starting pitching. One has not. And, prior to 2009, Joba had a very successful stint as a SP. It is ALL about the endurance and the capacity to repeat the delivery for 150-200IP. Both have had troubles with that. Joba just has gotten more reps against the big boys.[/quote']

 

So even though Bucholz was clearly superior last year, and you know of all the confounders for his situation (altered mechanics) you still fail to muster up a logical process that will allow you to reach the conclusion that, in fact, your comparison holds no validity, specially considering the fact that you are dishonestly using Joba's dominant stint as a setup man to aid your argument when we are comparing them as starting pitchers:

 

Over 257.2 IP as a starter, Joba Chamberlain has a 3.91 ERA, not 3.61, as you state. You should attempt not to be so intellectually dishonest.

[Emmz]

Joba has starter's stuff. Its not even debatable' date=' his FB-slider combo is dynamite and he finishes it off with a plus curve and a passable change. The question is, does he have a starter's endurance.[/quote']

 

Poor choice of words on my behalf. I didn't literally mean his stuff, but that's my fault. I was referring to his endurance and other things.

 

Hughes has not done much in the rotation, you are right. Last yr, he finished his stint in the rotation with a few good, promising starts before being moved into the pen. Hughes has the endurance, he has proven that in the minors. My only question with Hughes is, can he take his vast arsenal and locate it out of the rotation.

 

If Joba improves his endurance and Hughes shows the ability to repeat the delivery consistently, then both will be dynamite. Buchholz needs to prove the same thing as Hughes

 

He doesn't have to improve on what Hughes does, as he's much more proven than Hughes is. You still haven't told me how those guys are comparable to Dice-K.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dice-k has already started working on his body and arm for next year.

 

that may not matter if he has a structural injury, something that is very possible. If it is just fatigue, then this should help

[bsox0407]

that may not matter if he has a structural injury' date=' something that is very possible. If it is just fatigue, then this should help[/quote']

 

He was tired as anything after throwing in the WBC last year. When he came back after strengthening last year he pitched well.

[jacksonianmarch]

So even though Bucholz was clearly superior last year, and you know of all the confounders for his situation (altered mechanics) you still fail to muster up a logical process that will allow you to reach the conclusion that, in fact, your comparison holds no validity, specially considering the fact that you are dishonestly using Joba's dominant stint as a setup man to aid your argument when we are comparing them as starting pitchers:

 

Over 257.2 IP as a starter, Joba Chamberlain has a 3.91 ERA, not 3.61, as you state. You should attempt not to be so intellectually dishonest.

 

I was using his career #s not his SP numbers. I figured they'd count since he actually faced major league hitters. As a SP, Joba's overall line is

 

12-7 4.18ERA 1.48WHIP 8.4K/9IP. Eerily similar WHIP, Joba has him in the power department and is probably why the ERA is lower

[jacksonianmarch]

Poor choice of words on my behalf. I didn't literally mean his stuff, but that's my fault. I was referring to his endurance and other things.

 

 

 

He doesn't have to improve on what Hughes does, as he's much more proven than Hughes is. You still haven't told me how those guys are comparable to Dice-K.

 

I did above. Hughes has proven his stuff can be absolutely shut down in short stints and that he is inconsistent out of the starter's role. Buchholz hasnt relieved before, but he has also shown he's inconsistent out of the starter's role. Lets be honest here. All three of these pitchers have ceilings as aces. The question is, endurance and development. They all lack in both categories.

[Dipre]

I was using his career #s not his SP numbers. I figured they'd count since he actually faced major league hitters. As a SP, Joba's overall line is

 

12-7 4.18ERA 1.48WHIP 8.4K/9IP. Eerily similar WHIP, Joba has him in the power department and is probably why the ERA is lower

 

The problem with that is that we have already concluded that Joba's problem is not stuff, but endurance.

 

If you give him nearly 30 IP of one-inning stints, you're giving him a sizable advantage. Also, his WHIP and K/9, while "comparable" are still worse. Not to mention the variations in stuff from inning-to-inning and inability to go deep into ballgames.