Scranton Wilkes Barre Yankees

[Dipre]

No' date=' it has more to do with stretching his arm out, and yes, that is more important. I would rather Hughes be able to throw 180-200IP next yr when he slots in for Pettitte. In order to do that, Hughes needs 150IP this season. If 120IP of that comes in the rotation and the last 30IP comes from the pen, then I am totally cool with that. But for right now, he needs to be in the rotation somewhere.[/quote']

 

You do know that by him working from the bullpen he will also get his fair share of blowout work and spot-starts?

[jacksonianmarch]

Not right now. Think about our rotation as it is constituted. Lets assume we get Wang back and he is the CMW we all know and love. Then we'll have 4, that is 4, pitchers who will average 6.3 or more IP per start with CC over 7IP per start and then Joba. If someone gets hurt, then Hughes would have started anyway and we'd have to re-stretch him out. I do not agree with using Hughes in a short role right now. At the end of the yr when he's coming up on his IP count, then absolutely. Same deal with Joba. Hell, if the yankees decided to piggyback those two for the end of August and September, I am game. I just think that a healthy CMW gives us more right now than Hughes does. And I also do not want Hughes shortened to where he doesnt reach the 150IP mark. So, in a perfect world, IMO, Wang comes back strong, Hughes goes to AAA and by the end of the yr, Joba or Hughes are working out of the pen after they reach their innings caps and our top 4 for the playoffs are CC, Burnett, Wang, and Pettitte.

[Dipre]

Not right now. Think about our rotation as it is constituted. Lets assume we get Wang back and he is the CMW we all know and love. Then we'll have 4' date=' that is 4, pitchers who will average 6.3 or more IP per start with CC over 7IP per start and then Joba. If someone gets hurt, then Hughes would have started anyway and we'd have to re-stretch him out. I do not agree with using Hughes in a short role right now. At the end of the yr when he's coming up on his IP count, then absolutely. Same deal with Joba. Hell, if the yankees decided to piggyback those two for the end of August and September, I am game. I just think that a healthy CMW gives us more right now than Hughes does. And I also do not want Hughes shortened to where he doesnt reach the 150IP mark. So, in a perfect world, IMO, Wang comes back strong, Hughes goes to AAA and by the end of the yr, Joba or Hughes are working out of the pen after they reach their innings caps and our top 4 for the playoffs are CC, Burnett, Wang, and Pettitte.[/quote']

 

Yeah i forgot you don't live in reality but in "Jackoland".

 

Carry on.

[jacksonianmarch]

what land is that? The land where reality reigns supreme? At least in this thread anyway. If we were to use Hughes in the pen, then I would assume it would be similar to Joba. More than one inning at a time with more than one day inbetween appearances. That works well if our rotation wasnt giving any depth and if we didnt have anyone else who fits that role. See, this yr, as opposed to every yr since 2003, our rotation is giving depth and has guys in it who typically give depth. Also, we have a guy who is doing the Mendoza thing in Aceves and he's doing it pretty well. I would assume that Hughes wont get a lot of consistent work if he converted now and his IP total would be down.

[Dipre]

what land is that? The land where reality reigns supreme? At least in this thread anyway. If we were to use Hughes in the pen' date=' then I would assume it would be similar to Joba. More than one inning at a time with more than one day inbetween appearances. That works well if our rotation wasnt giving any depth and if we didnt have anyone else who fits that role. See, this yr, as opposed to every yr since 2003, our rotation is giving depth and has guys in it who typically give depth. Also, we have a guy who is doing the Mendoza thing in Aceves and he's doing it pretty well. I would assume that Hughes wont get a lot of consistent work if he converted now and his IP total would be down.[/quote']

 

No.

 

The land where you think the undervalue the suckitude of the Yankee bullpen and overvalue the starting rotation.

 

But that is your MO after all.

[jacksonianmarch]

how am I overvaluing the rotation? Right now, CC is averaging 7.1IP per start, Burnett 6.5IP per start, and Pettitte 6.3IP per start. I didnt say anything about their effectiveness, although they have been pretty good to this point. I only remarked on their endurance. And as we all know, a solid CMW is good for about 6.5IP per start. I know our pen sucks, but Hughes isnt a short reliever and shouldnt be used as one. And with the way the rotation has been pitching, Hughes would only be used for one inning at a time, which isnt what is best for his growth.

[Dipre]

how am I overvaluing the rotation? Right now' date=' CC is averaging 7.1IP per start, Burnett 6.5IP per start, and Pettitte 6.3IP per start. I didnt say anything about their effectiveness, although they have been pretty good to this point. I only remarked on their endurance. And as we all know, a solid CMW is good for about 6.5IP per start. I know our pen sucks, but Hughes isnt a short reliever and shouldnt be used as one. And with the way the rotation has been pitching, Hughes would only be used for one inning at a time, which isnt what is best for his growth.[/quote']

 

"A team is never as good as it looks when it's winning and never as bad as it looks when it's losing."

[jacksonianmarch]

"A team is never as good as it looks when it's winning and never as bad as it looks when it's losing."

 

that quote is not being used appropriately in this scenario, though. CC, Pettitte, and Burnett have historically given innings, especially since AJ went to Toronto. And we know CMW gives innings as well. This isnt a flash in the pan kind of thing, these guys give depth. Its what they do.

[Dipre]

that quote is not being used appropriately in this scenario' date=' though. CC, Pettitte, and Burnett have historically given innings, especially since AJ went to Toronto. [b']And we know CMW gives innings as well.[/b] This isnt a flash in the pan kind of thing, these guys give depth. Its what they do.

 

Thank you.

 

Case closed.

