Steve Phillips fired

[Mr Crunchy]

Also, the fact that everyone bashes Minaya for running the Mets into the ground is laughable at best.

 

2003 Mets: 66-95

2004 Mets: 71-91

Minaya is hired as the General Manager...

2005 Mets: 83-79

2006 Mets: 97-65

2007 Mets: 88-74

2008 Mets: 89-73

2009 Mets: 70-92

 

They had a rough year this year, but they also suffered an extraordinary amount of injuries. Minaya, upon arriving in New York, instantly made them contenders. Phillips also deserves some credit for bringing it David Wright and Jose Reyes.

 

Spending 150M or so in the NL should make anyone an instant contender, no?

Atlanta was going down as Philly moved up and Miami has a payroll about the size of my old coke habit then you see Miami 18xs, DC 18Xs and the Pittsburgs and Cincinatti's of the league regularly, 90 wins shouldnt be considered an accomplishment based on their budget alone,should it?

Paying Martinez 54M worked out well, how many wins did Petey give them in 4 years and did he even pitch in the playoffs for them? another 90M or so to Beltran, a guy who had a magnificent 2nd half in 2005 but hasnt lived up to expectations either. selling his ass for Johan Santana, who many thought was used material and overpriced could be considered a mistake unless he is magnificent in the next 2 years coming off surgery.

Minaya wanted to go head to head with the Yankees while trying to win over the Washington Heights crowd by loading up with Dominicans..fair enuff and it seemed like a savy move business wise but it didnt work out that way on the field and their late season collapses in 07-08 were just inexcusable, simply inexcusable..last year they were out of it before Memorial Day. with the budget the Wilpons gave him I can honestly say he didnt spend it wisely and their farm system isnt being developed as properly as it should either.

See some of the names on their roster?

Fernando Tatis, Angel Pagan, Sheffield, Delgado, Wilson Valdez etc...It may have been different if Reyes and Castillo played together often enuff but they didnt and now it seems the entire team is in disarray and David Wright is on island of achievement all by himself.

 

Phillips didnt trade Kazmir?Jim Duquette is responsible for this then?

I humbly apologize but Phillips still takes it in the ass.

you go from Phillips to Duquette to Minaya....1/2 a billion later they got 1 playoff series win this century, that dont fly for that kind of cash being spent.

Where's Mrs Benson? She's worth the price of admission and at least brought some attitude to the team by threatening her husband by offering to blow the entire team if he stepped out on her.God I admire that lady.

anyway.

If Im Wilpon I look for a young guy whos willing to tear it all down and rebuild but due to the huge fiscal investment in the new ballpark they cant afford to rebuild and maybe stuck in baseball Purgatory for a long spell..In other words theyre f***ed to tears.

[yankees228]

"Selling his ass" for Johan Santana? He gave up absolutely nothing. He stole Santana. As for Pedro, you're right, he didn't last the duration of his contract. However, he made the Mets legitimate. That was his first move after taking over as GM, and I think it changed the culture of the Mets. Remember, they got Carlos Beltran later in the offseason. I think there's a very good chance that Beltran doesn't come, if not for the Mets showing that they want to contend.

 

You can say whatever you want about payroll, but here are the facts. The year before Minaya took over the Mets were a bad team. The next year they were decent. The next year they were the best team in the National League. Last year was a tough year, but no team would be able to persevere through the injuries that the Mets suffered. Three of their four best offensive players missed significant time, and three of their four starting pitchers missed significant time.

[Dipre]

"Selling his ass" for Johan Santana? He gave up absolutely nothing. He stole Santana. As for Pedro, you're right, he didn't last the duration of his contract. However, he made the Mets legitimate. That was his first move after taking over as GM, and I think it changed the culture of the Mets. Remember, they got Carlos Beltran later in the offseason. I think there's a very good chance that Beltran doesn't come, if not for the Mets showing that they want to contend.

 

You can say whatever you want about payroll, but here are the facts. The year before Minaya took over the Mets were a bad team. The next year they were decent. The next year they were the best team in the National League. Last year was a tough year, but no team would be able to persevere through the injuries that the Mets suffered. Three of their four best offensive players missed significant time, and three of their four starting pitchers missed significant time.

 

I like how people say "It's because the team is old" and someone even went as far as saying Beltran is "old". The man is 32. Stop it.

 

If you go through the injury list i posted before, you'll notice they were mostly freak injuries and, with the notable exception of Delgado, happened to some of the younger members of the team (not counting Beltran, 'cause he's clearly due for a retirement home).

[yankees228]

I like how people say "It's because the team is old" and someone even went as far as saying Beltran is "old". The man is 32. Stop it.

 

If you go through the injury list i posted before, you'll notice they were mostly freak injuries and, with the notable exception of Delgado, happened to some of the younger members of the team (not counting Beltran, 'cause he's clearly due for a retirement home).

