Cardinals hire McGwire as hitting coach

[Cliff]

Yet another argument that is fundamentally wrong.

 

XBH's are XBH's, so if you hit 90, but 70 of them are homers, that's somehow supposed to be a bad thing?

 

ROFLCOPTER!

 

BTW, Mcgwire DID hit 91 XBH in his 1998 season.

 

But he only hit 20 'cause homers don't count. amirite?

 

No, its not fundamentally wrong. It supports that Mark McGwire had the ability to hit a homerun and thats just about it.

[Dipre]

Okay' date=' I'm sorry.. he could hit homeruns and walk. You win. He is a two dimensional hitter. Myy bad. So I guess the fact he struckout [b']1/3rd of the time means nothing. =)[/b]

 

It DOES mean nothing.

 

So i have a question, what is more important in the game of baseball than getting on base? =)

[Dipre]

No' date=' its not fundamentally wrong. It supports that Mark McGwire had the ability to hit a homerun and thats just about it.[/quote']

 

Hit homeruns and get on base.

 

They are independent skills. Therefore, the entire thought process is wrong.

[Cliff]

It's not his fault if the guys in front of him aren't getting on, or the guys behind him aren't knocking him in.

 

As for the strikeout argument, that's such a minor thing. In most cases, an out is an out. With McGwire's speed, it's probably a good thing that some of those outs were strikeouts.

 

Wtfux0rz?! Dude, seriously.. those strikeouts do not matter? So you're trying to rationalize his ability to strikeout as a good thing because he was slow? Wow, okay.

[Dipre]

Wtfux0rz?! Dude' date=' seriously.. those strikeouts do not matter? So you're trying to rationalize his ability to strikeout as a good thing because he was slow? Wow, okay.[/quote']

 

lolwut?

 

He just told you an out is an out.

 

And that's right.

 

An out is an out.

[yankees228]

Wtfux0rz?! Dude' date=' seriously.. those strikeouts do not matter? So you're trying to rationalize his ability to strikeout as a good thing because he was slow? Wow, okay.[/quote']

 

Think about it. In most situations an out is an out. Sometimes outs are more productive than your typical out (scoring or moving a runner along), but sometimes outs are even worse than your typical out (balls in play that result in two outs). The reason I brought up McGwire's speed was that, in some situations, it was probably better that he just strike out, instead of hitting a ground ball.

 

The strikeouts, while they do mean something, have little meaning compared to many other factors.

[Dipre]

Think about it. In most situations an out is an out. Sometimes outs are more productive than your typical out (scoring or moving a runner along), but sometimes outs are even worse than your typical out (balls in play that result in two outs). The reason I brought up McGwire's speed was that, in some situations, it was probably better that he just strike out, instead of hitting a ground ball.

 

The strikeouts, while they do mean something, have little meaning compared to many other factors.

 

Power, getting on base perhaps?

[yankees228]

Look, this is pretty pointless right now. Dipre and I value some statistics higher than Cliff does. Cliff values some different statistics higher than Dipre and I do. No one's opinion are going to change at this point.

[Cliff]

It DOES mean nothing.

 

So i have a question, what is more important in the game of baseball than getting on base? =)

 

Getting on base doesn't mean jackshit if you don't score. That simple. With his lack of baserunning abilities and lack of speed, he was NOT a threat on the basepaths.

 

He was responsible for getting on base 2,943 times. He scored 1,167 times. 583 came from hitting homeruns. 584 runs scored any other time.

 

Subtract homeruns, 2360 times on base, he scored 584 times. While walking 1317 times. if I was a pitcher, I would have no problem pitching around Mark McGwire. I'd take my chances of having him on the bases instead of hitting a homerun off me.

 

McGwire averaged 36.5 runs scored a season if you do not include his homeruns. That includes his walks & hits minus homeruns. Like I said.. his walks dont mean jackshit.

 

Edit: And since you're so fascinated with walks & power.. seriously. Do you not think that his power ability had *NOTHING* to do with the amount of walks he had? C'mon dude.. be real.

