Youkilis as a defensive 3B

[Dojji]

What's the consensus on the quality of Youkilis' defense at 3B Would he be a viable long-term (IE permanent) option there when Lowell moved on?

 

I see good numbers in the metrics I know how to handle, but i don't know everything about defensive metrics, and this will be a theme in our offseason discussion -- as it has been each of the last several years. You don't need a crystal ball to see that this offseason will feature a multitude of threads involving Lowell playing somewhere else, Youkilis playing full time 3B and whoever the mancrush power hitting first baseman of the hour hour is coming to Boston (seems to be Adrian Gonzalez this week)

 

Thing is, it's a bit more realistic this time if only because Lowell is going into the last year of his deal. The encumbering contract is not such an issue now and it is very hard to find a quality 3B -- getting a return for Lowell is more possible than it has been in the past. To feel safe doing that though, you do need Youks as the full time 3B and Lowrie as the backup.

 

So if a scenario like that happens, disregard the offense, how satisfied would people be with Youkilis as a full time defensive 3B and how likely are we to wind up demanding a better option at the hot corner if we actually go ahead and make that move.

 

EDIT: OK, OK, typo fixed. Jerks.

[Dipre]

What's the consensus on the quality of Youkilis' defense at 1B/ Would he be a viable long-term (IE permanent) option there when Lowell moved on?

 

*Sigh*

[redsoxrules]

lol

[example1]

He would be a good defensive 3B, not great. His bat and OPS would still be fine. He's a natural hitter and someone any lineup would want to have, so keeping himself afloat at 3B would be more than adequate. Assuming he moves to 3B because there is a power-hitting 1B on the team I'd say it is a no-brainer and something that makes Youkilis uniquely skilled and valuable for this team.

[Dojji]

My bad on the typo, now get over it.

[BoSox21]

I'd rather not see Youkilis at 3B long-term for the simplistic reason that he is so gifted defensively at first. But it's a lot easier to acquire a power bat that plays first as opposed to the third so seeing as Youkilis plays a solid enough third base, the answer really depends on who's playing first long-term. For example if the team acquires Adrian, it would be an absolute pleasure to have Youkilis at third.

[ORS]

His bat plays up at 3B. If they can get an impact bat at 1B, like they could have last offseason, they should, like they should have last offseason.

[Dipre]

I'd rather not see Youkilis at 3B long-term for the simplistic reason that he is so gifted defensively at first. But it's a lot easier to acquire a power bat that plays first as opposed to the third so seeing as Youkilis plays a solid enough third base' date=' the answer really depends on who's playing first long-term. For example if the team acquires Adrian, it would be an absolute pleasure to have Youkilis at third.[/quote']

 

If they get Gonzales, they can play Youk at LF for all i care. :thumbsup:

[Dojji]

On a related note, what do you think Lowell has for trade value? Think you could get someone to take on his salary?

 

Informing this discussion: The Jays got a struggling but interesting Edwin Encarnacion for Scott Rolen, but I don't know how much salary the Reds took back.

[SCM33]

His bat plays up at 3B. If they can get an impact bat at 1B' date=' like they could have last offseason, they should, like they should have last offseason.[/quote']

 

Agree with this.

[jsc1973]

My impression is that he is average or maybe slightly below average defensively at third. But if he's minus-2 or minus-5 runs on defense at third, he's still one of the best players in the league there because he is a great hitter. As long as the added defensive responsibilities don't affect his hitting, I see no reason not to play him there. Besides, if you pick up some slugger who is a defensive liability to play first, you can always move Youk over there to finish up the game. That's not a problem with Gonzalez, but it would be with some other options.

 

Left field should be out of the question. He's done it before in a pinch, but I don't think he likes being out there. I don't think you put a player where he's not comfortable defensively.

[Dipre]

My impression is that he is average or maybe slightly below average defensively at third. But if he's minus-2 or minus-5 runs on defense at third, he's still one of the best players in the league there because he is a great hitter. As long as the added defensive responsibilities don't affect his hitting, I see no reason not to play him there. Besides, if you pick up some slugger who is a defensive liability to play first, you can always move Youk over there to finish up the game. That's not a problem with Gonzalez, but it would be with some other options.

 

Left field should be out of the question. He's done it before in a pinch, but I don't think he likes being out there. I don't think you put a player where he's not comfortable defensively.