 

Exactly. Those injuries could not have been planned for.

 

EDIT: Not to mention Beltran was signed when he was 27 (soon to be 28). It was an excellent move, and I was really hoping that it was going to the Yankees who would step in and get a deal done.

[Wells]

f*** the Mets. They were put on this Earth to suck. There is only room for one baseball team in NY in my opinion. It disgusts me when Mets fans and Red Sox fans get together thinking that it's for a greater good. Shea was a dump, they play in a place called Flushing. Citi Field is already falling apart and the organization is more concerned about making the Post's back page than winning championships. They'll overpay for anyone with a name and they've proven it.

 

I cannot wait to see what happens when Mauer's contract is up because if they don't change their policies soon they'll do for him what they did for Pedro and Santana.

[a700hitter]

f*** the Mets. They were put on this Earth to suck. There is only room for one baseball team in NY in my opinion. It disgusts me when Mets fans and Red Sox fans get together thinking that it's for a greater good. Shea was a dump, they play in a place called Flushing. Citi Field is already falling apart and the organization is more concerned about making the Post's back page than winning championships. They'll overpay for anyone with a name and they've proven it.

 

I cannot wait to see what happens when Mauer's contract is up because if they don't change their policies soon they'll do for him what they did for Pedro and Santana.

It's too bad that you live in a world of denial. For all of the Yankee Empire garbage, they have to share their own city with the Mets and before the Mets, they shared it with the Dodgers and Giants. Baseballs roots in NY are very heavily NL roots.

[Wells]

DeNile is a river in Egypt.

 

The Braves were in Boston before the Red Sox. The Braves went to Milwaukee leaving only the Sox. If an NL expansion team moved in, how would Red Sox fans generally take it, do you think? I, for one, would want nothing but disaster for it. The NL is for wimps and pussies anyway.

[a700hitter]

DeNile is a river in Egypt.

 

The Braves were in Boston before the Red Sox. The Braves went to Milwaukee leaving only the Sox. If an NL expansion team moved in, how would Red Sox fans generally take it, do you think? I, for one, would want nothing but disaster for it. The NL is for wimps and pussies anyway.

When Boston had two teams, it was more of an AL town as the Red Sox always drew many more fans than the Braves. In NY, more fans went to NL games than AL games until 1958 when the Giants and Dodgers moved west. NY was an AL town until 1964 when the lowly Mets started to outdraw the AL Champion Yanks, and the Mets outdrew the Yanks every year until 1976 when the Yankees opened the second Yankee Stadium. In the long history of baseball in NY, it has been much more of an NL town than an AL town.

[Wells]

I see what you're saying but it is certainly debateable. Winning changes a lot of things and one of those things is that New York is not an NL town in 2009. Aside from 1986-1988 I don't think NYC has been an "NL Town" for much of my life.

 

Mile wide, inch deep.

[a700hitter]

I see what you're saying but it is certainly debateable. Winning changes a lot of things and one of those things is that New York is not an NL town in 2009. Aside from 1986-1988 I don't think NYC has been an "NL Town" for much of my life.

 

Mile wide, inch deep.

 

While the Yankees were winning 20 of their 26 World Series, more NY fans went to NL ballparks. Even when the Mets were tremendous losers from 1964-1968 they out drew the Yankees. They continued to out draw them until 1976. In 1977, the Mets traded Seaver and became a little league team for years. Beginning in 1984 the Mets drew more fans than the Yanks each year until 1993. I don't know how hold you are, but historically throughout more than 100 years, NY has been more of an NL town.

[Wells]

47 years (almost half the 100 years you're talking about) have passed since the Mets rolled in.

 

It boils down to winning. The figures clearly show (aside from the early years in Queens) that whichever team is winning gets more fans.

 

1962-63 The Yanks outdrew the "NL Town" and they went to the WS both years, losing the one in '63.

 

Shea opened up in 1964 and the Mets outdrew. The yanks lost the world series.

 

1965 - 1973 saw the Yanks finish 6, 10, 9, 5, 5, 2, 4, 4, 4 while the Mets finished 10, 9, 10, 9, 1, 3, 3, 3, 1 with a new ballpark and 2 world series appearances during that time. Mets outdrew during this time.

 

1974, 75 they shared Shea. The Mets outdrew in both seasons (probably because no Yankee fan wants to actually go to Queens)

 

1976-83 the Yanks outdrew. Renovated Yankee Stadium, 5 playoff appearances and 2 world titles will do that for a team. The Mets, meanwhile, never finished above 5th place (aside from 1976 - 3rd).

 

1984-92 the Mets outdrew. The Mets finished 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 5, 5 while the yanks finished 3, 2, 2, 4, 5, 5, 7, 5, 4. 1 world title in 2 playoff apearances in Queens. No playoffs in the Bronx during this time period.