[jacksonianmarch]

you cannot claim victory when I have run roughshod over you for the past day or so.

[yankees228]

"A team is never as good as it looks when it's winning and never as bad as it looks when it's losing."

 

He is using facts, and using those pitcher's track records as the basis for his argument. Like Jackson said, he is not commenting on their effectiveness. I don't see why you think he's overvaluing the rotation.

 

As for the comment about CMW, I'm sure Jackson would acknowledge that he is a question mark right now. He prefaced his argument by saying IF CMW does this and that...

 

And as for the quote you used, I understand it's meaning, but at what point are teams just good and at what point are teams just bad? I'm not saying the Yankees fall into either one of those categories, but that can't always be the excuse or reason.

[Dipre]

you cannot claim victory when I have run roughshod over you for the past day or so.

 

You using CMW as the basis of an argument is a victory for me in its own right.

[jacksonianmarch]

take a look at y228's post and you might want to brush up on your english before you claim victory. Reading the posts you are trashing might be a good idea before you stick your foot in your mouth.

[Dipre]

take a look at y228's post and you might want to brush up on your english before you claim victory. Reading the posts you are trashing might be a good idea before you stick your foot in your mouth.

 

Not really.

 

I'd be sticking a foot up my mouth if CMW had shown ANYTHING this season.....

 

Which he hasn't.

 

Besides.

 

Again.

 

That bullpen sucks, and eventually, he'll get enough spot starts, either to get someone rest, because of injury, or because someone gets shelled early to reach the 150 inning plateau.

 

What i need to brush on is on how NOT to be a ballwashing fan like you.

 

As for Y228, his post makes no sense as to the topic at hand.

 

He's not a ballwasher like you, but he's taking things out of context.

[yankees228]

All I'm saying is that Jackson's points about the rotation are all fact driven.

[Dipre]

All I'm saying is that Jackson's points about the rotation are all fact driven.

 

Ok, so you think no pitcher in the Yankee rotation will get injured or will get shelled early game for the remainder of the season?

 

Because the point of the conversation which you came to abruptly interrupt while obviously not reading the start of the debate was wether or not Hughes would be able to pitch 150 innings from the bullpen and spot-starting.

 

But i forgot the Yankee rotation is perfect, so none of their starters will get injured, need a day off, or get their ass kicked for the remainder of the season.

[yankees228]

Ok, so you think no pitcher in the Yankee rotation will get injured or will get shelled early game for the remainder of the season?

 

Because the point of the conversation which you came to abruptly interrupt while obviously not reading the start of the debate was wether or not Hughes would be able to pitch 150 innings from the bullpen and spot-starting.

 

But i forgot the Yankee rotation is perfect, so none of their starters will get injured, need a day off, or get their ass kicked for the remainder of the season.

 

If one of their starters gets injured, Hughes can be called back up. He is still developing his change up and cut fastball, and I would like to see him work on those pitches where his lack of success cannot hurt the Yankees and where he'll be able to pitch every fifth day.

[Dipre]

If one of their starters gets injured' date=' Hughes can be called back up. He is still developing his change up and cut fastball, and I would like to see him work on those pitches where his lack of success cannot hurt the Yankees and where he'll be able to pitch every fifth day.[/quote']

 

That is not the question.

 

The question is, is it possible for Phil Hughes to pitch 150 innings this year even with the almghty awesomeness of the Yankee rotation that Jacko explains with all his facts?

[yankees228]

That is not the question.

 

The question is, is it possible for Phil Hughes to pitch 150 innings this year even with the almghty awesomeness of the Yankee rotation that Jacko explains with all his facts?

 

Obviously it's possible, but I think you're also missing Jackson's point (and the one that he has been standing by since this debate has started in other threads). We both thing that it would be better for Hughes' long term success if he was starting every fifth day, and right now, the only place he can do is that is the minors. If someone gets hurt, which will happen at some point, Hughes can be recalled.

[Dipre]

Obviously it's possible' date=' but I think you're also missing Jackson's point (and the one that he has been standing by since this debate has started in other threads). We both thing that it would be better for Hughes' long term success if he was starting every fifth day, and right now, the only place he can do is that is the minors. If someone gets hurt, which will happen at some point, Hughes can be recalled.[/quote']

 

Again.

 

That was not the point.

 

You came here , guns blazing.

 

Jacko said there's not chance Hughes pitches 150 innings because CC is so awesome, Burnett is so awesome, blablabla.

 

But this is the point of the conversation, not wether you or him think he's better suited for AAA.

 

The question is, can he reach his innings projection for this year at the ML level?

 

Yes, he can.

 

That was the point of the argument, so don't try to spin it around to suit Jacko's stupidity.

[yankees228]

Again.

 

That was not the point.

 

You came here , guns blazing.

 

Jacko said there's not chance Hughes pitches 150 innings because CC is so awesome, Burnett is so awesome, blablabla.

 

But this is the point of the conversation, not wether you or him think he's better suited for AAA.

 

The question is, can he reach his innings projection for this year at the ML level?

 

Yes, he can.

 

That was the point of the argument, so don't try to spin it around to suit Jacko's stupidity.

 

I don't really think you can say I came here "guns blazing". I found my post to be respectful.

 

Again, if all you care about is what Jackson said about the innings, then fine, but I was just defending his overall viewpoint on the matter.

[Dipre]

I don't really think you can say I came here "guns blazing". I found my post to be respectful.

 

Again, if all you care about is what Jackson said about the innings, then fine, but I was just defending his overall viewpoint on the matter.

 

But the innings was the issue at hand.

 

So indeed, that's all i care about.

 

Viewing it from the innings perspective, it's obviously not only possible, but quite easily achieved as well.