Red Sox Put in Waiver Claim on Nats SS Guzman

[P3dro1a15]

Deep is not infinite.

I think it's deep enough to sustain 8 million. If he turns out to be another Lugo, what did Lugo's contract really cost us, It's not like we would have signed Tex if we didn't have that money wrapped up in Lugo

[Dojji]

If he doesn't cost us games by throwing the ball into the stands or RF i'll consider that an upgrade.

 

You're short-sighted then. A couple isolated errors is enough to get you to call for blowing $12M on a below average baseball player whose only saving grace is that he pretends to play shortstop?

[Dojji]

I think it's deep enough to sustain 8 million. If he turns out to be another Lugo' date=' what did Lugo's contract really cost us, It's not like we would have signed Tex if we didn't have that money wrapped up in Lugo[/quote']

 

How do we know that? Seriously, how do you know that if we'd gone in a different direction in the 2006-2007 offseason the money wouldn't have been earmarked for Teixeira?

 

It is far more true that we don't know what the opportunity costs of a contract like Lugo's are, than that they don't exist.

[a700hitter]

I hope the Sox don't land Guzman just so i can rub it in on Doiji's face when Lowrie doesn't come back/contribute and we're stuck with Nick Green and Chris f***ing Woodward in the middle of a pennant race.

But there might not be a penant race if we stand pat at SS.

[a700hitter]

This team will be weaker now and going forward if Cristian Guzman becomes its everyday shortstop.

Step away from the crack pipe.

[Dojji]

But there might not be a penant race if we stand pat at SS.

 

There might not be a pennant race if we stand pat at DH, either. I don't see too many people screaming for a panic move.

 

I'm not against making moves that give us a better shot this year. I'm against Guzman because he doesn't give us the best shot to win in 2010.

[redsoxrules]

There might not be a pennant race if we stand pat at DH, either. I don't see too many people screaming for a panic move.

 

I'm not against making moves that give us a better shot this year. I'm against Guzman because he doesn't give us the best shot to win in 2010.

 

And DL lowrie does?

 

Having Lowrie being on the DL this often at his young age isnt exciting me at the moment

[Dojji]

Step away from the crack pipe.

 

If there's a crack pipe between me and you, it's because it's between your lips.

 

Guzman by no means provides enough offense to justify the defensive downgrade from Green OR the bloated salary, much less both.

 

Yes, I said the defensive DOWNGRADE from GREEN. Take that however you like. The numbers back it up.

 

I'm not happy with our tandem at SS either. That said, getting stuck with Guzman is worse. We might as well have kept Lugo at that point.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I'm not against making moves that give us a better shot this year. I'm against Guzman because he doesn't give us the best shot to win in 2010.

 

 

What is the better option then, GM?

[a700hitter]

How do we know that? Seriously, how do you know that if we'd gone in a different direction in the 2006-2007 offseason the money wouldn't have been earmarked for Teixeira?

 

It is far more true that we don't know what the opportunity costs of a contract like Lugo's are, than that they don't exist.

You are out of control. My god, this is a SS acquisition being discussed, not a new stadium. Get a grip. Guzman is way better than the suck we have. You'll enjoy watching him play. He's good. Let the team of accountants andauditors worry about the $. Try to enjoy the new toy. If they miscalculate on the $, they'll raise next year's ticket prices a tad. There's a waiting list for season tickets so they don't have to skimp. If you don't go to the games, why would you care?

[redsoxrules]

What is the better option then' date=' GM?[/quote']

 

LOWRIE!!!!!

[Dojji]

And DL lowrie does?

 

Having Lowrie being on the DL this often at his young age isnt exciting me at the moment

 

Lowrie is at least as good a risk as Guzman, is far cheaper, and is better defensively. There is no reason to prefer Guzman to Lowrie if both are healthy.

[Dojji]

What is the better option then' date=' GM?[/quote']

 

Hanley Ramirez. If we don't have to suck down Guzman's contract, we have both the pieces and the money to go after the guy in the offseason. Getting Guzman makes getting Hanley trickier because you have to figure out whether and how to get him out of the way.

[redsoxrules]

Lowrie is at least as good a risk as Guzman' date=' is far cheaper, and is better defensively. There is no reason to prefer Guzman to Lowrie [b']if[/b] both are healthy.

 

thats a big IF there

[a700hitter]

There might not be a pennant race if we stand pat at DH, either. I don't see too many people screaming for a panic move.

 

I'm not against making moves that give us a better shot this year. I'm against Guzman because he doesn't give us the best shot to win in 2010.

