7/12 vs. Mark "Mayor of Cooperstown" Teahen

[a700hitter]

I WOULD have a problem with Nomar at the dish in a big game against the Yankees because DESPITE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY' date=' Nomar continues to swing wildly at first pitches and has never taken on the Sox philosophy of hitting. [/quote']... so you would rather see Bates than Nomar batting against Mo with two outs and the tying and winning runs on second and third in a game that would decide first place? Is that what you are saying or am I going to get a response about Seattle again or something else equally irrelevant to the Red Sox? I'd rather see Nomar at the plate in that situation this season. That's my opinion and you are free to disagree.

 

You say that I know nothing about Bates, but you apparently know a lot about Nomar's training regimen and attribute his past successes to cheating. Do you know that for a fact? Aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

[a700hitter]

That was almost comical. What was Baldelli doing? He can still run' date=' can't he?[/quote']I've noticed that towards the end of games he can't run as hard. Earlier in the season, Tito went out with the trainer for a visit after he kind of jogged late in a game. He has also been unbale to finish certain games. He has a serious physical condition.

[Jasonbay44]

Great game by Beckett.

[The_Destroyah]

Beckett with the 94 pitch SHO CG and his 100th win on a beautiful hook...

[a700hitter]

Beautiful game by Beckett. He is not just a thrower anymore. He'll let the batters get themselves out with their own aggressiveness.

[The_Destroyah]

did you see the curve for the first pitch of that last AB, it was B-E-A-Utiful

[schillingouttheks]

... so you would rather see Bates than Nomar batting against Mo with two outs and the tying and winning runs on second and third in a game that would decide first place? Is that what you are saying or am I going to get a response about Seattle again or something else equally irrelevant to the Red Sox? I'd rather see Nomar at the plate in that situation this season. That's my opinion and you are free to disagree.

 

You say that I know nothing about Bates, but you apparently know a lot about Nomar's training regimen and attribute his past successes to cheating. Do you know that for a fact? Aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

 

I mean, I'd rather see Nomar I guess, but I doubt either one of them would be in the game in a situation like that, especially in a game of that importance. To me it's a wash personally, because the confidence I have in Nomar is not that much greater than the confidence I have in Bates.

[example1]

... so you would rather see Bates than Nomar batting against Mo with two outs and the tying and winning runs on second and third in a game that would decide first place? Is that what you are saying or am I going to get a response about Seattle again or something else equally irrelevant to the Red Sox? I'd rather see Nomar at the plate in that situation this season. That's my opinion and you are free to disagree.

 

You're building your team, and filling the precious roster spots on it, out of fear for one particular scenario? That seems rash.

 

I would rather have a hitter up who believes in the correct approach to hitting than sending Nomar in to swing wildly at the first pitch and pop out to the middle infielder.

 

Honestly though, I don't think there's any reason why EITHER of these guys would be in that situation. Nomar's not good enough to be the backup on this team, and Bates is there as a 3rd or 4th option.

 

Your scenario is a moot point.

 

You say that I know nothing about Bates, but you apparently know a lot about Nomar's training regimen and attribute his past successes to cheating. Do you know that for a fact? Aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

 

You have stated in the past that you don't follow prospects and don't really care about players who aren't in the majors yet. I have been following Bates since he was drafted. I doubt very much whether you have.

 

In terms of being hypocritical, I think that guessing that Nomar was using is an educated guess. I followed Nomar, I've looked at his numbers, I'm aware of the steroid era and the anomoly of SSs who hit in the high 300s with OPS above 1.000. He's been injury prone the last few years, he was absolutely ripped in his heyday, and he played at the height of steroid use on a team loaded with other users.

 

On the other hand, you have professed your lack of education (and interest) about the minor leagues and discussed in the past that it isn't worth spending your time on. Therefore I conclude that your determination that Bates isn't worth a bag of balls is a pretty uneducated guess...

 

 

My larger point summed is this:

 

Bates has 20-30 HR potential and is at a position of obvious need for this club currently and in the future. Nomar does not have that potential.