[Dipre]

Getting on base doesn't mean jackshit if you don't score. That simple. With his lack of baserunning abilities and lack of speed, he was NOT a threat on the basepaths.

 

He was responsible for getting on base 2,943 times. He scored 1,167 times. 583 came from hitting homeruns. 584 runs scored any other time.

 

Subtract homeruns, 2360 times on base, he scored 584 times. While walking 1317 times. if I was a pitcher, I would have no problem pitching around Mark McGwire. I'd take my chances of having him on the bases instead of hitting a homerun off me.

 

McGwire averaged 36.5 runs scored a season if you do not include his homeruns. That includes his walks & hits minus homeruns. Like I said.. his walks dont mean jackshit.

 

Yet another illogical argument.

 

If he gets on base, it's not his fault his teammates don't drive him in.

 

The most important aspect of offense is not making outs. And when you get on base you don't make an out. It's really that simple.

[yankees228]

Look' date=' this is pretty pointless right now. Dipre and I value some statistics higher than Cliff does. Cliff values some different statistics higher than Dipre and I do. No one's opinion are going to change at this point.[/quote']

 

Not going anywhere.

[Dipre]

Not going anywhere.

 

You're pretty fly (For a Yanks fan).

[Cliff]

Yet another illogical argument.

 

If he gets on base, it's not his fault his teammates don't drive him in.

 

The most important aspect of offense is not making outs. And when you get on base you don't make an out. It's really that simple.

 

So I'm going to assume Mark McGwire was *NEVER* pitched around at all, correct? I guess hs ability to hit homeruns with the lack of his teams ability to drive him in did not matter at all? So the fact that his .obp and .ops was high, has nothing to do with the fact he was a power hitter, who had no one in the lineup to protect him to drive him in after utilizing that awesome hitters eye of his. Works for me.

[Dipre]

So I'm going to assume Mark McGwire was *NEVER* pitched around at all' date=' correct? I guess hs ability to hit homeruns with the lack of his teams ability to drive him in did not matter at all? So the fact that his .obp and .ops was high, has nothing to do with the fact he was a power hitter, who had no one in the lineup to protect him to drive him in after utilizing that awesome hitters eye of his. Works for me.[/quote']

 

*yawn*.

 

Read couple posts above.

[Cliff]

*yawn*.

 

Read couple posts above.

 

*yawn* I did.. he's still a one dimensional hitter.

[Dipre]

*yawn* I did.. he's still a one dimensional hitter.

 

OBP champ.

 

MLB.COM has that stat.

[Cliff]

MLB.COM has a lot of stats.. they have a whole entire database of stats. Whats your point? Like I said.. you're seriously going to put me down because I used MLB.COM to look up McGwire's stats? Thats real lame..

 

I'm not putting bank on McGwire's OBP.. not at all. It doesn't mean s*** to me if he doesn't cross the plate.. especially with the inability to score if the ball doesn't land beyond the fence.

 

*AGAIN* McGwire scored 36.5 times a season in his career if you eliminate his homeruns. McGwire was pitched around... a lot of power hitters are pitched around. OBP is going to be up.. especially when you have no one in the lineup to protect you.

[kreinbihl34]

MLB.COM has a lot of stats.. they have a whole entire database of stats. Whats your point? Like I said.. you're seriously going to put me down because I used MLB.COM to look up McGwire's stats? Thats real lame..

 

I'm not putting bank on McGwire's OBP.. not at all. It doesn't mean s*** to me if he doesn't cross the plate.. especially with the inability to score if the ball doesn't land beyond the fence.

 

*AGAIN* McGwire scored 36.5 times a season in his career if you eliminate his homeruns. McGwire was pitched around... a lot of power hitters are pitched around. OBP is going to be up.. especially when you have no one in the lineup to protect you.

 

So for the hell of it and because I want to be amused, what all do you consider to be important in a hitter?

[BSN07]

I'm cool with Big Mac coming back. I think he got a semi raw deal with the whole steroid issue. No matter what side your on, you have to admit to some extent the MLB knew about the Steroids and ignored it and road Mark and Sammy as they brought baseball back to greener pastures. And then turn their backs on them and let them take the heat when it became an issue.