 

*Sigh*

[BSN07]

You have to think Lowell has some sort of value. The Rolen trade is comparable IMO. I would expect Lowell to be 100% come ST. There is still an inherent risk with him obviously. But one could argue that about Rolen as well.

 

If the Sox eat a little salary they could probably get a nice return. I think Seattle will be needing a 3B next season;) Package him up with Dice-K and a couple young prospects for, well you know who:dunno:

[redsoxrules]

His bat plays up at 3B. If they can get an impact bat at 1B' date=' like they could have last offseason, they should, like they should have last offseason.[/quote']

 

Yep, they should have gotten Tex

[BSN07]

My impression is that he is average or maybe slightly below average defensively at third. But if he's minus-2 or minus-5 runs on defense at third, he's still one of the best players in the league there because he is a great hitter. As long as the added defensive responsibilities don't affect his hitting, I see no reason not to play him there. Besides, if you pick up some slugger who is a defensive liability to play first, you can always move Youk over there to finish up the game. That's not a problem with Gonzalez, but it would be with some other options.

 

Left field should be out of the question. He's done it before in a pinch, but I don't think he likes being out there. I don't think you put a player where he's not comfortable defensively.

 

_ail...

 

 

 

 

This is only meant to be a joke, nothing more

[Dipre]

You have to think Lowell has some sort of value. The Rolen trade is comparable IMO. I would expect Lowell to be 100% come ST. There is still an inherent risk with him obviously. But one could argue that about Rolen as well.

 

If the Sox eat a little salary they could probably get a nice return. I think Seattle will be needing a 3B next season;) Package him up with Dice-K and a couple young prospects for, well you know who:dunno:

 

Nope.

 

Lowell would not be part of a trade for you-know-who.

[BSN07]

Nope.

 

Lowell would not be part of a trade for you-know-who.

 

Why not? I mean obviously we are just shooting the breeze here. But if Seattle trades Felix there will be some backlash. But if Seattle were to get Dice-K and Lowell back, the FO could still claim they are still trying to contend. Add in Anderson for a Power Hitting prospect and a young pitcher like Bowden or Kelly and that would be a haul for Seattle. Then add the 2 picks they would get when Lowell leaves town. Or they even have the option of trying to keep him.

[Dipre]

Why not? I mean obviously we are just shooting the breeze here. But if Seattle trades Felix there will be some backlash. But if Seattle were to get Dice-K and Lowell back' date=' the FO could still claim they are still trying to contend. Add in Anderson for a Power Hitting prospect and a young pitcher like Bowden or Kelly and that would be a haul for Seattle. Then add the 2 picks they would get when Lowell leaves town. Or they even have the option of trying to keep him.[/quote']

 

Lowell is an expensive player in the last year of his contract.

 

Think about it, if you're trading someone the caliber of Felix, you don't take a single stopgap in return.

[BSN07]

Why not when he's a WS MVP, a club house type guy? That's one of the bonus's really. He would allow IMO an easier sell to the fan base for the FO. If they get all rookies back it looks as though they are sending the message of rebuilding mode. They make a trade for a couple veterans and 2 or 3 legit prospects it send a different message. More of a retooling on the go. Trading one spot to fill out an overall better team.

 

And I don't think it hard to believe the Sox eating some of his salary. If it netted them Felix, they might pay the whole damn thing.

[Dipre]

Why not when he's a WS MVP, a club house type guy? That's one of the bonus's really. He would allow IMO an easier sell to the fan base for the FO. If they get all rookies back it looks as though they are sending the message of rebuilding mode. They make a trade for a couple veterans and 2 or 3 legit prospects it send a different message. More of a retooling on the go. Trading one spot to fill out an overall better team.

 

And i don't think it hard to believe the Sox eating some of his salary. If it netted them Felix, they might pay the whole damn thing.

 

You're stretching like a rubber band, champ.

 

WS MVP and club house guy don't matter to a rebuilding team.

 

What they need is cheap, young high-level talent, and Mike Lowell is the polar opposite of that.

[BSN07]

If Seattle is indeed in all out rebuilding mode, as in not interested in 2010, I would most certainly have to re think my offer. My offer is more towards they are trading away an ace, but bringing back players that allow them to contend in 2010 and beyond.