 

If this team were to trade a minor leaguer for Nomar I would want it to be a SP (where they are deep) and someone without too much upside. Kris Johnson or someone like that. They have at least 5 CF/OF prospects who all block each other, but who I would not trade for Nomar: Reddick, Kalish, Lin, Westmoreland and Fuentes. Perhaps a position of more depth or less upside.

[617_suffolkcounty_standup]

Great game to be at!!

[a700hitter]

You're building your team, and filling the precious roster spots on it, out of fear for one particular scenario? That seems rash.

 

I would rather have a hitter up who believes in the correct approach to hitting than sending Nomar in to swing wildly at the first pitch and pop out to the middle infielder.

 

Honestly though, I don't think there's any reason why EITHER of these guys would be in that situation. Nomar's not good enough to be the backup on this team, and Bates is there as a 3rd or 4th option.

 

Your scenario is a moot point.

The funny thing about a weak bench is that it is the big situation that exposes it, not the Sunday afternoon against KC. It is not moot point. I remember the Sox having a fat waste named Bob Bailey batting against Goose Gossage in the one game playoff in 1978, so don't tell me that it can't happen.

 

 

You have stated in the past that you don't follow prospects and don't really care about players who aren't in the majors yet.

The second part of this sentence is accurate insofar as I don't get emotionally excited about a player until I see him playing for the Red Sox. I've repeatedly told you that you should not conclude from that that I don't follow our prospects, but you keep making the same erroneous conclusion. You should know by now that I go to Spring Training every year (6 years in a row). Before I go, I read whatever i can about our prospects so I know who I am watching. I like to go during the first two weeks so I see most of the prospects before they get sent down. Nevertheless, I expect that you will continue with the same misrepresentations the next time we are discussing a prospect.

 

In terms of being hypocritical' date=' I think that guessing that Nomar was using is an [i']educated[/i] guess. I followed Nomar, I've looked at his numbers, I'm aware of the steroid era and the anomoly of SSs who hit in the high 300s with OPS above 1.000. He's been injury prone the last few years, he was absolutely ripped in his heyday, and he played at the height of steroid use on a team loaded with other users.

A lot of players break down as they get into their 30's, but apparently you have no problem of making accusations about cheating without evidence. I guess you are basing that on what you have observed and call that an educated guess, but when I offer an opinion about a player's abilities based on my observations him play you crucify me. Do I really need a stat to prove that Hinske is not a good OFer nor is Teahen?

 

On the other hand' date=' you have professed your lack of education (and interest) about the minor leagues and discussed in the past that it isn't worth spending your time on. Therefore I conclude that your determination that Bates isn't worth a bag of balls is a pretty uneducated guess...[/quote']Your premise is completely wrong so your conclusion is completely invalid. Despite having told you repeatedly that I read about and follow our prospects you continue to spout this erroneous premise.

 

My larger point summed is this:

 

Bates has 20-30 HR potential and is at a position of obvious need for this club currently and in the future. Nomar does not have that potential.

We really don't know if Bates will ever hold down a major league position for a full season, but you have him penciled in for 20-30 HRs. Maybe you are a little ahead of yourself?

 

If this team were to trade a minor leaguer for Nomar I would want it to be a SP (where they are deep) and someone without too much upside. Kris Johnson or someone like that. They have at least 5 CF/OF prospects who all block each other' date=' but who I would not trade for Nomar: Reddick, Kalish, Lin, Westmoreland and Fuentes. Perhaps a position of more depth or less upside.[/quote']I have said before that I was using Bates as an example. If they could get Nomar for something less, I have agreed that that would be fine, so you are making a point that didn't need to be made, because as you would say, it is moot.

[Dutchy]

Incredible game by Beckett. Nice to see the Red Sox offense producing again. And it was made even sweeter by the Yankees, Texas and Tampa all losing. We're up 3 in the division and 5.5 in the Wild Card.

[DrewDaGreat]

Beckett is full of win.