 

McGwire was a pretty decent hitter with a good eye. Teaching patients and pitch selection will only help St. Louis's line up. Bringing Big Mac back has a lot of intangibles too. He has worked with Holliday. it could have been part of the negotiations in the Larussa dealings. It's been long enough and enough other big name players have been outed to were McGwire should be able to coach and not be the focal point of the team. I like this move.

[VA Sox Fan]

I'm cool with Big Mac coming back. I think he got a semi raw deal with the whole steroid issue. No matter what side your on, you have to admit to some extent the MLB knew about the Steroids and ignored it and road Mark and Sammy as they brought baseball back to greener pastures. And then turn their backs on them and let them take the heat when it became an issue.

 

McGwire was a pretty decent hitter with a good eye. Teaching patients and pitch selection will only help St. Louis's line up. Bringing Big Mac back has a lot of intangibles too. He has worked with Holliday. it could have been part of the negotiations in the Larussa dealings. It's been long enough and enough other big name players have been outed to were McGwire should be able to coach and not be the focal point of the team. I like this move.

 

Me too. Good for McGuire.

 

A lot of players who weren't "great" can be good coaches/managers. Playing well and teaching well are 2 different things.

[Dipre]

So for the hell of it and because I want to be amused' date=' what all do you consider to be important in a hitter?[/quote']

 

Apparently not making outs isn't the most important aspect of offense in the Cliff-i-verse.

 

Lol.

[CalvnHobs6]

Dipre and Cliff -

I know I don't moderate too often, but stop it. You don't need to insult each other each post. A forum works better if folks discuss their disagreements intelligently without resorting to this.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

 

A lot of players who weren't "great" can be good coaches/managers. Playing well and teaching well are 2 different things.

 

I was going to say this. A lot of the coaches out there now didn't have good careers but are coaches just fine. Knowledge and talent are not the same thing.

[Emmz]

Apparently not making outs isn't the most important aspect of offense in the Cliff-i-verse.

 

Lol.

 

Reminds me of PWNdroia for some reason.

[Dojji]

Dipre involved in another crapfest with yet another Talksox poster?

 

Naw. Never happen.

 

McGwire's career slashstats are .263/.394/.588. A .263 average isn't great, but it's not bad enough that McGuire is a "one-dimensional" hitter. And of course, his other offensive skills are off the chart

 

Looking at the number of times in his career that Mcgwire was hurt and didn't play a complete season or played poorly, you have to wonder what he could have done if he hadn't taken that time off

[Dipre]

Dipre involved in another crapfest with yet another Talksox poster?

 

Naw. Never happen.

 

McGwire's career slashstats are .263/.394/.588. A .263 average isn't great, but it's not bad enough that McGuire is a "one-dimensional" hitter. And of course, his other offensive skills are off the chart

 

Looking at the number of times in his career that Mcgwire was hurt and didn't play a complete season or played poorly, you have to wonder what he could have done if he hadn't taken that time off

 

I'm reporting this to the mods.

 

You're obviously trying to start s*** here.

[Dojji]

You go ahead and do that. It beats your three-parts-insult, one-part-argument standard fare.

 

When I'm not trying to start crap, I for one can keep the crap out of my posts.

 

I'm done anyway. Go do your thing.

[Dipre]

You go ahead and do that. It beats your three-parts-insult, one-part-argument standard fare.

 

I'm done anyway. Go do your thing.

 

Thanks for driving the point home, Monsieur Smug.

[Emmz]

More hit-and-run smug attacks by Dojji

[Dojji]

More hit-and-run smug attacks by Dojji

 

Well of course. When you break the rules it doesn't pay to drag it out. I feel it did need saying though. Dipre's getting himself a bit of a reputation as the board's champion flamethrower, sooner or later someone was going to call him on it. And frankly, I've taken worse than a bit of "drive by smug" in my time on this forum. I figure the number of times Dipre's called me a retard, an idiot, etc. give me the right to make a at least couple points about it, and about him.