 

1993-present the Yanks have dominated in attendance. 14 playoff appearances compared to the Mets showing up in October 3 times. No world titles for the Mets and 4 for the Yanks.

 

So since the Mets came to a town that was apparently starved for some NL baseball the Yanks have 2 more years with higher attendance (if my math is correct).

 

The years the Mets were winning more, they drew more and the same can be said for the Yanks.

 

Thus proving my point that New York is not an NL town but rather they go to whichever burough is fielding a winner.

 

We can look for Brooklyn Dodgers/NY Giants figures and compare those to the Yanks figures later on. You may actually have an argument there. But we'll see.

[a700hitter]

47 years (almost half the 100 years you're talking about) have passed since the Mets rolled in.

 

It boils down to winning. The figures clearly show (aside from the early years in Queens) that whichever team is winning gets more fans.

 

1962-63 The Yanks outdrew the "NL Town" and they went to the WS both years, losing the one in '63.

 

Shea opened up in 1964 and the Mets outdrew. The yanks lost the world series.

 

1965 - 1973 saw the Yanks finish 6, 10, 9, 5, 5, 2, 4, 4, 4 while the Mets finished 10, 9, 10, 9, 1, 3, 3, 3, 1 with a new ballpark and 2 world series appearances during that time. Mets outdrew during this time.

 

1974, 75 they shared Shea. The Mets outdrew in both seasons (probably because no Yankee fan wants to actually go to Queens)

 

1976-83 the Yanks outdrew. Renovated Yankee Stadium, 5 playoff appearances and 2 world titles will do that for a team. The Mets, meanwhile, never finished above 5th place (aside from 1976 - 3rd).

 

1984-92 the Mets outdrew. The Mets finished 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 5, 5 while the yanks finished 3, 2, 2, 4, 5, 5, 7, 5, 4. 1 world title in 2 playoff apearances in Queens. No playoffs in the Bronx during this time period.

 

1993-present the Yanks have dominated in attendance. 14 playoff appearances compared to the Mets showing up in October 3 times. No world titles for the Mets and 4 for the Yanks.

 

So since the Mets came to a town that was apparently starved for some NL baseball the Yanks have 2 more years with higher attendance (if my math is correct).

 

The years the Mets were winning more, they drew more and the same can be said for the Yanks.

 

Thus proving my point that New York is not an NL town but rather they go to whichever burough is fielding a winner.

 

We can look for Brooklyn Dodgers/NY Giants figures and compare those to the Yanks figures later on. You may actually have an argument there. But we'll see.

I think if you check the attendance figures you will find that there were a number of seasons where the Yankees finished as high or higher than the Mets in the standings, but finished behind the Mets in attendance. I don't think there is a single season when the yankees had more attendance, but finished as as low or lower than the Mets in the standings. Generally, the attendance has related to winning, but not in every instance. One glaring example was 1964 when the Yanks were the AL Champs, but drew less people than the last place Mets team with 109 losses. Your own figures disprove your premise that there is no room for the Mets in NY. In the 47 years when they have co-existed, the Yanks have a only the slightest yearly attendance advantage over the Mets despite having a much more successful 47 year history in terms of Division, League and World Championships. Your original argument was not that NY was not an NL city, but rather there was no room for the Mets in NY. Your own research refutes your premise.

[Wells]

2006, 2008

 

I know it's recent but there are 2 seasons

[a700hitter]

2006, 2008

 

I know it's recent but there are 2 seasons

Yes, they had identical records in those seasons and the yankees had more attendance.

[yankees228]

I think if you check the attendance figures you will find that there were a number of seasons where the Yankees finished as high or higher than the Mets in the standings' date=' but finished behind the Mets in attendance. I don't think there is a single season when the yankees had more attendance, but finished as as low or lower than the Mets in the standings. Generally, the attendance has related to winning, but not in every instance. One glaring example was 1964 when the Yanks were the AL Champs, but drew less people than the last place Mets team with 109 losses. Your own figures disprove your premise that there is no room for the Mets in NY. In the 47 years when they have co-existed, the Yanks have a only the slightest yearly attendance advantage over the Mets despite having a much more successful 47 year history in terms of Division, League and World Championships. Your original argument was not that NY was not an NL city, but rather there was no room for the Mets in NY. Your own research refutes your premise.[/quote']

 

Don't you think 1964 probably had more to do with the fact that it was Shea's first year than anything else?

[a700hitter]

Don't you think 1964 probably had more to do with the fact that it was Shea's first year than anything else?

That's certainly part of it, but the Yanks did win the AL and the Mets came in last losing 109 games and outdrew the Yankees by more than 30% (400,000 fans). To me that is pretty astounding. In 1976 when the New Yankee Stadium opened they outdrew the Mets, but the Yankees won the AL that season and the Mets finished 15 games out of first.