You are comparing a slumping Ortiz to Nick Green and Chris Woodward. You need to take a step back for some perspective.

[P3dro1a15]

Well If they do end up with Guzman I really hope you are wrong and he preforms. I haven't completely given up on Lowrie but I truly don't see him coming back strong or helping us either. Like I said before we are stuck with a platoon of suck at SS unless we make a trade. I wish Casey Kelly was as good of a SS as he is a pitcher, he is coming up as a pitcher right?

[redsoxrules]

Hanley Ramirez. If we don't have to suck down Guzman's contract' date=' we have both the pieces and the money to go after the guy in the offseason. Getting Guzman makes getting Hanley trickier because you have to figure out whether and how to get him out of the way.[/quote']

 

Ramirez is going to cost at least 4 prospect

[Dojji]

So? We have them.

 

That's what prospects are for, either to develop themselves into strong options to the team, or to be traded for another team for a SUPERIOR option.

 

Cristian Guzman is not a superior option.

[ManRam]

Hanley Ramirez. If we don't have to suck down Guzman's contract' date=' we have both the pieces and the money to go after the guy in the offseason. Getting Guzman makes getting Hanley trickier because you have to figure out whether and how to get him out of the way.[/quote']

 

We have the money and pieces to get Pujols too... Doesn't mean he's available.

[a700hitter]

I wish Casey Kelly was as good of a SS as he is a pitcher' date=' he is coming up as a pitcher right?[/quote']He won't be coming up as anything before 2011.

[CrespoBlows]

So you contend that we will not need to bring in a SS for '10?

 

I told you, if you can make that point for me, i will immediately relinquish my point.

 

Another thing, Christian Guzman has better range at short than Green does.

 

His arm is more accurate, so that's why i said you make a case for Green.

 

And i HATE to sound like Gom, but i've seen an awful lot of Guzman over the years, and i have to say it's not even close in terms of range at the 6 position.

 

Guzman constantly scrapes the bottom in terms of UZR and FRAA. He's not Derek Jeter bad, but he's down there.

 

The Red Sox should go after Hanley Ramirez in 2010.

[Dojji]

We have the money and pieces to get Pujols too... Doesn't mean he's available.

 

This is the Florida Marlins we're talking about. Every player on that roster is available and the currency is always prospects.

[redsoxrules]

So? We have them.

 

That's what prospects are for, either to develop themselves into strong options to the team, or to be traded for another team for a SUPERIOR option.

 

Cristian Guzman is not a superior option.

 

ok ...so Bard, Buchholz, kelly and bowden? cause you know thats what would be the price tag

[a700hitter]

This is one of the stupidest threads of all time. Debating whether or not we can afford the Nationals SS is just ridiculous. All that is important is whethr he is an upgrade over what we have. IMO, he is a substantial upgrade.

[CrespoBlows]

Ramirez is going to cost at least 4 prospect

 

He's worth it.

[Dojji]

ok ...so Bard' date=' Buchholz, kelly and bowden? cause you know thats what would be the price tag[/quote']

 

I'm on board. I'd rather not lose Bard, but you trade quality players for quality players and this one doesn't hurt our system that badly.

 

They'll probably want at least one hitter though, I'd send 'em Reddick instead of Bard. That's just me though.

[ManRam]

He's worth it.

 

f*** yea. I'd give any 4 prospects on the team for him./

[Dojji]

This is one of the stupidest threads of all time. Debating whether or not we can afford the Nationals SS is just ridiculous. All that is important is whethr he is an upgrade over what we have. IMO' date=' he is a substantial upgrade.[/quote']

 

That is NOT all that is important. Opportunity cost in 2010 is also important. That's most of what I'm arguing against.

 

BTW the small upgrade we get from Guzman over Green isn't worth the 4M he's still due this year either.

 

EDIT: Removed a pretty ridiculous typo

[Dojji]

You are comparing a slumping Ortiz to Nick Green and Chris Woodward. You need to take a step back for some perspective.

 

Not really. Green is producing far below average in a position that can be carried by a good defender. Ortiz is producing far below average offense in a position where offense is the ONLY thing. If anything, the more critical hole is DH.

[CrespoBlows]

This is one of the stupidest threads of all time. Debating whether or not we can afford the Nationals SS is just ridiculous. All that is important is whethr he is an upgrade over what we have. IMO' date=' he is a substantial upgrade.[/quote']

 

I think the debate is whether Guzman is worth $10 million, and how huge an upgrade he is. With his horrendous play at SS, having no power or patience, and moving to the most difficult division in baseball he might not the substantial upgrade we are expecting.