[Dipre]

If Seattle is indeed in all out rebuilding mode' date=' as in not interested in 2010, I would most certainly have to re think my offer. My offer is more towards they are trading away an ace, but bringing back players that allow them to contend in 2010 and beyond.[/quote']

 

They won't contend in '10, champ.

[BSN07]

They won't contend in '10' date=' champ.[/quote']

 

I know this. Seattle's FO probably know this. Doesn't necessarily mean they want to shout it to the fan base from the mountain top lol

 

Besides if they got Dice-K, Lowell and added a couple key FA they could be a pretty decent club. I mean LAA is losing Lackey, Figgins, Vlad and Abreau most likely. Texas is broke and Oakland is rebuilding. They could contend in their division if they played it right.

[Dipre]

I know this. Seattle's FO probably know this. Doesn't necessarily mean they want to shout it to the fan base from the mountain top lol

 

Besides if they got Dice-K, Lowell and added a couple key FA they could be a pretty decent club. I mean LAA is losing Lackey, Figgins, Vlad and Abreau most likely. Texas is broke and Oakland is rebuilding. They could contend in their division if they played it right.

 

Every key player in Texas is under club control, LAA has money, so why do you think they won't re-sign their FA's?

 

Again, you're grasping at straws with this Lowell to Seattle thing.

 

Stop it.

[CrespoBlows]

Yeah, what the f***?

 

Lowell + Dice K for f***ing Felix Hernandez? $20 million in added expenditures for the Mariners? And they're supposed to give us f***ing Felix Hernandez? How does this make sense to you? Pay attention to the trade deadline, and tell me how often a trade like this goes down.

[BSN07]

Every key player in Texas is under club control, LAA has money, so why do you think they won't re-sign their FA's?

 

Again, you're grasping at straws with this Lowell to Seattle thing.

 

Stop it.

 

This whole conversation has been grasping at straws. Why wait to point it out now?

 

LAA isn't signing Lackey. The acqusition on Kazmir closed the book on that IMO. Vlad is a shell of his former self. Figgons could come back but I see him going elsewhere. Abreau is a candidate to return. LAA has some potential holes. I'm just saying it's not impossible for Seattle to close the gap.

[CrespoBlows]

This whole conversation has been grasping at straws. Why wait to point it out now?

 

LAA isn't signing Lackey. The acqusition on Kazmir closed the book on that IMO. Vlad is a shell of his former self. Figgons could come back but I see him going elsewhere. Abreau is a candidate to return. LAA has some potential holes. I'm just saying it's not impossible for Seattle to close the gap.

 

So you propose they trade the ace of their staff for Lowell and Dice-K?

[BSN07]

Yeah, what the f***?

 

Lowell + Dice K for f***ing Felix Hernandez? $20 million in added expenditures for the Mariners? And they're supposed to give us f***ing Felix Hernandez? How does this make sense to you? Pay attention to the trade deadline, and tell me how often a trade like this goes down.

 

Yes just Dice-K and Lowell. Thanks for joining in Crespo....<_>

 

I said Dice-K/Lowell/+ prospects the ones I mentioned as being possible are Anderson/Bowden(Kelly)+1 + 2 picks for Lowell after 2010.

 

That is a nice haul. And far from just Dice-K and Lowell. I even suggested the Sox eat some to all of Lowell's remaining salary if need be.

[CrespoBlows]

Yes just Dice-K and Lowell. Thanks for joining in Crespo....<_>

 

I said Dice-K/Lowell/+ prospects the ones I mentioned as being possible are Anderson/Bowden(Kelly)+1 + 2 picks for Lowell after 2010.

 

That is a nice haul. And far from just Dice-K and Lowell. I even suggested the Sox eat some to all of Lowell's remaining salary if need be.

 

They won't want Lowell and Dice-K. They'll probably ask for four to five top prospects.

[BSN07]

They won't want Lowell and Dice-K. They'll probably ask for four to five top prospects.

 

Did you even read what we have been talking about?

 

I've already said that if they are in rebuilding mode then yes a package of 4 or 5 top prospects will probably be more attractive to them.

 

But if they are looking for one that helps them next year as well as down the road then the Dice-K/Lowell+ prospects deal I would think would be attractive to them.