Boston Bruins Playoff Game Thread

[TheKilo]

This series encapsulates why paying Tim Thomas #1 money for the next four years will be a mistake that can cripple this franchise - especially if they do not sign Kessel/Krejci in this offseason.

 

He is not a #1 goaltender. He is not good enough to win a playoff series on his own. Look across the rink and you see a goaltender who has already won a Conn Smythe and looks to be primed to make another run for his team.

 

I didn't see the last goal, but the 3rd was a combination of a pretty bad defensive breakdown and a softie let in by Thomas. The 2nd was a terrible rebound put forth by Thomas. the 4th was a complete softie.

 

How anyone can have confidence in him carrying the Bruins to three straight and salvaging this series is beyond me.

 

How anyone can think giving Thomas that kind of coin for four f***ing years is beyond me.

[YanksHater213]

This team has been resilient all year long. I haven't given up, but lets show these f***s whose boss in game 5.

[SCM33]

This series encapsulates why paying Tim Thomas #1 money for the next four years will be a mistake that can cripple this franchise - especially if they do not sign Kessel/Krejci in this offseason.

 

He is not a #1 goaltender. He is not good enough to win a playoff series on his own. Look across the rink and you see a goaltender who has already won a Conn Smythe and looks to be primed to make another run for his team.

 

I didn't see the last goal, but the 3rd was a combination of a pretty bad defensive breakdown and a softie let in by Thomas. The 2nd was a terrible rebound put forth by Thomas. the 4th was a complete softie.

 

How anyone can have confidence in him carrying the Bruins to three straight and salvaging this series is beyond me.

 

How anyone can think giving Thomas that kind of coin for four f***ing years is beyond me.

 

Especially with Tuuka Rask waiting in the wings after his dominate season in the IHL, he has nothing left to prove there.

[Cityofchampions33]

I've been torturing myself watching stanley cup celebrations all night. f*** I want that cup, and if not for the worst officiating i've seen in awhile we may have been a game closer than where we stand right now. hats off to the RBC Center crowd though, jeez they can make noise

[Dojji]

Especially with Tuuka Rask waiting in the wings after his dominate season in the IHL' date=' he has nothing left to prove there.[/quote']

 

That worked so well for Montreal after all. Or for us, for that matter, when we tried it with Toivonen. Or with Raycroft for that matter. Yeah, turning it over to the kid with nothing but free agents as a Plan B is a sure winner. Guaranteed. Perfect plan. Absolutely.

 

Fact 1: Tuuka Rask will be a great goaltender.

 

Fact 2: There is a difference between "will be" and "is."

 

Fact 3: Thomas IS an above average goaltender.

 

Fact 4: There is a potential for Rask to go the way of Toivonen and Raycroft, or even just to Carey Price for a couple years before he settles down. The history of Boston's efforts to draft and develop a goaltender has been very unglamorous. Has Boston ever developed a goaltender of their very own? Even Moog and Lemlein came here from somewhere else.

 

Fact 5: Until Rask IS a great goaltender we need options between the pipes.

 

Tim Thomas, signed to a market average deal for a goaltender with above average production, isa fine member of this team and no one should be having a problem with Timmy's place on this team. Especially because he had no small role in us getting to the second rou8nd in the first place.

 

Look, our failure against Carolina is about two things. First, Carolina is winning the key matchups, especially Staal is making Chara look bad. Secondly, they're turning it over consistently in the neutral and defensive zones. No one wins a hockey game doing that. If Thomas has a fvailure in this series it's the failure to cover for the mistakes of an entire team that is playing like a steaming pile of doggy doo right now.

[Dojji]

He is not good enough to win a playoff series on his own.

 

This isn't the NBA. Even guys like Brodeur get picked up by their D a lot and when the D turns it over in their own zone as much as the Bruins have been even the big guys don't win very often

[TheKilo]

This isn't the NBA. Even guys like Brodeur get picked up by their D a lot and when the D turns it over in their own zone as much as the Bruins have been even the big guys don't win very often

 

Cam Ward stood on his f***ing head in Game 2 and stole that game for Carolina - when was the last time you could say the same about TT? Ever?

