Chances of Nomar Coming Back to Boston?

[TheKilo]

All conversations here are pointless' date=' because we have no power to make anything happen.[/quote']

 

Do you refute anything I said though?

[example1]

As a 25 year old who has accomplished nothing beyond AA, does he have much of a major league future anywhere.

 

A guy with very little chance at a major league future is the perfect trading chip, if you can find someone to take him.

 

Nomar's last 2+ seasons:

 

2007: -0.2 WARP

2008: .9 WARP

2009: 0.0 WARP

 

I don't see much future here either...

 

Seriously, just because he doesn't have a clear shot at the Sox MLB club doesn't mean another team couldn't find a use for him (Bates).

[a700hitter]

Do you refute anything I said though?

Why should I bother to refute any assertions in a pointless conversation?

[TheKilo]

Why should I bother to refute any assertions in a pointless conversation?

 

Way to go sir, you made your own argument invalid.

 

Congrats.

[a700hitter]

Seriously' date=' just because he doesn't have a clear shot at the Sox MLB club doesn't mean another team couldn't find a use for him (Bates).[/quote']Do you think he has much market value? I don't think he could net us more than an over the hill player that is willing to take a bench role.

[a700hitter]

Way to go sir, you made your own argument invalid.

 

Congrats.

Glad to help

[Spudboy]

Do you think he has much market value? I don't think he could net us more than an over the hill player that is willing to take a bench role.

 

Oh. You mean to say Nomar.

 

 

Edit: Nomar still can hit. But the Sox have enough walking wounded. The net gain would be negligible.

 

Nice idea, though.

[a700hitter]

Oh. You mean to say Nomar.

 

 

Edit: Nomar still can hit. But the Sox have enough walking wounded. The net gain would be negligible.

 

Nice idea, though.

SO, we should hold onto this 25 year old lumbering guy Bates until he washes out of the minors and takes a job selling insurance?

[Dojji]

Exactly, 700. Glad you're beginning to see the sense of it.

[Spudboy]

SO' date=' we should hold onto this 25 year old lumbering guy Bates until he washes out of the minors and takes a job selling insurance?[/quote']

 

Honestly, I don't know. I've never scene him play. Other than the last two games on TV. Who here has really seen enough of Bates to make an assessment of his MLB viability?

He is where he is right now out of need. Not because he is some "can't miss" prospect.

 

 

Nomar's best days are clearly behind him. I've stated that he can still hit. Anyone can see that. But he just can not stay healthy long enough to make an impact. And putting him on the field increases the chances that he will incur another injury or aggravate an existing one.

Who need's that? Not the Sox.

 

If we acquire a player between now and the deadline, it should be someone who can add depth or replace a missing piece (Lowell, Lowrie). As much as I admire Nomar, He does not bring that capability to the Sox.

[example1]

Do you think he has much market value? I don't think he could net us more than an over the hill player that is willing to take a bench role.

 

As a piece of a larger deal I don't see why not... He wouldn't be the centerpiece of any big deal (except perhaps for a useless old player like Nomar) but he could be the 4th or 5th piece of a deal.

 

Look, nobody is saying he's a great player. I just think that all of the talent this team has should be used appropriately, and throwing away a decent young 1B with power for a CLEARLY DONE MLB player isn't the direction this team should go.

 

I simply don't see the value in Nomar a700, but I'm open to being convinced.

 

I posted WARP totals from the past few years, but didn't hear anything about how you think those translate into positive production for the team rather than 6 years of Bates.

[a700hitter]

As a piece of a larger deal I don't see why not... He wouldn't be the centerpiece of any big deal (except perhaps for a useless old player like Nomar) but he could be the 4th or 5th piece of a deal.

 

Look, nobody is saying he's a great player. I just think that all of the talent this team has should be used appropriately, and throwing away a decent young 1B with power for a CLEARLY DONE MLB player isn't the direction this team should go.

 

I simply don't see the value in Nomar a700, but I'm open to being convinced.

 

I posted WARP totals from the past few years, but didn't hear anything about how you think those translate into positive production for the team rather than 6 years of Bates.

6 Years of Bates? Your humor is sick and perverse. In 6 years, he'll be working for his second insurance company. Lol! If he is going to be the 4th or 5th piece in a big deal, he could essentially be replaced by a bag of balls.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I simply don't see the value in Nomar a700

 

He's not a prospect.

[a700hitter]

I posted WARP totals from the past few years' date=' but didn't hear anything about how you think those translate into positive production for the team rather than 6 years of Bates.[/quote']I wouldn't think that part time players would have much if any positive WARP #'s. He would be a bench player on the Red Sox for one season. He'd be part of an insurance policy against Lowell breaking down.

 

I'm still puzzled about the 6 years of Bates statement. I don't think he'll spend even one year with the Red Sox.

[a700hitter]

He's not a prospect.

Neither is Bates.

[Dojji]

yes he is. Maybe not a blue chipper, but he's a prospect.

[a700hitter]

yes he is. Maybe not a blue chipper' date=' but he's a prospect.[/quote']Not a blue chip prospect and barely a trading chip.

[example1]

6 Years of Bates? Your humor is sick and perverse. In 6 years' date=' he'll be working for his second insurance company. Lol! If he is going to be the 4th or 5th piece in a big deal, he could essentially be replaced by a bag of balls.[/quote']

 

I don't even understand how you would know a700. Had you even heard of him before he was called up? Suddenly it seems like you know everything about him.

 

He was a 3rd round pick and someone who hasn't failed to live up to 3rd round pickness (nothing too great, but not horrible either). You don't know whether teams would be interested or not, or even what his ceiling is. none of us really do, but to write him off as nothing but a bag of balls is absurd.

