The General Use Of Closers

[yankees228]

The Yankees lost the lead today, in large part, because of how often closers are misused. The Twins had Mauer, Morneau, and Kubel coming up in the 8th inning. The game, in all likelihood, is going to be won or lost in this inning. Rivera should have been used to get these three outs, and then someone like Brett Tomko should be able to navigate through the bottom of the order.

 

I understand that Bill James came up with the "Relief Ace" (IIRC), and it's so logical.

 

I was curious as to what other people's opinions are about this.

[BoSox21]

To me, it all depends on the quality of your closer and the depth of your bullpen. If you have a clear cut guy who is the "ace" of your bullpen, I think definitely he should be used in say the 7th or 8th inning if the heart of the order is up. But you need a reliable guy to get what are the most important outs of the game in the 9th, not some schmuck who cracks under the crowd noise in the 9th.

[Dojji]

The Yankees lost the lead today, in large part, because of how often closers are misused. The Twins had Mauer, Morneau, and Kubel coming up in the 8th inning. The game, in all likelihood, is going to be won or lost in this inning. Rivera should have been used to get these three outs, and then someone like Brett Tomko should be able to navigate through the bottom of the order.

 

I understand that Bill James came up with the "Relief Ace" (IIRC), and it's so logical.

 

I was curious as to what other people's opinions are about this.

 

The real answer is to have more than one reliable reliever in your bullpen. If you only have one guy you can count on to hold a narrow lead, then it doesn't matter if the rest of the pen blows it in the 6th or the 9th.

[ORS]

You are missing the point. While it is ideal to have multiple options, the question is how do you use your best option.

 

I think the proposed idea is the best answer. In a tight game, I want my best BP pitcher facing their best chance to tie the game. Having a chucker face a 3/4/5 combo in the 8th hoping he can hold the lead for the closer is stupid. It's conventional, but stupid. When one of them sends a ball into the seats, my reaction is, "Well, no s***!" If the same said chucker is facing 6/7/8 and the same result happens, I don't have the same reaction, in fact it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for my reaction to be, "I can't believe [insert scrub here] ran into one!"

[Dojji]

If you don't have more than one good option all you're doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic anyway. And there'll be games you can't even use the one guy.

 

If you have a bad bullpen no amount of role-shifting is going to turn it into a good one.

 

Also, taking a dominant closer and messing with his role can fall under the heading of "fixing what works."

[yankees228]

If you don't have more than one good option all you're doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic anyway. And there'll be games you can't even use the one guy.

 

If you have a bad bullpen no amount of role-shifting is going to turn it into a good one.

 

Also, taking a dominant closer and messing with his role can fall under the heading of "fixing what works."

 

It's not just using your guys in a different order. That's not the point at all. Parts of lineup, obviously, are stronger than others. Your best relief pitcher would have the best chance to get out the best part of the opposing teams lineup. One of your other relief pitchers has a better chance to get through a weaker part of the lineup.

[ORS]

If you don't have more than one good option all you're doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic anyway. And there'll be games you can't even use the one guy.

 

If you have a bad bullpen no amount of role-shifting is going to turn it into a good one.

 

Also, taking a dominant closer and messing with his role can fall under the heading of "fixing what works."

You woefully still don't get it, and to be honest, your "one guy = failure anyway" point actually makes the relief-ace case stronger. If there's only one good option, I absolutely want him facing their best chance to score late in a game. If there is more than one, then there is something to consider.

 

I can see you've just about dislocated your shoulder patting yourself on the back for pointing out what you believe to be the true answer to this question, having a deep bullpen. However, the question isn't bullpen composition, but usage.

[Dipre]

You woefully still don't get it, and to be honest, your "one guy = failure anyway" point actually makes the relief-ace case stronger. If there's only one good option, I absolutely want him facing their best chance to score late in a game. If there is more than one, then there is something to consider.

 

I can see you've just about dislocated your shoulder patting yourself on the back for pointing out what you believe to be the true answer to this question, having a deep bullpen. However, the question isn't bullpen composition, but usage.

 

lolololololololol.

[TheKilo]

lolimgran