[TheKilo]

That worked so well for Montreal after all. Or for us' date=' for that matter, when we tried it with Toivonen. Or with Raycroft for that matter. Yeah, turning it over to the kid with nothing but free agents as a Plan B is a sure winner. Guaranteed. Perfect plan. Absolutely.[/quote']

 

Logical fallacy - you can't assume the same thing will happen to Rask.

 

By all accounts, Rask is going to be a TREMENDOUS goaltender and I would have loved to sign a guy like Ty Conklin to serve as the backup while Rask takes over.

 

I'll say this until I am blue in the face - Thomas got a deal that is about right in terms of dollars - it should not have been the Bruins who ponied up that money.

 

Fact 1: Tuuka Rask will be a great goaltender.

 

Fact 2: There is a difference between "will be" and "is."

 

Fact 3: Thomas IS an above average goaltender.

 

Fact 4: There is a potential for Rask to go the way of Toivonen and Raycroft, or even just to Carey Price for a couple years before he settles down. The history of Boston's efforts to draft and develop a goaltender has been very unglamorous. Has Boston ever developed a goaltender of their very own? Even Moog and Lemlein came here from somewhere else.

 

Fact 5: Until Rask IS a great goaltender we need options between the pipes.

 

Fact 1 v. 3 - I love how we downgrade "great" to "above average"

 

Fact 4 - Logical fallacy

 

Fact 5 - Rask could be ready next season and signing a vet on the cheap would not have been difficult.

 

Tim Thomas, signed to a market average deal for a goaltender with above average production, isa fine member of this team and no one should be having a problem with Timmy's place on this team. Especially because he had no small role in us getting to the second rou8nd in the first place.

 

When Kessel bolts this offseason the majority of Bruins fans won't think this way.

 

Look, our failure against Carolina is about two things. First, Carolina is winning the key matchups, especially Staal is making Chara look bad. Secondly, they're turning it over consistently in the neutral and defensive zones. No one wins a hockey game doing that. If Thomas has a fvailure in this series it's the failure to cover for the mistakes of an entire team that is playing like a steaming pile of doggy doo right now.

 

Why does Timmy never get ANY blame?

 

The 2nd and 4th goals were atrocious last night.

 

Let me ask you a question - do you think the Bruins can win this series if Thomas continues to play the way he has?

[YanksHater213]

I've been a Tuukka fan for a while, I love how composed he is in the crease, and how he values his position over flopping around like Timmy does (not trying to knock in Timmy).

 

I think TT is a very good goaltender, but obviously not the goalie of the future. I think his deal was good in the interm but too much for the long term, because as I said, Tuukka is the goalie of the future. Honestly though, I'd rather have a guy getting paid too much to stay as a 50/50 goalie in order to have a good backup.

 

I'd rather overpay to have 2 very good goaltenders than have a Tuukka Rask and a John Grahame (lol) type goalie duo.

[Dojji]

Cam Ward stood on his f***ing head in Game 2 and stole that game for Carolina - when was the last time you could say the same about TT? Ever?

 

At least two different games against the Rangers and once against the Habs this year. The fact is that TT shouldn't have to stand on his head. We're the better team here and Thomas is WAAAAAAY down on the list of people who have/are about to cost us this series.

[BoSox21]

If Ward is gonna stand on his head, the only chance Boston has is for Thomas to do the same...

[Dojji]

Logical fallacy - you can't assume the same thing will happen to Rask.

 

You also can't assume you won't. That's why a smart GM prepares for either contingency. If Rask takes over Thomas's deal is not so large he cannot be traded. If Rask does not take over we have an above average option who can take over immediately -- as he's done each of the last 4 years when the nominal Plan A fell through. Either way, it's smarter to keep Thomas than it is to expose Rask. Even if Rask blew everyone away it still would be smarter to have Timmeh around.

By all accounts, Rask is going to be a TREMENDOUS goaltender and I would have loved to sign a guy like Ty Conklin to serve as the backup while Rask takes over.