 

Yes, 6 years of Bates, as in 6 years of being a cost-controlled player who doesn't hurt this team at all by sitting in the minors waiting for a chance to come up in an emergency (say, when Lowell and Kotsay are injured). He gets to work out in the "sox way" and make improvements. If he starts to produce at a higher level then the Sox have him. If not then no harm done.

 

I think the larger point is that you picked Bates randomly out of a list of prospects that coudl be traded for Nomar and I'm just pushing back to say first, Nomar sucks and second, trade someone else if you're getting Nomar for some reason.

[example1]

Not a blue chip prospect and barely a trading chip.

 

On a team that prefers to use its homegrown players to spending millions on washed up free agents, the non-blue chip prospects are important. Being able to produce "MLB Average" or "replacement level" for minimal cost is actually a valuable thing.

[a700hitter]

I don't even understand how you would know a700. Had you even heard of him before he was called up? Suddenly it seems like you know everything about him.

 

He was a 3rd round pick and someone who hasn't failed to live up to 3rd round pickness (nothing too great, but not horrible either). You don't know whether teams would be interested or not, or even what his ceiling is. none of us really do, but to write him off as nothing but a bag of balls is absurd.

 

Yes, 6 years of Bates, as in 6 years of being a cost-controlled player who doesn't hurt this team at all by sitting in the minors waiting for a chance to come up in an emergency (say, when Lowell and Kotsay are injured). He gets to work out in the "sox way" and make improvements. If he starts to produce at a higher level then the Sox have him. If not then no harm done.

 

I think the larger point is that you picked Bates randomly out of a list of prospects that could be traded for Nomar and I'm just pushing back to say first, Nomar sucks and second, trade someone else if you're getting Nomar for some reason.

I do know that the way is being paved for Lars Anderson who plays the same position as Bates. I think you would agree with me on that. There's no room for him on this club, now or in the future, so he is nothing more than a trading chip IMO. What can you get for a AA who has stunk during a short stint at AAA? Probably not much. That's why I picked Bates. Maybe if he goes back to AAA and puts up some #'s he'll increase his value. If you could get Nomar for something less than Bates that would be fine. I was just using Bates as an example of a prospect that had no future with the Red Sox and will probably have very limited opportunities at the major league level. How do I know this? Well, I don't know for sure, but he is 25 years old, he has not done anything above AA yet, and there isn't much buzz about him other than what I have created on this forum. He should send me a Thank You note. It's my best guess that he is a nobody going nowhere, but you are free to disagree. I encourage you to take a flier on him during next years Fantasy Draft.

 

As for the "Bag of Balls" reference, I didn't call him a bag of balls until you said that he could be the 4th or 5th piece of a trade package. That denigrated him probably as much as anything I had said about him. When is the last time that a 4th or 5th trade piece has amounted to more than a bag of balls?

[Dojji]

The workd of prospects is not divided between "superstars" and "failures."

[CrespoBlows]

Nomar is a huge upgrade over Bailey and Bates. Offensively' date=' it is no-contest, and defensively he is much better than Bailey, who stinks. He is more versatile than Bates in that he can fill in at 3 IF positons. I would n't trade a top prospect to get him, but if they could get him for Bates they couldn't go wrong.[/quote']

 

Define huge? He has an OPS south of .700.

 

Go get Prince Fielder, but don't f*** with these retreads like Nomar.

[a700hitter]

Define huge? He has an OPS south of .700.

 

Go get Prince Fielder, but don't f*** with these retreads like Nomar.

He is a retread, which is why they could get him cheap and why he would be a bench player. Prince Fielder is no bench player and the prospect cost for him would be substantial. In my opinion OPS, nor any stat for that matter, for a bench player is definitive of their value to a team. Nomar has a career .885 OPS. You are assuming that his sub-.700 OPS in 33 games is reflective of his ability? He has much more ability than Bailey or Bates. His experience and versatility would also be pluses.

[CrespoBlows]

He is a retread' date=' which is why they could get him cheap and why he would be a bench player. Prince Fielder is no bench player and the prospect cost for him would be substantial. In my opinion OPS, nor any stat for that matter, for a bench player is definitive of their value to a team. Nomar has a career .885 OPS. You are assuming that his sub-.700 OPS in 33 games is reflective of his ability? He has much more ability than Bailey or Bates. His experience and versatility would also be pluses.[/quote']

 

It wouldn't matter to me if they traded Bates for Nomar, but I would hope the front office is looking for a bigger splash than that.

[a700hitter]

The workd of prospects is not divided between "superstars" and "failures."

I would lump them into 4 categories:

 

1. Future Major Leaguers being groomed for the parent club

 

2. Blue Chip- Trading Chips--Solid major league prospects but not for the parent club.

 

3. Marginal major league prospects-- Guys that could be packaged with one or more other prospects to get a real major leaguer.

 

4. Filler-- guys needed to fill out minor league rosters. They have no prospects of playing in the majors and by age 27 or 28 they will need to find a different line of business.

 

Bates is in one of the bottom 2 categories IMO.

[a700hitter]

It wouldn't matter to me if they traded Bates for Nomar' date=' but I would hope the front office is looking for a bigger splash than that.[/quote']It definitely should not be the only move they make. It would not be a move that would put them over the top. It would just strengthen the bench.

[yeszir]

He had the following to say when he was interviewed today:

 

"The minute I put that uniform on I dreamed I was gonna start my career in Boston and end my career in Boston. I still have that dream. The only difference from the original dream is that I wasn't supposed to put another uniform on. But that dream is still there."

 

The Red Sox could use some help at the corner infield positions. Does Nomar deserve any discussion?

 

Dutchy knew what was up