Sox/Bay talking extension

[TheKilo]

I hope they pay him and re-sign him too I'm just struggling where an initial offer of 2/20 for a similar player is "insulting"

[Dutchy]

I hope they pay him and re-sign him too I'm just struggling where an initial offer of 2/20 for a similar player is "insulting"

 

I don't think they're similar players because Dunn is so defensively challenged. In the AL, he's a DH. Is 2/20 insulting? Not really, but it's not going to lead to any kind of productive talks. Like I said, the Red Sox offered Adam Dunn money BEFORE the season and contract talks got nowhere.

[Dojji]

Want a chance to fix that typo before people call you on it?

[Dutchy]

Want a chance to fix that typo before people call you on it?

 

The Red Sox offered Jason Bay "Adam Dunn" money. I wasn't saying they offered Adam Dunn a contract.

[Dojji]

Right, but you can see what Im saying there. It would be reasonable to read what you wrote as if that's exactly what you were saying.

[example1]

Two questions:

 

What about this season makes people concerned that Bay is only putting up numbers "in a contract year"? (I don't even buy into this phenomenon, just curious)

 

I was going to ask this as well. Aside from PED usage, what makes people think that players can turn on and turn off the ability to get a .400 OBP or a .600 SLG? And if they could perform that well, why not do it all the time? I don't get the reasoning at all. A guy like Adrian Beltre could juice it up and get 15 more HRs, but I don't think he would suddenly choose to suck just because it isn't a contract year.

 

If the tendency is to play through injuries a bit more or something then I buy it, so in terms of playing time and the natural uptick that could cause in counting stats I get it, but overall quality and rate stats, not so much.

[Dutchy]

I was going to ask this as well. Aside from PED usage, what makes people think that players can turn on and turn off the ability to get a .400 OBP or a .600 SLG? And if they could perform that well, why not do it all the time? I don't get the reasoning at all. A guy like Adrian Beltre could juice it up and get 15 more HRs, but I don't think he would suddenly choose to suck just because it isn't a contract year.

 

If the tendency is to play through injuries a bit more or something then I buy it, so in terms of playing time and the natural uptick that could cause in counting stats I get it, but overall quality and rate stats, not so much.

 

I brought it up as a possibility just to play devil's advocate but Bay's been on fire every since he got to Boston, so I don't think he' playing for a contract. But there are players (Milton Bradley, Gary Matthews Jr.) who I do think played for a contract. Guys can do a lot of things to improve their performance aside from PEDs, from getting into good shape and staying in shape throughout the season, to watching more video, to spending more time in the batting cages, to not going out the night before day games. It could even be stuff as simple as not giving away at bats when the game's out of reach.

 

It's not like playing actively try to be bad once they get a big contract. But often they don't try as hard. Again, not saying I'm concerned about this with Bay.

[TheKilo]

I was going to ask this as well. Aside from PED usage, what makes people think that players can turn on and turn off the ability to get a .400 OBP or a .600 SLG? And if they could perform that well, why not do it all the time? I don't get the reasoning at all. A guy like Adrian Beltre could juice it up and get 15 more HRs, but I don't think he would suddenly choose to suck just because it isn't a contract year.

 

If the tendency is to play through injuries a bit more or something then I buy it, so in terms of playing time and the natural uptick that could cause in counting stats I get it, but overall quality and rate stats, not so much.

That and this season is not really out of the norm from some of his seasons in Pittsburgh - I guess he's getting more "clutch" hits but that is a random phenomenon and not something that can be measured or relied upon.

[TheKilo]

I brought it up as a possibility just to play devil's advocate but Bay's been on fire every since he got to Boston, so I don't think he' playing for a contract. But there are players (Milton Bradley, Gary Matthews Jr.) who I do think played for a contract. Guys can do a lot of things to improve their performance aside from PEDs, from getting into good shape and staying in shape throughout the season, to watching more video, to spending more time in the batting cages, to not going out the night before day games. It could even be stuff as simple as not giving away at bats when the game's out of reach.

 

It's not like playing actively try to be bad once they get a big contract. But often they don't try as hard. Again, not saying I'm concerned about this with Bay.

 

Fairly certain Matthews has been linked to PEDs.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2007-02-28-steroids-investigation_x.htm

 

Athletes were involved as customers of an illicit steroid distribution network that led authorities to raid two pharmacies in Orlando and arrest four company officials, a New York prosecutor said.

 

Albany County (N.Y.) District Attorney P. David Soares refused to identify any steroid recipients, saying prosecutors were focused on producers and distributors.

 

Customers allegedly include Los Angeles Angels outfielder Gary Matthews Jr., according to the Times Union of Albany, which first disclosed the investigation, citing unidentified sources.

[Dutchy]

Fairly certain Matthews has been linked to PEDs.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2007-02-28-steroids-investigation_x.htm

 

He was only one example. I could name many more (Bradley, Posada, Lowell, Drew in '04, Beltre in '04, etc.)

[TheKilo]

You think Lowell, Drew, and Posada were playing for contracts?

 

Beltre was linked to PEDs.

[Dutchy]

You think Lowell, Drew, and Posada were playing for contracts?

 

Beltre was linked to PEDs.

 

They all put up career years in contract years. Drew and Posada especially, they put up career highs in pretty much every offensive category.

 

Again, I'm not saying these guys only try when they're in contract years. I'm saying they try EXTRA HARD when they're in contract years to ensure they make as much money as possible.

 

And I could name plenty more players who weren't linked to PEDs. For some players playing for a contract may involve using PEDs, for others it may involve just working out really hard without PEDs.