 

Rask is going to be a trenendous goaltender... by all accounts.... sure, I'll buy that in the same way I bought Toivonen and Raycroft. Both of them had a similar buzz, and both of them fell flat on their faces when given the NHL starter's job in exactly the same way you want to give it to Rask. Heck, Toivonen and Rask were even very successful in much more NHL action than Rask has had so far when they were GIVEN that job.

 

So yeah, I'll buy that in exactly that same way, meaning I'll keep my receipt and my return ticket handy and a backup plan available on immediate notice, and see if the kid can take over on merit. That way if Rask does succeed in winning the starter's job, it's because he's playing better than an above average tender. Not just because there was no one else like the other 2 times (in the last 6 years!) we tried to move a goalie of future dominant superstar awesomeness in the regular lineup.

 

You say he's not going to fail. I say we're talking about a rookie here, even if he dominates eventually he might not do so in his first season. If he doesn't I'd rather have Timmy Thomas between the pipes for half my games or more than Ty Conklin -- and so would you.

I'll say this until I am blue in the face - Thomas got a deal that is about right in terms of dollars - it should not have been the Bruins who ponied up that money.

 

Why am I reminded of the Mark Teixeira discussion? You know, when you to shell out for an expensive prime veteran and I wanted to roll the dice on a dominant rookie of the future?

 

 

 

Fact 1 v. 3 - I love how we downgrade "great" to "above average"

 

I think Thomas is a great goaltender but I'm dealing in facts. The fact is that TT is above average right now. Whatever else he may be, the fact that he is better than the majority of starting goaltenders is statistically indispuable. A below average goaltender does not get nominated for the Vezina or stand among the league leaders in key goaltending categories like SV%

 

Also, a guy who is above average is not necessarily a downgrade right now vs. a guy who is going to be great. Even accepting the premise of eventual guaranteed dominance, we're still talking about a rookie with some learning and growing to do. Just ask Carey Price.

Fact 4 - Logical fallacy

 

No, it isn't, because I'm not saying Rask WILL follow in the footsteps of Toivolen and Raycroft. I'm simply saying it's sufficiently possible that I'm not prepared to gamble the whole team's future on it with a reasonable alternative handy.

Fact 5 - Rask could be ready next season and signing a vet on the cheap would not have been difficult.

 

it also could have been disastrous. Look at the Habs to see why. You know as well as I do that what people were saying about Price is about what they're saying now about Rask. Do not assume that all the ability he'll have at his peak is there now. It is not.

 

 

When Kessel bolts this offseason the majority of Bruins fans won't think this way.

 

When he stays will you shut up about Thomas? With the bonus cushion going away Boston has room to spare to promote Rask and sign K&K. Worst case scenario is that Kobasew and/or Sturm move on at draft day.

 

 

Why does Timmy never get ANY blame?

 

The 2nd and 4th goals were atrocious last night.

 

And if Magical Super-Goalie X makes those two saves we still lose 2-1. Thomas didn't excel, but he's hardly to blame here. You can't win if you don't score goals and you can't win if you can't get out of your own way. All those turnovers in the neutral and defensive zone are a far bigger problem than an above average goaltender.

 

Let me ask you a question - do you think the Bruins can win this series if Thomas continues to play the way he has?

 

Yes. Especially if the defense wakes up and does its job. Especially Ferrence and Chara who have both been ridiculously bad.

 

This season is in the hands of our offense and specifically in the hands of Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Kessel, Chara, Wideman and Ryder to step their games up, clear their heads, and play some quality hockey.

[Looch Ness Monster]

I really just don't think Timmy is the kind of goalie that can stand on his head for a game. His unorthodox style leaves a lot of big rebounds in the slot or out near the blue line. He's bound to let in at least one soft goal. But I do think he always gives the Bruins a chance to win. He'll let in that one soft goal and THEN stand on his head for the rest of the game.

 

I don't think Timmy needs to stand on his head for the Bruins to win. I think Julien needs to move Lucic back with Ryder and Krejci (worked great against Montreal) to create space for Krejci and Ryder. He needs to put Axelsson back with Savard and Kessel. And he needs to sit Blake Wheeler for game 5. I didn't understand putting Thornton in the press box in favor of the rookie Wheeler. Thornton, Bitz and Yelle were one of our best lines throughout the year when they were together.