[example1]

The funny thing about a weak bench is that it is the big situation that exposes it, not the Sunday afternoon against KC. It is not moot point. I remember the Sox having a fat waste named Bob Bailey batting against Goose Gossage in the one game playoff in 1978, so don't tell me that it can't happen.

 

I don't doubt that the situation can happen, I just don't think it will. I think they will have options other than Bates and I'm sure you do too.

 

A lot of players break down as they get into their 30's, but apparently you have no problem of making accusations about cheating without evidence. I guess you are basing that on what you have observed and call that an educated guess, but when I offer an opinion about a player's abilities based on my observations him play you crucify me. Do I really need a stat to prove that Hinske is not a good OFer nor is Teahen?

 

What observations have you made about Aaron Bates a700?

 

Are you talking about the .364/.417/.545 line he's put up in his 5 games in Boston? Or are you talking about the ZERO ABs he had in Spring Training? Which pool of performance are your observations coming from? Have you watched a lot of his performances in AA or AAA?

 

Your premise is completely wrong so your conclusion is completely invalid. Despite having told you repeatedly that I read about and follow our prospects you continue to spout this erroneous premise.

 

I'm sorry a700. You clearly follow our prospects more than I gave you credit for.

 

We really don't know if Bates will ever hold down a major league position for a full season, but you have him penciled in for 20-30 HRs. Maybe you are a little ahead of yourself?

 

Yes, I penciled him in for 20-30 HRs. You got it! A potential output and expecting that he'll produce it are two totally different things... but you know that already so I don't need to tell you.

 

I have said before that I was using Bates as an example. If they could get Nomar for something less, I have agreed that that would be fine, so you are making a point that didn't need to be made, because as you would say, it is moot.

 

Is there someone who is worth less than a bag of balls?

[YAZMAN]

Is there someone who is worth less than a bag of balls?

 

Yes, Julio Lugo.

[Dipre]

Yes' date=' Julio Lugo.[/quote']

 

Actually, no.

 

He's worth a bag of balls, 5 bats and a 2 week-supply of Coppenhagen chewing tobacco.

 

Don't sell the man short.

[BoSox21]

just got home. didnt see any of the game but OMFG does it ever look like Beckett was dominant

[Dipre]

just got home. didnt see any of the game but OMFG does it ever look like Beckett was dominant

 

The mojo is strong within you, Canadian.

[a700hitter]

Is there someone who is worth less than a bag of balls?

Boy, that "bag of balls" line is still bothering you. I didn't use the "bag of balls" line until you said that bates could be a 4th or 5th piece of a package for a larger deal. Even I hadn't evaluated him so harshly. The 4th or 5th guy in a package is usually just a throw in that never amounts to much, hence the "bag of balls" reference. You were the one who judged him to be a throw in, not me.

[Dojji]

Bottom line, Bates just demonstrated a bit of potential usefulness. He will now go down to Pawtucket. If he hits there, we may see Bates again instead of Bailey the next time we need a righthander.

 

I nominate that we nickname Aaron Bates "Psycho." Just because.... you know... Bates.

[Dipre]

Bottom line, Bates just demonstrated a bit of potential usefulness. He will now go down to Pawtucket. If he hits there, we may see Bates again instead of Bailey the next time we need a righthander.

 

I nominate that we nickname Aaron Bates "Psycho." Just because.... you know... Bates.

 

How about no?

[Cocos Disciples]

Just because of that, I will never call him Psycho and will admonish those who do.

[TheKilo]

I have a lot of crow to eat this morning. Well done, Sox.

[VA Sox Fan]

To ALL of the newbies and occasional posters: BoSox21 will start the 7/17/09 game thread. Thanks.

Dreading the A.S. break, but it'll be good for the players.

[Dipre]

I have a lot of crow to eat this morning. Well done' date=' Sox.[/quote']

 

The Yanks were also swept by the Angels, so there's that as well.

[Dutchy]

Chen is a AAAA player. He goes to AAA and completely dominates. Then he gets brought up and sucks. He had a 3 game shutout streak when they called him up.

 

Sounds like Kei Igawa.