 

Amazing stat: When Krejci scores a point the Bruins are 42-2-5 (including playoffs)

[TheKilo]

I really just don't think Timmy is the kind of goalie that can stand on his head for a game. His unorthodox style leaves a lot of big rebounds in the slot or out near the blue line. He's bound to let in at least one soft goal. But I do think he always gives the Bruins a chance to win. He'll let in that one soft goal and THEN stand on his head for the rest of the game.

 

I don't think Timmy needs to stand on his head for the Bruins to win. I think Julien needs to move Lucic back with Ryder and Krejci (worked great against Montreal) to create space for Krejci and Ryder. He needs to put Axelsson back with Savard and Kessel. And he needs to sit Blake Wheeler for game 5. I didn't understand putting Thornton in the press box in favor of the rookie Wheeler. Thornton, Bitz and Yelle were one of our best lines throughout the year when they were together.

 

Amazing stat: When Krejci scores a point the Bruins are 42-2-5 (including playoffs)

 

Awesome handle, it'd be nice if Lucic showed up for this series, starting tonight.

[TheKilo]

You also can't assume you won't. That's why a smart GM prepares for either contingency. If Rask takes over Thomas's deal is not so large he cannot be traded. If Rask does not take over we have an above average option who can take over immediately -- as he's done each of the last 4 years when the nominal Plan A fell through. Either way' date=' it's smarter to keep Thomas than it is to expose Rask. Even if Rask blew everyone away it still would be smarter to have Timmeh around.[/quote']

 

It's smarter to have Thomas at the expense of Kessel? Don't buy it.

 

 

Rask is going to be a trenendous goaltender... by all accounts.... sure, I'll buy that in the same way I bought Toivonen and Raycroft. Both of them had a similar buzz, and both of them fell flat on their faces when given the NHL starter's job in exactly the same way you want to give it to Rask. Heck, Toivonen and Rask were even very successful in much more NHL action than Rask has had so far when they were GIVEN that job.

 

You know as well as I do that Raycroft played way over his head that season in Boston and once he was figured out by the league, it was game over.

 

I guess it boils down to whether or not you want Kessel, Rask, and Goalie X over Thomas, Rask, and skater Y.

 

I have a tough time thinking the latter is a better option - especially since Timmy is an older goaltender and his style isn't conducive to aging.

 

So yeah, I'll buy that in exactly that same way, meaning I'll keep my receipt and my return ticket handy and a backup plan available on immediate notice, and see if the kid can take over on merit. That way if Rask does succeed in winning the starter's job, it's because he's playing better than an above average tender. Not just because there was no one else like the other 2 times (in the last 6 years!) we tried to move a goalie of future dominant superstar awesomeness in the regular lineup.

 

So what you're saying is, you think if Rask outplays Thomas, he'll win the starting job?

 

In what universe does any hockey team pay a goaltender $5 million to sit on the bench?

 

You say he's not going to fail. I say we're talking about a rookie here, even if he dominates eventually he might not do so in his first season. If he doesn't I'd rather have Timmy Thomas between the pipes for half my games or more than Ty Conklin -- and so would you.

 

Oh absolutely - not at $5 million over the next four years.

 

Thomas has earned that contract - it should NOT have been the Bruins who paid it.

 

 

Why am I reminded of the Mark Teixeira discussion? You know, when you to shell out for an expensive prime veteran and I wanted to roll the dice on a dominant rookie of the future?

 

Salary cap?

 

 

 

I think Thomas is a great goaltender but I'm dealing in facts. The fact is that TT is above average right now. Whatever else he may be, the fact that he is better than the majority of starting goaltenders is statistically indispuable. A below average goaltender does not get nominated for the Vezina or stand among the league leaders in key goaltending categories like SV%

 

He's had a fantastic season and will probably win the Vezina - he's had a pretty weak series though. Ward has been ridiculous so maybe it's an unfair comparison - but it's clear who has the edge in goaltending this series.

 

Also, a guy who is above average is not necessarily a downgrade right now vs. a guy who is going to be great. Even accepting the premise of eventual guaranteed dominance, we're still talking about a rookie with some learning and growing to do. Just ask Carey Price.

 

I've never believed the Price hype.

 

I'll say it again - if Thomas could have been had for a reasonable price, I would be on board with the Thomas/Rask platoon.

 

I just don't see how they make it work over the next four years - it's quite possible they will stunt Rask's development.

 

 

No, it isn't, because I'm not saying Rask WILL follow in the footsteps of Toivolen and Raycroft. I'm simply saying it's sufficiently possible that I'm not prepared to gamble the whole team's future on it with a reasonable alternative handy.

 

Can't argue - I don't find Thomas at $5 million to be a reasonable alternative.

 

 

it also could have been disastrous. Look at the Habs to see why. You know as well as I do that what people were saying about Price is about what they're saying now about Rask. Do not assume that all the ability he'll have at his peak is there now. It is not.

 

I could be way off base but I think Rask is thought of at a higher standard than Price was.

 

 

 

When he stays will you shut up about Thomas? With the bonus cushion going away Boston has room to spare to promote Rask and sign K&K. Worst case scenario is that Kobasew and/or Sturm move on at draft day.

 

Who's going to take Kobasew or Sturm? Stone hands and a speed guy coming off kneww surgery?

 

 

And if Magical Super-Goalie X makes those two saves we still lose 2-1. Thomas didn't excel, but he's hardly to blame here. You can't win if you don't score goals and you can't win if you can't get out of your own way. All those turnovers in the neutral and defensive zone are a far bigger problem than an above average goaltender.

 

I agree - but there's gotta be times where Thomas comes through and doesn't allow these crippling goals when the team is tied or they are nursing a one goal lead.

 

Like Schilling used to say - "If we only score one, I have to hold them to zero" - Timmy's gotta pitch a shutout every once in a while.

 

 

 

Yes. Especially if the defense wakes up and does its job. Especially Ferrence and Chara who have both been ridiculously bad.

 

This season is in the hands of our offense and specifically in the hands of Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Kessel, Chara, Wideman and Ryder to step their games up, clear their heads, and play some quality hockey.

 

I agree. Let's hope they figure it out tonight.

[Looch Ness Monster]

How is Kobasew "stone hands"? He just came off a season in which he scored 20+ goals.. Plenty of teams would love a player like Kobasew who can score goals and stick his nose into the spots on the ice a lot of players would be afraid to. Especially when the only expense would be a few middle draft picks.

 

Kessel and Krejci will both be back in Boston..and I can't believe that Thomas STILL has doubters.

[TheKilo]

How many of Kobasew's goals were of the empty net variety?

[TheKilo]

Energy much better tonight

[TheKilo]

RECCHI!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheKilo]

NICE Timmy

[TheKilo]

KESSELLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Looch Ness Monster]

The Looch Ness Monster has made his presence felt tonight. As well as Chara, Recchi, Krejci, Kessel, Thomas and the rest of the gang. So awesome.

[Dojji]

It's smarter to have Thomas at the expense of Kessel? Don't buy it.

 

Logical fallacy: False dichotomy. There is NO guarantee that retaining Thomas costs us Kessel.

 

 

 

You know as well as I do that Raycroft played way over his head that season in Boston and once he was figured out by the league, it was game over.

 

As analyzed by benefit of hindsight? Sure. My point is that at the time we thought much the same about Toivonen and Raycroft as we thought now. The fact that the league exposed them doesn't mean that Rask will get exposed, but it certainly does mean that one shouldn't be so sure about sure-thing prospects. You can't put a goaltender on the 4th line while he gets his head on straight.

 

There is a sentiment about Rask that it's possible to get into his head. There have been periods of time when Rask seemed either too emotional or else bored and distracted in the AHL. That definitely worries me. Until that one is resolved one way or the other I propose to put the Bruins in a position where Rask is a luxury rather than a necessity.

I guess it boils down to whether or not you want Kessel, Rask, and Goalie X over Thomas, Rask, and skater Y.

 

I have a tough time thinking the latter is a better option - especially since Timmy is an older goaltender and his style isn't conducive to aging.

 

Again with the false dichotomy re: Kessel. Chiarelli wouldn't have signed Thomas if he thought he was in any danger of losing his top scorer. Bergeron's place on the roster is in FAR more jeapordy than Kessel's.

 

Be that as it may, if you make me choose between Kessel and Thomas, you're basically asking me whether my version of these Bruins would be a defensive club or an offensive one.

 

My answer is that Thomas is, right now, far more important to our defense than Kessel is to our offense. Not that losing Kessel wouldn't hurt -- a lot -- but we can build better offense without Kessel than we can build a defense with a rookie and a scrub in the net.

 

Also a big part of the strength of this team last year was two all-star caliber goaltenders. I have no problem with repeating that phenomenon with Thomas as Jedi master and Rask as young Padawan absorbing his passion and work ethic.

 

So what you're saying is, you think if Rask outplays Thomas, he'll win the starting job?

 

In what universe does any hockey team pay a goaltender $5 million to sit on the bench?

 

This hockey team just got done paying a goaltender $4M to sit on the bench.

 

If it becomes obvious that Thomas would get more playing time elsewhere believe me when I say that Chiarelli would find a buyer for Thomas.

He's had a fantastic season and will probably win the Vezina - he's had a pretty weak series though. Ward has been ridiculous so maybe it's an unfair comparison - but it's clear who has the edge in goaltending this series.

 

This series is not over.

 

 

I've never believed the Price hype.

 

I'll say it again - if Thomas could have been had for a reasonable price, I would be on board with the Thomas/Rask platoon.

 

I just don't see how they make it work over the next four years - it's quite possible they will stunt Rask's development.

 

 

 

 

Can't argue - I don't find Thomas at $5 million to be a reasonable alternative.

 

 

 

This is all basically the same thought.

 

I don't think the cap is as big a problem as people make it out to be. With the bonus cushion coming down we pick up some cap space that we aren't accounting for.

 

I could be way off base but I think Rask is thought of at a higher standard than Price was.

 

I'm not sure that's possible.

 

Look, I'm not denying that Rask is a great prospect, but he's still a prospect. Meaning he hasn't panned out yet. Planning on him as if he had seems foolish to me. That's my point here.

 

If he'd played a significant number of consecutive NHL games at any point I might agree with you, but with such limited NHL exposure it seems too big a risk to take.

 

 

 

 

Who's going to take Kobasew or Sturm? Stone hands and a speed guy coming off knee surgery?

 

Yeah, guys with 20 goal scoring ability and Kobasew's physicality and Sturm's speed are a dime a dozen, right? There's a whole lot of second lines begging for a guy like Kobasew or Sturm. Heck, Montreal would kill to add a Kobasew to their roster.

 

As for Sturm, we should certainly wait and see how he comes back to proclaim him toast. Nothing I've heard suggests that he won't come back just as good as before.

 

These guys aren't only players another team would take, we could probably get a decent return for either of them.

 

I agree - but there's gotta be times where Thomas comes through and doesn't allow these crippling goals when the team is tied or they are nursing a one goal lead.

 

Like Schilling used to say - "If we only score one, I have to hold them to zero" - Timmy's gotta pitch a shutout every once in a while.

 

Sure, agreed. But there were too many quality chances for me to think that Thomas was going to shut anyone out last game. When the defense gives the puck away multiple times 15 feet or less from the crease no one pitches a shutout. I'm not saying Thomas doesn't share some responsibility for the outcome of the series so far but right now he's back on the list behind at least 6 other players including Chara.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Let's hope they figure it out tonight.

 

So far so good/

[Dojji]

Heck of a job there by Bergeron.

[Dojji]

NOT CHARA!!! NOOOOO!!!!

[Dojji]

nd 2.

 

Tell me Chara's OK... Please tell me Chara's OK...

[TheKilo]

Yeah if Chara is out, even though he's played terrible, they don't have a shot.

[Dojji]

Yeesh, I think the next callup is Boychuk unless Hunwick rushes back.

 

Please be OK, Z.

[Dojji]

Chara not on the bench for 3rd.

 

EDIT: here he comes.

 

EDIT2: He's fine.

[TheKilo]

He's back

 

Hope Thornton annihilates Jokinen